Why the weekly Sabbath (Saturday) is the Lord's Day, in the Bible

[BobRyan]

From the OP

BobRyan said:

In the Bible the weekly Sabbath is Saturday - the 7th day of the week. From Friday Evening to Saturday evening.

And Ex 16 "tomorrow is the Sabbath" so that Ex 20 "remember the Sabbath day... the seventh day is the Sabbath of YHWH" has the context of God pointing it out right down to the day for them.

Your idea that God does not know how to do that in the case of a rotating planet and a light source on one side - is one of your own topics. It is not this one.

So... is that Friday when the human government in your area says that it's Friday

God said "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath" in Ex 16. All your rabbit trails fall apart at that point because not only do you not understand the Gen 1 text (apparently) but you are missing the fact that God saying "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath" wipes out all your rabbit trails.

, or do the scriptures give a way of calculating?

Yes - the Bible says it is from evening to evening.

If you live near the poles and there is no sunset

That is your rabbit trail - not my topic and very few Christians today will claim that there were some confused rabbits at the poles when Adam experienced his first day which came with his first Sabbath that started on the evening at the close of his first day according to Gen 1.

 

[BobRyan]

"Tomorrow is the Sabbath" Ex 16

Is the idea that it's not critical to God when the seventh day starts

Is this a reading comprehension problem then??

, the important thing is just to pick a 24-hour period every seven 24-hour periods?

"Tomorrow is the Sabbath" Ex 16

All Israel had it on "the very day" for 40 years -- no manna on that day as opposed to "pick any one day in 7 you like".

What part of this is the least bit difficult to understand????

 

[Leaf473]

Good luck with your preferred topic in that new thread of yours. This one is on the Sabbath and the LORD's Day as per the OP.

This is how the OP starts. You may have been intending something different, but this is what it says.

In the Bible the weekly Sabbath is Saturday - the 7th day of the week. From Friday Evening to Saturday evening.

It's just you and I talking right now, Bob, my man. I was assuming we would stop a while back. But if you keep writing to me, I'll probably keep writing back

 

[Leaf473]

And Ex 16 "tomorrow is the Sabbath" so that Ex 20 "remember the Sabbath day... the seventh day is the Sabbath of YHWH" has the context of God pointing it out right down to the day for them.

Do you take that to mean that just east of Sinai it was still the sixth day, effectively putting the scriptural dateline there at Sinai?

Your idea that God does not know how to do that in the case of a rotating planet and a light source on one side - is one of your own topics. It is not this one.

That's not my idea

God said "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath" in Ex 16. All your rabbit trails fall apart at that point because not only do you not understand the Gen 1 text (apparently) but you are missing the fact that God saying "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath" wipes out all your rabbit trails.

Tomorrow where? Do the scriptures say?

Yes - the Bible says it is from evening to evening.

Evening to evening where?

That is your rabbit trail - not my topic and very few Christians today will claim that there were some confused rabbits at the poles when Adam experienced his first day which came with his first Sabbath that started on the evening at the close of his first day according to Gen 1.

Very few Christians think about it because the vast majority aren't concerned about a 24-hour Sabbath, and those that are just use the human-established international date line. Is there a scriptural basis for it? I'm thinking probably not, but I appreciate your input

A random proverb or two
Don’t weary yourself to be rich.
In your wisdom, show restraint.
Why do you set your eyes on that which is not?
For it certainly sprouts wings like an eagle and flies in the sky.

 

[Leaf473]

"Tomorrow is the Sabbath" Ex 16


Is this a reading comprehension problem then??

"Tomorrow is the Sabbath" Ex 16

All Israel had it on "the very day" for 40 years -- no manna on that day as opposed to "pick any one day in 7 you like".

What part of this is the least bit difficult to understand????

It's not difficult for me to understand. Israel was in a very small location at that time.

Today, there are Christians all around the world. Do the scriptures say how to calculate "tomorrow" outside of the Sinai?

To put it a different way, do the scriptures say where sunset of the sixth day becomes sunset of the seventh day? Or if you prefer to talk about a rotating object instead of sunset, how many degrees of rotation of the Earth relative to the Sun begins the seventh day?

A random proverb
Wine is a mocker and beer is a brawler.
Whoever is led astray by them is not wise.

 

[BobRyan]

It's not difficult for me to understand. Israel was in a very small location at that time.

Agreed. God was still God but Israel was located in the Middle East.

Today, there are Christians all around the world.

