WordAlone, Solid Rock Lutherans, and LCMC...

[RedneckAnglican]

Now, before I start...I think most of you know I stand with the WordAlone folks on a couple of issues (apostolic succession...openily G/L/B as Pastors...that sort of thing)...but I wanted some ELCA opinions of these groups...what have you folks heard or not heard?...are they actuallly trying to do what they say they are, or are they splinter group whack-jobs who want thier own synod of Lutheranism to play in?...

 

[Lutherrunner]

I guess I don't really know much, if anything, about that??????

 

[Protoevangel]

I'm a member of Word Alone, so I'm not qualified to answer your question.

 

[Protoevangel]

I guess I don't really know much, if anything, about that??????

http://wordalone.net/

http://www.sldrck.org/

http://lcmc.net/

 

[RedneckAnglican]

I'm a member of Word Alone, so I'm not qualified to answer your question.

I am, also...but the other groups...such as Solid rock...I don't know much about...and I found out Sunday that a Church that one of our fromer Pastors is at just joined the LCMC...this is something that I think our Church is going to start kicking around...and about 2 hours ago I was just put on the Church council...I'm filling a term that was vacated...

 

[Bollman]

I am a member of one of those LCMC slinter church. IMHO we entered down that path with true intentions. Most of the leaders from other LCMC churchs I have networked with are also urnest Christians doing what their hearts tell them to do. The funny thing is most folks in the seats don't know or care about alphabet names. They just want to be feed.

I still visit an ELCA church in my community on a regular basis and its funny, besides a sheet of paper in the entry way, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference. Same lessons, same devotional, same Worship Book, same hymns, same communion....etc.

-B

 

[RedneckAnglican]

I am a member of one of those LCMC slinter church. IMHO we entered down that path with true intentions. Most of the leaders from other LCMC churchs I have networked with are also urnest Christians doing what their hearts tell them to do. The funny thing is most folks in the seats don't know or care about alphabet names. They just want to be feed.

I still visit an ELCA church in my community on a regular basis and its funny, besides a sheet of paper in the entry way, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference. Same lessons, same devotional, same Worship Book, same hymns, same communion....etc.

-B

what I've pretty much been told is that most LCMC Churches are actually both...LCMC and ELCA...is there any truth to this that you have seen?...

 

[Bollman]

what I've pretty much been told is that most LCMC Churches are actually both...LCMC and ELCA...is there any truth to this that you have seen?...

From what I have see, No. We just called an ELCA pastor to our LCMC church and the bishops from the ELCA were furious. They told him if he left he was on his own and couldn't come back. I was on the call committee and saw the inner workings of the LCMC system, how their insurance package works for ministers etc. and it is all different business-wise from our old church group. Once you vote to leave you are out. I believe you can be Word Alone and ELCA. Our Church was World ALone before we made the jump a few years back.

We do still use all the devotional guides, VBS materials, worship books and such that we always did. We just have more local control over things (in theorgy).

-B

BTW, we did lose a small group of members that fought the break really hard. They have moved on to the other Lutheran church in our area.

 

[cableguy]

Has there been any back lash against Word Alone by any of the more liberal ELCA leadership? I was thinking about looking into Word Alone myself, but backed off a bit, since I'm pretty new at the whole Lutheranism thing.

 

[RedneckAnglican]

Has there been any back lash against Word Alone by any of the more liberal ELCA leadership? I was thinking about looking into Word Alone myself, but backed off a bit, since I'm pretty new at the whole Lutheranism thing.

that pretty much depends on wiether or not you are look ing at ordination or not...it also depends on your Church and synod...here is Texas there really doesn't seem to be that much WA presence...plus there are only 4 LCMC Chruches in Texas so that makes a difference...of course I live in South East Texas...If you go out to the "Hill Country" in central Texas (the Austin, San Antiono, New Braunsfels, Greune, Fredricksberg area) you could get a much different story...There are A LOT more Lutheran Churches out there then there are here...and I'm here to tell you...those folks take thier Lutheranism serious...not that the folks here don't...

