"Word of Faith" -- is it true or false doctrine?

[Jesus is Coming Soon!!!]

I was watching a Christian TV show where someone was using positive confession. She stated over and over out loud, "I have a beach-front Condo and it's all paid for" and it actually eventually became true, according to her testimony. This sounds like "Word of Faith" teaching. I noticed on this forum that Charismatic forum is split into Word of Faith (WOF) and non word of faith.

In recent years I have come to realize that the Charismatics/ Spirit Filled churches really do have more power from the Holy Spirit, after I started going to an Assemblies of God church 3 years ago. However I know about Word of Faith teachers on TV who are Charismatics but with a slightly different twist in their doctrine. That you can make positive confessions of faith (like the beach-front condo) and these confessions can come true, sort of like name it and claim it. I am wondering if it is false teaching or if it's true. I think Ken Haggin is WOF and he talks about speaking in tongues/ spirit baptism. I know that tongues is something real, but if Ken Haggin WOF, does that mean his teaching is from the devil? Also I have watched Joel Osteen and I know he teaches some false doctrine because he does not mention sin very much and one time I heard him say that 99.9% of people are good people and they have good hearts whereas the Bible says that the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things.

 

[Messy]

I was watching a Christian TV show where someone was using positive confession. She stated over and over out loud, "I have a beach-front Condo and it's all paid for" and it actually eventually became true, according to her testimony. This sounds like "Word of Faith" teaching. I noticed on this forum that Charismatic forum is split into Word of Faith (WOF) and non word of faith.

In recent years I have come to realize that the Charismatics/ Spirit Filled churches really do have more power from the Holy Spirit, after I started going to an Assemblies of God church 3 years ago. However I know about Word of Faith teachers on TV who are Charismatics but with a slightly different twist in their doctrine. That you can make positive confessions of faith (like the beach-front condo) and these confessions can come true, sort of like name it and claim it. I am wondering if it is false teaching or if it's true. I think Ken Haggin is WOF and he talks about speaking in tongues/ spirit baptism. I know that tongues is something real, but if Ken Haggin WOF, does that mean his teaching is from the devil? Also I have watched Joel Osteen and I know he teaches some false doctrine because he does not mention sin very much and one time I heard him say that 99.9% of people are good people and they have good hearts whereas the Bible says that the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things.

My ex went to a Word of Faith Bibleschool. Some things, according healing, the teaching is really good, but what you describe not in my opinion and there were more things that were not good, I don't know which, but that's what he said. So test everything and keep the good.

 

[Yitzchak]

I think that the basic idea of word of faith is true. That idea being that we should have faith in God and base what we believe on His word.



What people do with that is another question. In my opinion , one thing that has caused a lot of problems for the movement is immaturity. Both in the leadership and in the adherents of the movement. Also , just like any other denomination , associating one self with the movement does not mean that a person really lives and believes it's teachings.


But I have met a lot of solid word of faith people over the years also.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

 

[Faulty]

I was part of that for well over 15 years and I consider it the darkest time of my life and my greatest mistake to date. My teachers were primarily Hagin, the Copelands and Fred Price. Today, these people don't rate as teachers of any sort with me and I consider their path as pure garbage.

The good that came out of it was the lesson to give no teacher a pass, to not fear to reject what I'm told if there is such a need, and to pursue truth in doctrine for myself as if my life and eternal reward depended on it, because it does.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Just a reminder that judgement will come upon people in the same manner in which they judge

 

[Simon_Templar]

I was watching a Christian TV show where someone was using positive confession. She stated over and over out loud, "I have a beach-front Condo and it's all paid for" and it actually eventually became true, according to her testimony. This sounds like "Word of Faith" teaching. I noticed on this forum that Charismatic forum is split into Word of Faith (WOF) and non word of faith.

In recent years I have come to realize that the Charismatics/ Spirit Filled churches really do have more power from the Holy Spirit, after I started going to an Assemblies of God church 3 years ago. However I know about Word of Faith teachers on TV who are Charismatics but with a slightly different twist in their doctrine. That you can make positive confessions of faith (like the beach-front condo) and these confessions can come true, sort of like name it and claim it. I am wondering if it is false teaching or if it's true. I think Ken Haggin is WOF and he talks about speaking in tongues/ spirit baptism. I know that tongues is something real, but if Ken Haggin WOF, does that mean his teaching is from the devil? Also I have watched Joel Osteen and I know he teaches some false doctrine because he does not mention sin very much and one time I heard him say that 99.9% of people are good people and they have good hearts whereas the Bible says that the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things.

I suspect most WoF people wouldn't be as extreme as the person you describe "confessing" that they have beach front property.
That said I don't really agree with most distinctive teachings of WoF.

In my opinion, what the person you describe was practicing was neither faith nor prayer, but rather magic.