True. And this thread is about the BIBLE concept that the weekly Sabbath is the LORD's day "the Holy Day of the Lord". Is 58:13
It is also dealing with the fact that no other day in the Bible is designated that way.
Where "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Do you see how this idea is in the OP and in the title for this thread??

Do the scriptures say how to calculate "tomorrow"

yes "from evening to evening shall you celebrate your Sabbath" Lev 23:32

Do you see how it is that almost everyone on this board knows what "Tomorrow" is in context with that Lev 23:32 statement? Evening.
Everyone knows what sunset is -- so not nearly as confusing as you suppose this simple concept to be.
Does that look as obvious to you as it does to me?

To put it a different way, do the scriptures say where sunset of the sixth day becomes sunset of the seventh day? Or if you prefer to talk about a rotating object instead of sunset

1. it is because the planet rotates that we have sunset - as it turns out. I did not know this would be "news". Everyone knows what sunset is.
2. The fact that sunset is at 8:52 for me and at some other time on this same day of the week for someone else in the world does NOT change my evening time in the LEAST...

Does that look as obvious to you as it does to me?

How is this in the least bit confusing for you??

 

[BobRyan]

Do you take that to mean that just east of Sinai

take any point on Earth ... "east of that position" is always in the direction that the sun rises because the sun always appears to "rise" in the direction that Earth is rotating.

Is this detail even a little bit confusing in your POV?
Does this obvious fact matter if one is standing in the the Middle East or if they are standing in Seattle in your POV?
Are you considering moving your off-topic topic to its own thread?

Evening to evening where?

Are you familiar with the concept "frame of reference"??

People in China have "evening" without first having to ask about Leaf473 and whether he is having evening as well.
Does this not appear very obvious to you?

 

[Leaf473]

Agreed. God was still God but Israel was located in the Middle East.

True. And this thread is about the BIBLE concept that the weekly Sabbath is the LORD's day "the Holy Day of the Lord". Is 58:13
It is also dealing with the fact that no other day in the Bible is designated that way.
Where "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Do you see how this idea is in the OP and in the title for this thread??

I see several ideas in the OP, and yes, that's one of them

yes "from evening to evening shall you celebrate your Sabbath" Lev 23:32

On a rotating object with a light source on one side, how many degrees of rotation marks the change of evening of the 6th of the day to evening of the 7th Day?

Do you see how it is that almost everyone on this board knows what "Tomorrow" is in context with that Lev 23:32 statement? Evening.
Everyone knows what sunset is -- so not nearly as confusing as you suppose this simple concept to be.
Does that look as obvious to you as it does to me?

That's because most people use the international date line established by human governments. Is that what the scriptures say to do when it comes to the seventh day?

1. it is because the planet rotates that we have sunset - as it turns out. I did not know this would be "news". Everyone knows what sunset is.

Not just sunset, but sunset of the sixth day becoming sunset of the seventh day. That's the issue

2. The fact that sunset is at 8:52 for me and at some other time on this same day of the week for someone else in the world does NOT change my evening time in the LEAST...

But it's not in the same day for everyone on this rotating object.

The international date line is very squiggly, such that the same sunset marks the beginning of the sixth day for some and the beginning of the seventh day for others. Put that international date line in the middle of the Atlantic, and it changes what day it is in the USA.

Does that look as obvious to you as it does to me?

No, because you're only looking at part of the issue. As this object rotates, there has to be a place - or a number of degrees - that mark the change from the beginning of the 6th day to the beginning of the 7th Day. Otherwise, it would always be the same day.

Many people use the international date line established by human governments. Is that what the scriptures say to do?

How is this in the least bit confusing for you??

Because I'm looking at the whole issue. It's not actually confusing, but it seems like an odd situation.
That's because most people who want to observe the seventh day are very suspicious of human governments changing days.

I can't tell if you actually understand what I'm saying and are just pretending not to, or if you honestly aren't grasping the issue

Peace be with you, my man!

 

[Leaf473]

take any point on Earth ... "east of that position" is always in the direction that the sun rises because the sun always appears to "rise" in the direction that Earth is rotating.

Here is the whole question:

Do you take that to mean that just east of Sinai it was still the sixth day, effectively putting the scriptural dateline there at Sinai?

The question is not about where the sun rises, but where the date line is in the scriptures.

When you leave out important parts of a question, it increases my suspicion that you actually understand the issue, and are trying to misrepresent it.

Is this detail even a little bit confusing in your POV?

No, it's not confusing at all. There has to be a place where sunset of the 6th day becomes sunset of the 7th Day. I'm pretty sure scriptures don't say where that is. But I'm asking and bringing the issue up just in case someone does know of something in the scriptures that indicates where this place is on Earth. Or, the number of degrees on this rotating object, if you prefer

Does this obvious fact matter if one is standing in the the Middle East or if they are standing in Seattle in your POV?

The sun rising in the East doesn't matter. But consider three locations: Manila, Sinai, Seattle. All three have seventh day observers in them. Does the seventh day begin in Manila before it begins in Sinai? And in Seattle? Does it begin before the seventh day begins in Sinai?

Did the scriptures say how to deal with this? Do the scriptures say to use the international date line that we currently have? Or are the scriptures silent on this?

Are you considering moving your off-topic topic to its own thread?

It's very much on topic:

From Friday Evening to Saturday evening.

It's only you and I talking about this right now. My plan on this thread, at least at this time, is to respond to you when you respond to me

Are you familiar with the concept "frame of reference"??

Yes.

People in China have "evening" without first having to ask about Leaf473 and whether he is having evening as well.
Does this not appear very obvious to you?

It appears very obvious to me. The people in China use the time and date established by their government. Do the scriptures say that the government in China has the authority to do that?

A random proverb
Don’t withhold good from those to whom it is due,
when it is in the power of your hand to do it.

 

[BobRyan]

Here is the whole question:

The question is not about where the sun rises, but where the date line is in the scriptures.

The answer is that it does not matter. As stated a few times already. When someone in Australia sees evening it does not matter to them what a rabbit near where you are located might see. The point is totally irrelevant. Adam and Eve were the first humans and they were created on day 6.

You have yet to show why your "other topic" matters to this one

When you leave out important parts of a question, it increases my suspicion that you actually understand the issue

Your imagination is impressive.

No, it's not confusing at all. There has to be a place where sunset of the 6th day becomes sunset of the 7th Day.

Not true for Adam and Eve.

Your point is still irrelevant. They were the only two humans on the planet. Their evening was at the point they crossed the fixed point in space that Earth must pass through to have evening.

I'm pretty sure scriptures don't say where that is.

since it would not matter.

 

[Leaf473]

The answer is that it does not matter. As stated a few times already. When someone in Australia sees evening it does not matter to them what a rabbit near where you are located might see. The point is totally irrelevant.

Should it matter to the people in Australia whether that sunset is marking the beginning of the sixth day or the beginning of the 7th?

Adam and Eve were the first humans and they were created on day 6.

Yes, and where did day 6 start? That is, the first place anywhere on Earth that it was day 6?

You have yet to show why your "other topic" matters to this one

From the OP

From Friday Evening to Saturday evening.

You can see it as irrelevant, that's your choice.

Your imagination is impressive.

Thank you

Not true for Adam and Eve.

Sure it is. There has to be a place where sunset of the 6th day becomes sunset of the 7th Day. That place could have been right where they were standing. But it had to be somewhere, otherwise it would have always been the sixth day.

Your point is still irrelevant.

You can choose to see it that way

They were the only two humans on the planet. Their evening was at the point they crossed the fixed point in space that Earth must pass through to have evening.

They are no longer the only two humans on the planet.

There are seventh day observers in Manila, Sinai, and Seattle. Do the scriptures say that people in Manila should start the 7th day before people in Sinai? The people in Seattle? Should they start the seventh day before the people in Manila?

since it would not matter.

It matters a great deal if people want to be observing the seventh day and not just a seventh day.

As talked about above, three different groups of people in different parts of the world. Do the scriptures say who should celebrate the seventh Day first?

Random passage, this time from Ecclesiastes
For all this I laid to my heart, even to explore all this: that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God; whether it is love or hatred, man doesn’t know it; all is before them.

 

[BobRyan]

Should it matter to the people in Australia whether that sunset is marking the beginning of the sixth day or the beginning of the 7th?

Adam and Eve were made on day 6. After all the animals were made on day 6.
So for the sake of discussing it is "noon" or 3pm when Adam is made.

God has been there all the time - He tells Adam it is day 6 and the 7th day will begin at sunset.

Exactly what part of this are you imagining is even the least bit confusing for Adam and Eve on day 6? That is the part I am missing.

Yes, and where did day 6 start?

Do you think they would ask that question? Given that God just told them that the days start at sunset??

