The Danger of "Keeping Sabbath."

[Gary K]

Heb 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. Do you merely hum the tune in church when they sing "Blessed Assurance?" This should be good news for you and for everyone.

How many of our sins were laid upon Him?
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all. Is 53:6

No, it hasn't. It has been debunked in your imagination but not by scripture. You seem to think that God has a grading system, and if you can manage to get a high enough score, you will make it through the Pearly Gates. What is the standard? 90% and above? How much less than perfect is OK with God?

You should not teach power over sin when you still sin. I have noticed that you will not declare yourself sinless, yet you lay that burden upon others as if you were sinless. God has eradicated my sins, completely destroyed them, and condemned them in the flesh. Even though I am being sanctified, I am counted as perfect for all time because of Christ's Righteousness. He has eradicated yours also if you will grasp His gift by faith.

You don't understand the difference between not sinning and sinlessness? Sinlessness means I would have had to live my entire life without sin, you know, like Jesus. That would make make me God. You either deliberately misunderstand me or your powers of reasoning are sadly lacking.

To not sin means through developing a strong relationship with Jesus He enables me to not continue to sin. He makes us a partaker, as Peter says, of His divine nature. And His divine nature overcomes sin in our lives. But that does not clear our past record of sin.

I am counted as perfect too, but I'm not left to continue to suffer the consequences of continued sinning. You are. You will continue to lie to people, to cheat them, commit adultery, hate, etc... with all the negative consequences of those behaviors damaging your relationships with other people. Plus, and worst of all, your life will allow people to point at Christians and mock us as hypocrites. That's what the Pharisees were as Jesus called them that again and again. It's called having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof.

2Timothy 3: 1 THIS know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[Gary K]

@Mercy Shown

Here is what God told the people of Judah before Jerusalem was destroyed.

Jeremiah 1: 1 THE word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Stand in the gate of the Lord’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the Lord, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the Lord.
3 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place.
4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, are these.
5 For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;
6 If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:
7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.
8 ¶ Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.
9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;
10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

What you're telling me is that it is impossible to not oppress the the stranger, the fatherless, the widow and not shed innocent blood. And that it is also impossible to not steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, worship idols and follow other gods other than the God, and then stand before Him and say I am delivered to do all these abominations.

This is very sad.

 

[Mercy Shown]

You don't understand the difference between not sinning and sinlessness? Sinlessness means I would have had to live my entire life without sin, you know, like Jesus. That would make make me God. You either deliberately misunderstand me or your powers of reasoning are sadly lacking.

To not sin means through developing a strong relationship with Jesus He enables me to not continue to sin. He makes us a partaker, as Peter says, of His divine nature. And His divine nature overcomes sin in our lives. But that does not clear our past record of sin.

You are tacitly claiming that you no longer sin. Is this what you meant? Are you saying that you no longer commit sins.

 

[Mercy Shown]

I am counted as perfect too, but I'm not left to continue to suffer the consequences of continued sinning. You are. You will continue to lie to people, to cheat them, commit adultery, hate, etc... with all the negative consequences of those behaviors damaging your relationships with other people. Plus, and worst of all, your life will allow people to point at Christians and mock us as hypocrites. That's what the Pharisees were as Jesus called them that again and again. It's called having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof.

You are confusing the love of sin with of the born-again hate for sin. When we turn away from sin to walk after the spirit we no longer practicing e sin but we do stumble and fall in sin on occasion. Some sins are more difficult to overcome than others but the more that Gods dwelling in us gives us the victory as we walk after the spirit the more is revealed that’s why it’s a war.

But the good news is we are perfected forever by Christ one sacrifice while still being made holy or sanctified if you will. It’s such a blessed and wonderful message for those that are struggling and discouraged it is life and hope.

 

[Gary K]

You are tacitly claiming that you no longer sin. Is this what you meant? Are you saying that you no longer commit sins.

Only rarely. Sinning is no longer a big part of my life. It was a major part of my life for decades. The devil had control of large areas of my life. He no longer does. The change in me is amazing and I take no credit for any of it. It's all God's work in me.

 

[Gary K]

You are confusing the love of sin with of the born-again hate for sin. When we turn away from sin to walk after the spirit we no longer practicing e sin but we do stumble and fall in sin on occasion. Some sins are more difficult to overcome than others but the more that Gods dwelling in us gives us the victory as we walk after the spirit the more is revealed that’s why it’s a war.

