Women's Restrictions?

[LilLamb219]

On another thread Flipper wrote: I wish there were more female WELS members on here. I would love to hear their take on the more severe restrictions on women.

I don't go to a WELS church, but my female cousin does. Could you please tell me what kinds of restrictions there are? Especiall the "severe" ones. Thanks!

 

[Flipper]

Thanks for starting this!

My understanding is that women have no voting rights on church affairs, nor can they hold office (I'm not talking elders, but the board of directors, treasurer, etc.). I'm just curious as to how women feel about this.

 

[LilLamb219]

OIC

Thanks for clarifying.

Well, I don't know how the women in the WELS churches feel about it, but as a lady in a LCMS church, I prefer not to vote and to not hold any office unless it's in the Ladies Society group or another small committee (which is mostly run by ladies anyway).

 

[filosofer]

The old standard about no women voters was: Men sat on one side, women sat on the other during worship. Voters' Meetings were held immediately following, so they remained, as did the women, although they silent. The men would discuss freely, but when it came time to vote, the men all looked at their wives, the wives would nod, and the men would vote accordingly.

In my first call as pastor, I served a dual parish (LCMS) - one congregation had women voters, the other did not. When there was a joint voters' meeting, the women from the one congregation could vote, the women from the other could not.

Interestingly, the congregation with women voters also had the most spiritually mature men for congregational leaders. The elders knew the Bible, knew what it was to be Lutheran, and desired to reach the lost for Christ. The congregation with no women voters struggled for male leadership. Sad but true. Over a period of years of my teaching Bible studies requiring elders to attend, the men finally began to growth in the faith. It took time, but the results were well worth it.

 

[catzinjammies]

We were WELS for 6 years (another story for another day p'raps) and I was never bothered by the no vote/no office rules. I had just left an LCMS church that had been feminized beyond recognition and was ready for some strong male leadership in a church. The pastor questioned me about how I would feel about such rules, and I told him that I trusted God to guide the men of that church to do His will, so not a problem for me. We ultimately left WELS for other reasons, but not because I was not allowed to vote.

CIJ

 

[Jim47]

We were WELS for 6 years (another story for another day p'raps) and I was never bothered by the no vote/no office rules. I had just left an LCMS church that had been feminized beyond recognition and was ready for some strong male leadership in a church. The pastor questioned me about how I would feel about such rules, and I told him that I trusted God to guide the men of that church to do His will, so not a problem for me. We ultimately left WELS for other reasons, but not because I was not allowed to vote.

CIJ

Hi CIJ


May I ask if it was the fellowship rules with other organizations that caused you to leave?

 

[ByzantineDixie]

Hi CIJ


May I ask if it was the fellowship rules with other organizations that caused you to leave?

About the only time I ever wish I was WELS is during Voters' meetings. I am thinking how cool it would be to gather up all my church women friends have have a shopping spree...while the men sit back at church and argue over budgets, facility repairs and the carpet color in the Sancturary.

Woohoo...who knew there could be such liberation in WELS!

(Jim...just joking with you...OK not joking. I actually would do this if I were WELS. At a minimum we'd go out for lattes!)

 

[Flipper]

About the only time I ever wish I was WELS is during Voters' meetings. I am thinking how cool it would be to gather up all my church women friends have have a shopping spree...while the men sit back at church and argue over budgets, facility repairs and the carpet color in the Sancturary.

Woohoo...who knew there could be such liberation in WELS!

(Jim...just joking with you...OK not joking. I actually would do this if I were WELS. At a minimum we'd go out for lattes!)

Part of me would be right there with you... up until some program there that I thought was beneficial got cut. I'd much rather have the responsibility of voting, so if a program got cut, I would understand exactly why, after ALL present members voted.

When I was RCC, none of the parishnors had much in voting rights, men or women. The priests and the diocese made our decisions. One of the neatest experiences I ever had after becoming a member was 2 weeks later, when I could vote in a member's meeting. That in itself was liberating.

 

[catzinjammies]

Hi CIJ


May I ask if it was the fellowship rules with other organizations that caused you to leave?

Hi Jim, in the end, yes, that rule started a pebble to roll that became a boulder which crashed right through our church, splitting it. The particular church we attended was borderline Amish in it's exclusivity. The legalistic stance of the president of the congregation left no room to spread the word of God. The whole story is long and rather sad, p'raps I'll elaborate sometime...earlier in the day for sure! I must retire since my 4:30 am wake up is coming too quickly!!!

CIJ

 

[Jim47]

Hi Jim, in the end, yes, that rule started a pebble to roll that became a boulder which crashed right through our church, splitting it. The particular church we attended was borderline Amish in it's exclusivity. The legalistic stance of the president of the congregation left no room to spread the word of God. The whole story is long and rather sad, p'raps I'll elaborate sometime...earlier in the day for sure! I must retire since my 4:30 am wake up is coming too quickly!!!

CIJ

We recently did a bible study on that and it is very hard to understand and it requires a lot of understanding. The thing is Mission work can still be done, it just needs to be done without agreeing with their doctrines.

 

[Protoevangel]

About the only time I ever wish I was WELS is during Voters' meetings. I am thinking how cool it would be to gather up all my church women friends have have a shopping spree...while the men sit back at church and argue over budgets, facility repairs and the carpet color in the Sancturary.

Woohoo...who knew there could be such liberation in WELS!

(Jim...just joking with you...OK not joking. I actually would do this if I were WELS. At a minimum we'd go out for lattes!)

I think that if the so-called "restrictions" were as bad as they are often made out to be (not here, necessarily), you would be in the kitchen making lattes for the men... and snacks too... barefoot!

Not that that would be a bad thing... (See, I'm just still scared to say that anyone might potentially be wrong about anything!)

 

[ByzantineDixie]

I think that if the so-called "restrictions" were as bad as they are often made out to be (not here, necessarily), you would be in the kitchen making lattes for the men... and snacks too... barefoot!

OK...that really does change the complexion of everything. On second thought maybe choosing that carpet color isn't such a bad idea after all!

Not that that would be a bad thing... (See, I'm just still scared to say that anyone might potentially be wrong about anything!)

Yes, please remember you are from the "other side". You are not permitted to use the word "wrong" here. You are only permitted to post sweet fellowship posts here telling us what great people we are, or asking us questions we can answer so we feel important and loved or admiring us for the "we are right, you are wrong" stance we take on all things. Ah....some days the gift of sarcastic tongues bears more fruit than others.

Dan...ya know you are OK in my book and I won't even blink twice if you say the word "wrong".

 

[Jim47]

I think that if the so-called "restrictions" were as bad as they are often made out to be (not here, necessarily), you would be in the kitchen making lattes for the men... and snacks too... barefoot!

Not that that would be a bad thing... (See, I'm just still scared to say that anyone might potentially be wrong about anything!)

There are a couple Bible verses that refer to this, and I can only think of this one for right now.

Maybe you'all can help me out?

Ro 14:1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.

 

[Jim47]

Still looking for help with those Bible verses.


I did however think of another way to explain what I was trying to say.

The beliefs that WELS have concerning fellowship with other organizations is indeed hard to understand, I'm not sure I'm fully capable myself, but what I was trying to say is I believe it requires a very throuough Bible study "and" subjecting yourself to God's Word concering these things and putting aside our human emotions and reasoning.

The love God put in our hearts makes us want to share with everyone the special gift He has given us, but what He doesn't want is for us to join in beliefs with these people.

An OT example is the Children of Israel taking on the pagan beliefs of the countries they took over. Please understand, I am not saying that other Lutheran churches are all wrong, I just believe that God wants us to hold on to His teachings anstead of conforming to the world.

My apologies if I offended anyone as that was not my intention.

 

[ByzantineDixie]

Please understand, I am not saying that other Lutheran churches are all wrong,

That's OK, Jim, as a WELS, since this is your "safe house" forum, too, I believe you can use the "W" word without negative repercussions.

Now it has been my experience that while WELS does teach "no prayer with those outside the fellowship" many of the laity actually do not adhere very well to this rule. For example...at the big family Thanksgiving dinner, they will usually pray with non-WELS family members. But I admit I have had limited exposure and my anecdotal information may not represent the body at large.

 

[ChiRho]

That's OK, Jim, as a WELS, since this is your "safe house" forum, too, I believe you can use the "W" word without negative repercussions.

Now it has been my experience that while WELS does teach "no prayer with those outside the fellowship" many of the laity actually do not adhere very well to this rule. For example...at the big family Thanksgiving dinner, they will usually pray with non-WELS family members. But I admit I have had limited exposure and my anecdotal information may not represent the body at large.

Before praying for a meal, I will ask those dining with me (and Alisha) if they believe that they are sinners deserving of Hell, but redeemed by Christ alone. I have gotten some funny stares, awkward answers and even some walk-outs, but it is better than praying with ungodly people. Apparently, Christianity is not en vogue.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

 

[Flipper]

I'm betting you aren't very fun at dinner parties.

 

[SPALATIN]

I'm betting you aren't very fun at dinner parties.

ya think?

 

[ChiRho]

Hey, if you wanna pray like Benke, go ahead. Just don't waste your time, ink, or paper on my invitation to that kind of dinner party. I wont be coming.

"Article IV or ya motha's a (word meaning one prone to prostitution; rhymes with store)!"

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

 

[Flipper]

"That" kind of dinner party? What kind of a dinner party would that be, Chi Chi? I don't follow.