 

[TamaraLynne]

Of course we all know about seeking Gods kingdom and we should not worry about food or clothes because God knows we have need of these things...naming and claiming these items seems a bit odd to me but I can see they are not worried about those things but rather trying for increase?

I totally believe in asking for anything of God that is spiritual and good and would be edifying to the body of Christ...but I have in the past prayed for a way to pay my bills and to get a home...maybe my prayer was because I forgot and had little faith?

I know God wants us to decree our mornings...which would be his promises to us...understanding and believing the promises would give us all the more to decree

 

[murjahel]

Spirit Filled / Charismatic Debate
A subforum where WOF and non-WOF may discuss their different theological ideas.

This forum was to be void of this over and over debate... so they created a forum for it to be debated... see above...

 

[rockytopva]

I am Word of Faith without being Word of Faith. I mean, how can you read the Gospels and not see the significance of Faith? What worries me about the Word of Faith movement is that they are too focused on the dollar.

 

[hislegacy]

Spirit Filled / Charismatic Debate
A subforum where WOF and non-WOF may discuss their different theological ideas.

This forum was to be void of this over and over debate... so they created a forum for it to be debated... see above...

QFT

 

[Jedi.Kep]

I was watching a Christian TV show where someone was using positive confession. She stated over and over out loud, "I have a beach-front Condo and it's all paid for" and it actually eventually became true, according to her testimony. This sounds like "Word of Faith" teaching. I noticed on this forum that Charismatic forum is split into Word of Faith (WOF) and non word of faith.

No. No. A thousand times no. Kenneth Hagin would quickly shoot that down about confessing whatever you wanted. I can remember him speaking about someone confessing for "10 million oil wells" and his correction concerning such an error. One can only confess what the Word of God promises. Clearly, the Word of God does not promise anyone a beach front condo.

In recent years I have come to realize that the Charismatics/ Spirit Filled churches really do have more power from the Holy Spirit, after I started going to an Assemblies of God church 3 years ago.

A good observation.

However I know about Word of Faith teachers on TV who are Charismatics but with a slightly different twist in their doctrine. That you can make positive confessions of faith (like the beach-front condo) and these confessions can come true, sort of like name it and claim it.

Again, if we are talking about Kenneth Hagin, then he would emphasize that confession MUST be based upon the Word of the Lord God.

I am wondering if it is false teaching or if it's true.

Confessing for whatever you want? False.

Confessing and claiming the promise of God which is based upon His Holy Word? True.

I think Ken Hagin is WOF

He was and still is labeled the father of the faith movement by his critics. I do not believe he ever liked this title.

and he talks about speaking in tongues/ spirit baptism.

Yes. Many books on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.

I know that tongues is something real, but if Ken Hagin WOF, does that mean his teaching is from the devil?

You'll get every answer on this one. Some will absolutely insist that Hagin was filled with Satan and others who will absolutely insist he was a great man of God.

Also I have watched Joel Osteen and I know he teaches some false doctrine because he does not mention sin very much and one time I heard him say that 99.9% of people are good people and they have good hearts whereas the Bible says that the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things.

I have a hard time lumping Joel Osteen in with Word of Faith. He's great at being positive, encouraging others, and focusing on the good.

 

[murjahel]

Spirit Filled / Charismatic Debate
A subforum where WOF and non-WOF may discuss their different theological ideas.

This forum was to be void of this over and over debate... so they created a forum for it to be debated... see above...

As I see it, there is an agenda to ignore the 'debate' thread, for no one seems to want to go there to debate... they want to debate where there is a bigger audience...

to disregard rules shows us something about the debaters however.. it does not help their argument in my book...

anyone else tired of being exploited for an audience to their debate techniques?

 

[jiminpa]

Actually this seems like a pretty balanced discussion, and not a debate at all, but yes it is against the rules in this forum, and for good reason. Still I love to see it when a discussion like this is as civil as it is.

 

[REPHAIAHPEDAHEL]

You confess because it is already so! You don't confess to make it so.

 

[Alive_Again]

Nothing wrong with answering a good question. It does not have to make for a debate...

She stated over and over out loud, "I have a beach-front Condo and it's all paid for" and it actually eventually became true, according to her testimony. This sounds like "Word of Faith" teaching.

If God told her He gave her a beach front condo, then she can say this. If she just cooked this up, then she is in a ditch.

You can see through the "eye of faith". It is a form of vision where God shows you some land that is yours for the taking. If He shows you this and you want to take it on, that is entirely scriptural. God would already know your heart condition and what you would use it for. If He wanted you to appropriate it by faith, then you could do as Abraham did and believe God, call those things which be not as though they were. That would be scriptural too. You'd likely have to wait with patience and keep saying the same thing.

The problem is, many people espousing word of faith (at one time at least) got into presumption and started claiming all sorts of stuff (often for their own lusts). God did not show them it was theirs and they took the "ask and you shall receive thing" and disconnected it from "If you abide in Me and My Words abide in you". If you're abiding in the vine,you'll have His holy desires. These things He wants you to have. The enemy would love for you to disregard "Word of Faith" because of the mistakes of people like these.

There is a level of privilege God has purchased for His people that can only be fully realized by learning how to move by faith. If there are those who are offended by the flakes and lose sight of the revelation, they will not attain to the privilege (all by grace).

You can imagine how foolish Abram looked when he was old and started calling himself Abraham. Maybe there was a group that might have called him "Word of Faith"!

I have heard God speak through Kenneth Hagin so many times, God DID get His point across. He told him to teach His people faith, and he was mightily anointed in doing it. He made his mistakes, and he readily talked about them.

He spent over a decade in the permissive will of God and only then entered into the first phase of God's ministry for him. He went around and told everyone that he had missed it (loving and serving God all the while).

He told everyone when he failed (as a prophet) to deliver a word and immediately had serious heart problems. He had to confess and repent before he got healed.

He told everyone that he did not give heed to Jesus' warning about preparing financially for a hard time, and Jesus told him he would endure some suffering for a while as a result of it. He spoke of these things so the church could benefit from his mistakes.

He got out of the will of God and broke his arm. He told everyone about this too. Jesus appeared to him during this time. He readily spoke of his mistakes and successes for the benefit of the church.

He undertook more persecution from God's own people than most people and is being richly rewarded for it now. He is still being persecuted.

The anointing in his meetings (I've been to 3) were wonderful and powerful. He tells you to keep your eyes on the Lord and obey His Word.To learn to move with the Spirit of God. One day, I'm going to tell him how much I appreciated his ministry, and how God used him mightily in my life.

If you dare to look aside from people who seem kooky and keep your eyes on Jesus, you'll sense His Spirit move when you hear anointed faith teaching. You'll be able to discern good from evil and not dismiss things because others kept their eyes on the kooks and missed the blessing and the revelation.

 

[Biblicist]

Spirit Filled / Charismatic Debate
A subforum where WOF and non-WOF may discuss their different theological ideas.

This forum was to be void of this over and over debate... so they created a forum for it to be debated... see above...

I've kept out of this thread myself as it should have been submitted to a more appropriate forum.

 

[WileyCoyote]

If WOF is false doctrine, then I am in BIG trouble.

 

[Yitzchak]

If WOF is false doctrine, then I am in BIG trouble.

The trouble with saying that Word of faith is true or false is that word of faith is a somewhat general and vague term. With everyone defining it differently , it is hard to pin down.

I say , in it's basic form , word of faith is a Christian Charismatic movement and as such is definitely true. But with that said , one must also remember that within that general category . there are all kinds of things that go on in the name of word of faith.

I think one can say the same thing about Christianity. With all the diversity under the general heading of Christian , different people can define what is Christian very differently.

I do not put much stock in the anecdotal evidence presented by many. It usually goes something like this " I knew a guy who was word of faith and he was a jerk...." . Pretty much the same as someone saying " I knew a guy who was a Christian and he was a jerk.... " That is pretty vague and does not represent all Christians. So I do not put much stock in those types of arguments.

I say if a person wants to know , then go and visit some actual word of faith churches for themselves. They might be surprised at what they find.

 

[hislegacy]

I was part of that for well over 15 years and I consider it the darkest time of my life and my greatest mistake to date. My teachers were primarily Hagin, the Copelands and Fred Price. Today, these people don't rate as teachers of any sort with me and I consider their path as pure garbage.

The good that came out of it was the lesson to give no teacher a pass, to not fear to reject what I'm told if there is such a need, and to pursue truth in doctrine for myself as if my life and eternal reward depended on it, because it does.

Here's what I find interesting. Above is Faultys view. I think Faulty is an intelligent, honest God fearing man. I have respect for him and appreciate his input, though I don't tell him often enough that I do.

I think his reply is genuine and honest.

It is also the polar opposite of my thoughts and view.

I would have to reply something along these lines:

I have been part of that for well over 25 years and I consider it the greatest, most illuminating time of my life and one my greatest blessings to date. My teachers were primarily Dad Hagin, Doug Jones and Keith Moore. Today, these people dstill speak into my life and I consider their path as a pure balance of the Word and Spirit.

The good that came out of it was the close personal relationship I have come to have with Jesus Christ. Learning to live a righteous and Holy life through a love that passes understanding, And the countless lives that have been touched.​

So there's the issue:

One life changed forever and blessed and the other not.

 

[mourningdove~]

So there's the issue:

One life changed forever and blessed and the other not.

So, how do you explain this?

I ask because this sort of thing happens often in Christianity ...
where one believer finds blessing and growth 'here' (wherever 'here' might be), and another definitely does not.
The other finds his or her blessing on a much different path.

... and yet, BOTH are born again believers and committed followers of Jesus Christ.

How do you explain it?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, since you've pointed out a situation that isn't rare at all amongst Christians.