But the good news is we are perfected forever by Christ one sacrifice while still being made holy or sanctified if you will. It’s such a blessed and wonderful message for those that are struggling and discouraged it is life and hope.

Then why do you claim sinning can not be overcome?

 

[Mercy Shown]

@Mercy Shown

Here is what God told the people of Judah before Jerusalem was destroyed.

Jeremiah 1: 1 THE word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Stand in the gate of the Lord’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the Lord, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the Lord.
3 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place.
4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, are these.
5 For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;
6 If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:
7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.
8 ¶ Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.
9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;
10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

What you're telling me is that it is impossible to not oppress the the stranger, the fatherless, the widow and not shed innocent blood. And that it is also impossible to not steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, worship idols and follow other gods other than the God, and then stand before Him and say I am delivered to do all these abominations.

This is very sad.

We obviously have a failure to communicate here. I’m not sure exactly sure how to express what I’m trying to say .

First of all though I want to apologize for any assumptions I’ve made That were not true. Also for any words that have been personally condemning of you in anyway. In doing so I sinned against you and God.

When we are forgiven all of our sins, past, present, future, it is such an overflowing experience and God becomes our advocate and our daddy in heaven. He loves us and adopts us and we are his children. He is on our side and he’s there to help us as we walk after the spirit because in his eyes we are as clean and perfect as Jesus Christ

This is because of Jesus Christ imputation of his life on us since he took our life upon himself and died as us, the sinner so that we might live as him, the righteous.

This does not make one want to sin. It does not make one want to commit more adultery or steal more or kill more or any of those things. It makes us want to be like our hero like the lover of our souls.

Not only does it make us hate sin but it reveals what sin is and we find out that we’ve missed 90% of what sin is to only concentrated on the obvious.

The spirit is like a two edged sword it goes into us even to the dividing of the bones . For the first time we truly know how wicked we are and how helpless we are and then we see that God loved us anyway. when he sent Jesus to die for our sins it wasn’t just for a past sin. He sent him to die for all sin every ounce of it.

He condemned sin in the flash it is dead in us if we except him as our savior and this engenders a love so fierce that we desire with every fiber of our being to be like him.

So that’s why we walk after the spirit but As children we stumble and make mistakes but he’s faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness so we can move toward being like him out of love only and not out of fear for fear has to do with punishment.

 

[Gary K]

@Mercy Shown

Here is a story from the mid 70s of an experience of mine. I have had spiritual experiences that most people will never experience.

I wrote this back in 2001 after becoming disabled and going back to school.

It Came Upon A Midnight Clear
.
The moon rose on the snow covered landscape flooding my world with
bright moonlight. I finished my reading for the evening, turned the Iight off, and
leaned back against the couch thinking while I watched the scattered clouds drift
by under the full moon. The clouds made moving patches of darkness across an
otherwise brilliantly white landscape, as they slid under the moon.
My mind wandered back to a few weeks before when I had been baptized
and committed my life to Christ. I relived again that wonderful feeling I
experienced as I came up out of the watery grave of baptism into a new life. I
had never before known the peace and happiness in my life that I had
experienced since I had met Jesus and committed my life to Him. My days and
nights were spent in prayer, praise, and study of the Word of God. The
depression I had known for years seemed to have vanished into thin air.
As I lay there counting my blessings, my heart overflowed with gratitude
towards my Creator. He had rescued me from the life of self-destruction that I
had led since t graduated from high school. Because of this I could relate to the
words of David very well, when he said, "He brought me up out of an horrible pit,
out of the miry clay, set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings." Psalm
4O:2. I felt Iike nothing that I could offer Him was good enough, for my life up till
then had been one great failure.

I came out of my reverie, thanked God once again for my new life, and
looked back out the window at the magnificent view that I felt God had provided
just for me that night.

Suddenly, t was not where I had been the moment before. I was no
longer looking out the picture window of my parent's living room at Montana's
Yaak River Valley.

I was now standing in a large room with no windows. The building was a
large one of log construction, and at one end of the room was a Iarge, river-rock
fireplace with mantel and hearth. A large fire burned in the fireplace and there
was someone standing in front of the fireplace, back towards me, looking into the
fire. A large, very long table capable of seating maybe a hundred people filled
most of the room. I stood at one end of the table, facing down its length, to the
person in front of fireplace at the opposite end. On either side of the table were
people facing away from me wearing long, black, hooded robes, and I slowly
became aware of the sounds of chanting coming from the hooded figures.
I stood wondering where I was, but for some reason feeling no fear, even
though I had never experienced anything like this before. I looked back down to
the other end of the long table, and the person standing there slowly turned
around and walked up to his end of the table without looking up at me. I couldn't
see his face because this person too was wearing a hood, and the light coming
from the fire behind him was only light source in the room. He Iooked up when
he got to the end of the table, threw the hood back and then ! could see his face
and eyes. He locked eyes with me, raised his arm, and pointing at me began to
beckon with his index finger.