If you construct your topic in a way that actually matters in this scenario - then I am interested in it.
Can you do that?

 

[BobRyan]

There are seventh day observers in Manila, Sinai, and Seattle. Do the scriptures say that people in Manila should start the 7th day before people in Sinai?

Does not matter since no bible text frames days of the week that way.

In the Bible each day is "evening to evening" sunset to sunset and not "Manilla to Sinai".

The people in Seattle? Should they start the seventh day before the people in Manila?'

In the Bible each day is "evening to evening" sunset to sunset and not "Seattle to Manilla".

God says "tomorrow is the Sabbath" in Ex 16.

not "tomorrow is the Sabbath in Manilla"

It matters a great deal if people want to be observing the seventh day and not just a seventh day.

God says "tomorrow is the Sabbath" in Ex 16.
For 40 yeas there was no manna on exactly the 7th day each week.

There is a reason that everyone has this right - the Jews and the Christians all know what day is the Bible Sabbath 7th day at Sinai. Even Muslims know it.

You should be able to see by now - how this off-topic topic of yours should go to its own thread.

 

[Leaf473]

Adam and Eve were made on day 6. After all the animals were made on day 6.
So for the sake of discussing it is "noon" or 3pm when Adam is made.

God has been there all the time - He tells Adam it is day 6 and the 7th day will begin at sunset.

Exactly what part of this are you imagining is even the least bit confusing for Adam and Eve on day 6? That is the part I am missing.

I don't think it was confusing for Adam and Eve. But they lived in a particular location. Today, seventh day observers live all around the world.

And I can see that there's no question if you live in Sinai. But if you live in Manila... Do you start the seventh day before or after those in Sinai?

Do the scriptures say? I don't think they do. Most seventh day observers go with what their governments have decided.

Do you think they would ask that question? Given that God just told them that the days start at sunset??

They wouldn't, but we do.

We were talking about people in Australia, and I phrased the question that way. But in your answer, you talk about Adam and Eve. So... The people in Australia? Or Manila?

If you construct your topic in a way that actually matters in this scenario - then I am interested in it.
Can you do that?

I believe I already have, Bob, my man!

"The sun also rises, and the sun goes down, and hurries to its place where it rises."
-Ecclesiastes

 

[Leaf473]

Does not matter since no bible text frames days of the week that way.

The part about no Bible text talks about it that way, that's what I'm thinking, too.

In the Bible each day is "evening to evening" sunset to sunset and not "Manilla to Sinai".

Well, if it's okay according to the scriptures to celebrate the seventh day in Manila after Sinai, then you would be celebrating it in what the government there calls Saturday evening to Sunday evening.

So if this thread title works just as well:
Why the weekly Sabbath (Sunday) is the Lord's Day, in the Bible

then you're right, it doesn't matter.

In the Bible each day is "evening to evening" sunset to sunset and not "Seattle to Manilla".

God says "tomorrow is the Sabbath" in Ex 16.

not "tomorrow is the Sabbath in Manilla"

That's what I'm getting at, the scriptures don't actually say what to do on a spherical Earth, this rotating object.

God says "tomorrow is the Sabbath" in Ex 16.
For 40 yeas there was no manna on exactly the 7th day each week.

Yes, and if we all lived in Sinai, there'd be no question.

There is a reason that everyone has this right - the Jews and the Christians all know what day is the Bible Sabbath 7th day at Sinai. Even Muslims know it.

Yes, they follow what their local governments have decided.

You should be able to see by now - how this off-topic topic of yours should go to its own thread.

Looks exactly on topic at this point. Saturday in the Sinai, but could be Sunday in other places.

A random proverb
That which has been is that which shall be; and that which has been done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

 

[Dahveed]

Heb 4:2 "the Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them" comparing NT saints to OT examples in Heb 11 and Heb 3

For indeed we have had the good news of salvation preached to us, just as the Israelites but the word did not benefit some, because they were not united in the faith;

Where there is no vision [no redemptive revelation of God], the people perish; Proverbs 29:18

Gal 1:6-9 "There is only one Gospel".. Gal 3:8 "the Gospel was preached to Abraham".