 

[ctobola]

I think the ELCA leadership isn't happy about WA and LCMC, but I've never seen anything really overt.

I recall a public meeting where a member of the National Church Council noted that if WA supporters kept funds from coming into the ELCA headquarters in Chicago, they'd just be hurting the secretaries and lower-paid staff members, who would get pay cuts or be laid off. That went over like a lead balloon -- someone commented to the effect, "so you'll punish innocent people for a problem your stupidity created? The Presiding Bishop created this fiasco; why aren't the shortfalls coming entirely out of his salary?" This comment received a standing ovation.

Last I heard, congregations who are still in good standing in the ELCA can belong to or support LCMC. The LCMC allows them a "exit option" if they choose to drop their ELCA membership. Last I heard, the ELCA leadership was screaming about this -- they claimed that being affiliated with the LCMC was a conflict of interest -- but I haven't heard if anything official was ever done.

Some synod presidents (I hate the word bishop.) are supportive of WA, including Rick Foss in eastern North Dakoa.

-Cloy

Has there been any back lash against Word Alone by any of the more liberal ELCA leadership? I was thinking about looking into Word Alone myself, but backed off a bit, since I'm pretty new at the whole Lutheranism thing.

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

I've been to afew LCMC sites but I still don't know what their beliefs are. Is it just ELCA with a mission concept or what?

 

[ottaia]

My feeling about the Word Alone publication is that it seems very "vindictive." I always feel like at some point the writer is going to say, "And I'm going to take my ball and go home!" Maybe vindictive is not the word. Maybe I should say defensive.

 

[ctobola]

Radidio and Ottaia,

I was involved with Word Alone early on and I generally agree with its goal of reform within the ELCA.

When the Episcopal agreement was approved several years ago, I was quite involved. The homosexuality issue (especially ordination of practicing gay clergy) has become another key issue for Word Alone, but one that doesn't bother me the way it does others in the movement.

Many people felt that disagreements over the Episcopal issue were a liberal vs. conservative issue. I disagree with that. The Episcopal agreement forced ELCA pastors to buy into the historic episcopate -- which is contrary to Lutheran theology -- so the Episcopalians would accept our clergy. We never actually agreed to Episcopal theology, the ELCA leadership said we should just go through the motions to placate the Episcopalians.

That's wrong on so many levels, not just from a liberal or conservative perspective -- and the handling of the issue by ELCA leadership didn't help.

Generally, groups like WA presented the Episcopal/Lutheran agreement as a departure from the Confessions, because it forced the ELCA to agree that the historic episcopate was necessary to be considered part of the Church. This is a violation of the Confessions definition of the Church. (I appreciate that, but personally I'm still wrestling with the proper role of the Confessions.)

I think the homosexuality issue IS more oriented to a liberal / conservative debate. However, more fundamentally (and I've heard a number of conservative Lutherans say this too), the gay issue is one that should never have been raised -- it's an issue that can and should be handled locally because it's an emotional issue that can't be legislated for the whole denomination with any degree of thoughful or careful consideration. (Not surprisingly, many said the same thing about the Episcopal/Lutheran agreement -- it wasn't worth bringing up.)

That's my 2 cents on the matter.

Ottaia, can you tell me more about the things that struck you as vindicative in the WA publication?

-Cloy

I've been to afew LCMC sites but I still don't know what their beliefs are. Is it just ELCA with a mission concept or what?

My feeling about the Word Alone publication is that it seems very "vindictive." I always feel like at some point the writer is going to say, "And I'm going to take my ball and go home!" Maybe vindictive is not the word. Maybe I should say defensive.

 

[ottaia]

I will have to find a copy of one around the church. It may be a while because I will be incomunicado (if i misspelled it, sue me )for the week.