"You're mine, you're mine, you're mine," he said, still beckoning me
towards him with his index finger. Slowly I began to float down the length of that
massive table. His eyes were locked on mine and I could not tear mine away.
He seemed to be willing me on down the table, causing me to come ever closer
to him.

I had come to within a couple of inches of his face and felt I was about to
be sucked right into him, when the realization struck me who this was. This was
a one-way trip from which I was never to return. The devil had come to try take
over my mind.

Suddenly the spell was broken as I realized all this and my hearts cry
burst out of my lips. "No!" was all I could scream, but it was enough.
l was once again lying on the couch in my parent's home in Yaak,
Montana. The goose bumps stood out all over me and my heart was beating like
a jackhammer on steroids. The hair on my arms and the back of my neck stood
on end. I knew fear as I had never known it before, and have never known it like
that since I rolled over on the couch and began to pray, but as I did a scene from my
past came before me with lifelike clarity. I remembered telling the devil I was his.
A long forgotten deed had come back to haunt me.

I had been willing to squander my soul for a momentary pleasure, and
thus had come to the point of telling the devil I was his. I had made a bargain
with the devil and now he had come to claim what was rightfully his.
With desperation I began to pray again. I told the Lord that I knew I had
done this. I told Him I had gotten into this through my own stupidity, and I
confessed just how wrong I had been and told God that I was in over my head. I
told Him I had no chance to win fighting with the devil, and with that I began to
claim the promises I had learned in the Bible. I claimed the promise of 2nd
Corinthians 12:9, "My grace is sufficient for thee, my strength is made perfect in
weakness." I claimed Psalm 91:11, "For He shall give his angels charge over
thee, to keep thee in all thy ways." I claimed the promise that ma,il. extremity is
God's opportunity and every other promise that I could think of. I prayed as
Jacob must have prayed at the Brook Jabbok the night he thought he was
wrestling for his life with his brother Esau.

As I prayed and claimed the promises of God I could feel the struggle in
the room. There was an actual physical struggle in that room that night for I
could feel wingtips brush against my back as I Iay face down and prayed for help.
I would feel warm ones and cold ones, sometimes lightly brushing against me
and sometimes forcefully hitting me. I don't know how long I prayed. lt might
have been hours, or it might have been only a few minutes. I just do not know.
All I know is I have never been so afraid.

Finally the struggle was over, and a warmth and peace filled that living
room that I have not the words to describe. I lay there and told God how thankful
I was for His loving care and slowly drifted off to sleep. I was at peace, and my
heart was filled with gratitude.

Do I believe in angels? Oh yes, definitely yes. ls God real? Oh yes,
definitely yes. When I am told that the Bible is just my "guide" and that I should not take it
literally, I know different. When I am told that the Bible does not apply today, I
know different. The promises of God's Word are as true today as they were the
day they were given. When He says, "Come now, and let us reason together,
though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they be red
like crimson, they shall be as wool believe Him. He has always kept His word
with me, and He will with you too.

 

[Gary K]

We obviously have a failure to communicate here. I’m not sure exactly sure how to express what I’m trying to say .

First of all though I want to apologize for any assumptions I’ve made That were not true. Also for any words that have been personally condemning of you in anyway. In doing so I sinned against you and God.

When we are forgiven all of our sins, past, present, future, it is such an overflowing experience and God becomes our advocate and our daddy in heaven. He loves us and adopts us and we are his children. He is on our side and he’s there to help us as we walk after the spirit because in his eyes we are as clean and perfect as Jesus Christ

This is because of Jesus Christ imputation of his life on us since he took our life upon himself and died as us, the sinner so that we might live as him, the righteous.

This does not make one want to sin. It does not make one want to commit more adultery or steal more or kill more or any of those things. It makes us want to be like our hero like the lover of our souls.

Not only does it make us hate sin but it reveals what sin is and we find out that we’ve missed 90% of what sin is to only concentrated on the obvious.