Walk in My presence and be without fault. Gen 17:1
Can two walk together unless they have made an agreement? Amos 3:3

You admonished them and warned them by Your Spirit through Your prophets; Num 9:30

Though the prophets call them to the One on high; Hosea 11:7 They made their hearts as hard as stone, lest they should hear the law; Zechariah 7:12

Honor God’s Son, lest you perish in the way— Blessed are those who trust in Him! Ps 2:12 Isa 2:3 For out of Zion shall go forth the law;
Heb 12:22-24 And the word from Jerusalem; Luke 24:47

1 Peter 1:13 informs is that their Gospel included "the sufferings of Christ AND the glories to follow" as it was given to them "by the Spirit of Christ IN THEM"

Concerning this divine blessing they sought and searched diligently about the grace that would come to you;
The Spirit of Christ was in them indicating how Christ would suffer and would then be glorified and given great honor. 1 Peter 1:10-11 Acts 3:18-21

Now notice that in Matt 17 we have both Elijah and Moses standing "with Christ" in glory, fully saved, fully forgiven.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Heb 13:5-9
Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.” Acts 3:24-26

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:
Heb 4:2 "the Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them" comparing NT saints to OT examples in Heb 11 and Heb 3

For indeed we have had the good news of salvation preached to us, just as the Israelites but the word did not benefit some, because they were not united in the faith;

Indeed "some" were not saved in the OT just as to this day "some" are not saved.

But Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory in Matt 17 - before the cross even happens.
Heb 11 - ALL the giants of faith held up as examples of gospel salvation to the NT saints in Heb 11 are OT saints.

 

[BobRyan]

There are seventh day observers in Manila, Sinai, and Seattle. Do the scriptures say that people in Manila should start the 7th day before people in Sinai?

Does not matter since no bible text frames days of the week that way.

In the Bible each day is "evening to evening" sunset to sunset and not "Manilla to Sinai".

The people in Seattle? Should they start the seventh day before the people in Manila?'

In the Bible each day is "evening to evening" sunset to sunset and not "Seattle to Manilla".

God says "tomorrow is the Sabbath" in Ex 16.

not "tomorrow is the Sabbath in Manilla"

It matters a great deal if people want to be observing the seventh day and not just a seventh day.

God says "tomorrow is the Sabbath" in Ex 16.
For 40 yeas there was no manna on exactly the 7th day each week.

There is a reason that everyone gets this right - the Jews and the Christians all know what day is the Bible Sabbath 7th day at Sinai. Even Muslims know it.

You should be able to see by now - how this off-topic topic of yours should go to its own thread.

The part about no Bible text talks about it that way, that's what I'm thinking, too.

The bible says each day is "from evening to evening" in Gen 1 and in Lev 23... period.

Your what-about-the rabbits "in Austrailia international-dateline at the time of Adam keeping the 7th day Sabbath" is just nonsense that you focus on for this thread - and is simply not an issue for this topic.

Well, if it's okay according to the scriptures to celebrate the seventh day in Manila

You need a point.

IN today's world - Christians and Jews agree on the days of the week where Saturday is day 7. Even in Manila

So if this thread title works just as well:
Why the weekly Sabbath (Sunday) is the Lord's Day, in the Bible

Only if you ignore all of reality.
In any case feel free to start your "7th day was never Saturday" thread where you argue that the Gospel reference to Christ raised on the first day of the week is really MONDAY. See how much traction your off-topic topic gets there because at least in that case - your discussion point will be ON topic.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't think it was confusing for Adam and Eve. But they lived in a particular location.

Then you have no argument. They had the correct seventh day in Gen 2:1-3,
Israel had the correct seventh day in Ex 16 and for 40 years each week when manna did not fall

And it did not matter what rabbits were seeing at evening on opposites sides of the earth since each day has evening and morning local to its location. period.

And I can see that there's no question if you live in Sinai. But if you live in Manila... Do you start the seventh day before or after those in Sinai?

Why does someone in Manila need to call people in Sinai in order to look up in the sky and see if the sun is setting???

Do the scriptures say? I don't think they do

They say "from evening to evening" is a day. period.

 

[Dahveed]

BobRyan said:
Heb 4:2 "the Gospel was preached to us just as it was to them" comparing NT saints to OT examples in Heb 11 and Heb 3

Indeed "some" were not saved in the OT just as to this day "some" are not saved.

But Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory in Matt 17 - before the cross even happens.
Heb 11 - ALL the giants of faith held up as examples of gospel salvation to the NT saints in Heb 11 are OT saints.

I will hear what God the Lord will speak, For He will speak peace To His people and to His saints. Psalm 85:7-9

And the saints of the Most High God will receive the kingdom. It will belong to them for ever and ever.

For the Lord preserves the faithful, And fully repays the proud.