The spirit is like a two edged sword it goes into us even to the dividing of the bones . For the first time we truly know how wicked we are and how helpless we are and then we see that God loved us anyway. when he sent Jesus to die for our sins it wasn’t just for a past sin. He sent him to die for all sin every ounce of it.

He condemned sin in the flash it is dead in us if we except him as our savior and this engenders a love so fierce that we desire with every fiber of our being to be like him.

So that’s why we walk after the spirit but As children we stumble and make mistakes but he’s faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness so we can move toward being like him out of love only and not out of fear for fear has to do with punishment.

Thank you. It's good to know you do not actually believe the things you have been saying.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Only rarely. Sinning is no longer a big part of my life. It was a major part of my life for decades. The devil had control of large areas of my life. He no longer does. The change in me is amazing and I take no credit for any of it. It's all God's work in me.

Then we have had the same experience. However, I am no longer the judge over whether I sell or not. And at each new level the Holy Spirit opens up more work to be done in my heart. This step-by-step revelation of the depths of sinfulness in one’s life is how we walk after the spirit.

I don’t want to sit in my life but not because I’m afraid I’ll be lost for that is guaranteed to me. I want to send out of my life because I love God and you can’t love a father without setting your heart to obey them.

I don’t fear having my sins revealed to me by the holy Spirit since I know he is only revealing that which he will give me the power and wisdom to deal with. One who desires to send more and more and more has never been saved.

 

[Gary K]

@Mercy Shown

Do you now take back your assertions against keeping the Sabbath?

 

[guevaraj]

Then, we can chime in and reinterpret the scriptures to fit our beliefs.

Brother, that is what Judaism did by replacing God's law with human law when Paul compares them to Hagar instead of being sons of Sarah. They thought their human laws helped them obey God's law.

Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law (nomos)/Commandments (entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law (nomos)/Commandment (entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:9-13 NLT fixed)​

After Jesus, most Christians are worse than Judaism by turning away completely from God's law to continue in sin. Modern Christians, unlike Judaism, fully embrace the commitment of not obeying God's law to remain in sin. Judaism obeyed a lot of God's laws, while modern Christians want nothing to do with the law of God.

In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

My friend. just as Jorge and George are the same name, one in Spanish and the other in English, so are Jesus and Joshua. One is the English name Joshua from the Hebrew Yeshua, and the other is from the Greek translation of Yeshua as Iēsous, from which we get the English Jesus. In other words, Jesus and Joshua are the same name, meaning YHWY is salvation. So, as you can see the KJV was not incorrect. It was just a matter of choosing between the two iterations of the same name.

Brother, same name but different people. Jesus is not before David to make the "good news" of entering the Sabbath before David, the blunder of translating the Gospel of Jesus before David. Joshua is the person who led Israel after Moses and the person whose name is given in the book of Hebrews responsible for the human tradition of the Sabbath in Judaism since Israel arrived in the promised land.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Mercy Shown]

@Mercy Shown

Do you now take back your assertions against keeping the Sabbath?

I would if I had, but I didn't. I have consistently pointed out the dangers of "Keeping" (notice the quotation marks) the Sabbath. I have reiterated them many times. Let no one judge you about a Sabbath day. And you should judge no one about a Sabbath day either, according to scripture.

Our human natures are so defensive about our beliefs that it will jump to conclusions rather than ask clarifying questions..

 

[Mercy Shown]

Thank you. It's good to know you do not actually believe the things you have been saying.

I believe every word of what I have said. If any of it needs clarifying, then just ask. I will be glad to explain.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Brother, that is what Judaism did by replacing God's law with human law when Paul compares them to Hagar instead of being sons of Sarah. They thought their human laws helped them obey God's law.

That is what you are doing. You are bending scripture to fit your beliefs by reinterpreting Koine Greek without knowing Koine Greek. This is where human nature loves to elevate itself above even God's word. You are claiming that even God did not guide the interpretation of His own bible But here you are cleaning up the mess He left? Really?

 

[guevaraj]

That is what you are doing. You are bending scripture to fit your beliefs by reinterpreting Koine Greek without knowing Koine Greek. This is where human nature loves to elevate itself above even God's word. You are claiming that even God did not guide the interpretation of His own bible But here you are cleaning up the mess He left? Really?

Brother, if you look for the truth in our Bible translations, there is enough redundancy in God's message to find the truth regardless of having to rely on a translation, but if you look for loopholes to hang the lies you want to cling to by twisting the truth of the need to obey God's law, you will find errors in our translations to cling to lies.

Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. (2 Peter 3:15-17)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge