LDS Who is the god of this earth?

[Peter1000]

Job is not silent. The real scriptures do not say that we existed before being born. Not one verse.


Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

There was purpose here for this gathering ---to present themselves before the Lord. No one knows for certain what that means. It is for certain that Satan is called the prince of this world.

Eph_2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Joh_12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Joh_14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Joh_16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

You guyus love making up stories---at least with this one---there is something behind it---pre-existence is not mentioned in the bible----the real scriptures. Your scriptures are not the real scriptures.

If Job 1:6 had said, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD from planets all over the universe, and Satan came also among them, as the representative of the Earth." Then I could believe you about your sons of God from other planets. But unfortunately for you, it does not say that, so I stick with our explanation that is much more reasonable. The sons of God were created by God in his image and likeness and were to come to earth in their due time.

 

[mmksparbud]

If Job 1:6 had said, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD from planets all over the universe, and Satan came also among them, as the representative of the Earth." Then I could believe you about your sons of God from other planets. But unfortunately for you, it does not say that, so I stick with our explanation that is much more reasonable. The sons of God were created by God in his image and likeness and were to come to earth in their due time.

"Now there was a day when the spirit children of the Lord, with one or more of his heavenly wives came to present themselves before the Lord (before being transformed into humans and coming to earth) …..
doesn't even come close to saying that.

 

[Peter1000]

"Now there was a day when the spirit children of the Lord, with one or more of his heavenly wives came to present themselves before the Lord (before being transformed into humans and coming to earth) …..
doesn't even come close to saying that.

That is not what we believe, so it doesn't matter to us.

 

[mmksparbud]

That is not what we believe, so it doesn't matter to us.

You do not believe that these spiritual children are preexisting humans? You do not believe that they are the product of the heavenly Father and one of His wives? Do we have to hunt down the quotes where that is exactly what you teach?

 

[He is the way]

You do not believe that these spiritual children are preexisting humans? You do not believe that they are the product of the heavenly Father and one of His wives? Do we have to hunt down the quotes where that is exactly what you teach?

We teach that God had a wife, we do not teach Brigham Young's speculation as mentioned in the Journal of Discourses.

 

[mmksparbud]

We teach that God had a wife, we do not teach Brigham Young's speculation as mentioned in the Journal of Discourses.

BY is not a prophet of God then?

 

[Peter1000]

You do not believe that these spiritual children are preexisting humans? You do not believe that they are the product of the heavenly Father and one of His wives? Do we have to hunt down the quotes where that is exactly what you teach?

We do not know how God brings forth his spirit children. We have not been given that information. We do know that spirit is eternal and that intelligence is uncreated, and in some process, these 2 elements are united together by God to bring forth intelligent, independent, spirit children. We do not have information about Heavenly Mother and her participation in bringing forth spirit children, so we are confident that she is involved, but reserved when we say Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother bring forth spirit children, for lack of knowledge.
Spirits are not transformed into humans. The spirit somehow enters into a mortal body. When that spirit enters into their new body is still to be determined. But the word 'transformed' is not an appropriate word to describe that event.

 

[Peter1000]

BY is not a prophet of God then?

BY's personal opinion is just that, his personal opinion. It is not church doctrine.

 

[He is the way]

BY is not a prophet of God then?

Yes Brigham Young was a prophet of God. That does not mean that every word a prophet says is from God. There are many things we do not know because God has not revealed it as doctrine. The Journal of Discourses is not considered an official church publication, neither is Mormon Doctrine

 

[mmksparbud]

We do not know how God brings forth his spirit children. We have not been given that information. We do know that spirit is eternal and that intelligence is uncreated, and in some process, these 2 elements are united together by God to bring forth intelligent, independent, spirit children. We do not have information about Heavenly Mother and her participation in bringing forth spirit children, so we are confident that she is involved, but reserved when we say Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother bring forth spirit children, for lack of knowledge.
Spirits are not transformed into humans. The spirit somehow enters into a mortal body. When that spirit enters into their new body is still to be determined. But the word 'transformed' is not an appropriate word to describe that event.

The bible calls it possession. Thanks, but no thanks. We were not created to be possessed by another species. We were created human and in the image of God. We will remain human for eternity, but glorified, and no one knows exactly what that means, but as Jesus is now---still human. You serve a false God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes Brigham Young was a prophet of God. That does not mean that every word a prophet says is from God. There are many things we do not know because God has not revealed it as doctrine. The Journal of Discourses is not considered an official church publication, neither is Mormon Doctrine

Love it---salvation buffet.

 

[He is the way]

Love it---salvation buffet.

Salvation comes through LOVING Jesus Christ, fearing God and keeping the commandments:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[Peter1000]

The bible calls it possession. Thanks, but no thanks. We were not created to be possessed by another species. We were created human and in the image of God. We will remain human for eternity, but glorified, and no one knows exactly what that means, but as Jesus is now---still human. You serve a false God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The spirit within a lump of clay is the species that the lump of clay becomes. Let's do it your way.
When God breathed into the nostril of Adam his "breath of life", what species entered into (possessed) Adams lump of clay?

You cannot tell me what you believe and then end it by saying you serve a false God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit because we don't believe the same things you believe. We both serve the same God the Father, and Son, and Holy Spirit, but we think differently about them.

You cannot prove your case from the scriptures, and neither can I. Or by this time, one of us would have converted to the other. It is been 3 years or more. If the bible was that clear about the Godhead, one of us would have been able to show that clearness and converted the other. Where do we go from here?

 

[BigDaddy4]

God breathes on a lump of clay and it becomes a species? Huh, new to me.

 

[mmksparbud]

The spirit within a lump of clay is the species that the lump of clay becomes. Let's do it your way.
When God breathed into the nostril of Adam his "breath of life", what species entered into (possessed) Adams lump of clay?

You cannot tell me what you believe and then end it by saying you serve a false God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit because we don't believe the same things you believe. We both serve the same God the Father, and Son, and Holy Spirit, but we think differently about them.

You cannot prove your case from the scriptures, and neither can I. Or by this time, one of us would have converted to the other. It is been 3 years or more. If the bible was that clear about the Godhead, one of us would have been able to show that clearness and converted the other. Where do we go from here?

Well, the bible says, God made the man, and then He breathed life into the man and He became a living soul. He already made the species, same as the elephant and the lion and the whale---then He breathed life into them. Breathe of life, not breath of species, God already made that. You seem to have precious little understanding of how God works---so very sorry.

Well, I can not overcome years and years of you being told since you were a child that JS is a true prophet and the Mormonism is right. Besides, we convert no one, we can only present the bible and the Holy Spirit does the rest. Thing is you have chosen to disregard the true Holy Spirit for years now and can no longer hear Him,---time is not up yet, though! Many, many, others have heard Him and converted and are doing so on a daily basis. Until time ends for you---there is still hope!!!

 

[Peter1000]

Well, the bible says, God made the man, and then He breathed life into the man and He became a living soul. He already made the species, same as the elephant and the lion and the whale---then He breathed life into them. Breathe of life, not breath of species, God already made that. You seem to have precious little understanding of how God works---so very sorry.

Well, I can not overcome years and years of you being told since you were a child that JS is a true prophet and the Mormonism is right. Besides, we convert no one, we can only present the bible and the Holy Spirit does the rest. Thing is you have chosen to disregard the true Holy Spirit for years now and can no longer hear Him,---time is not up yet, though! Many, many, others have heard Him and converted and are doing so on a daily basis. Until time ends for you---there is still hope!!!

Then since man is fashioned after the image of God, then we are of his species. Thank you .
The elephant, not fashioned after the image of God, is not of his species.
The whale, not fashioned after the image of God, is not of his species.
The lion, not fashioned after the image of God, is not of his species.

But man, God's crowning creation, fashioned man after his image and after his likeness, because man is of his species.

It is also interesting that you agree that "all" creation has the 'breath of life' within them. The elephant, the lion, the whale, the trees, the shrubs, the grasses, and especially man.

The creation was a glorious event of life.

 

[mmksparbud]

Then since man is fashioned after the image of God, then we are of his species. Thank you .
The elephant, not fashioned after the image of God, is not of his species.
The whale, not fashioned after the image of God, is not of his species.
The lion, not fashioned after the image of God, is not of his species.

But man, God's crowning creation, fashioned man after his image and after his likeness, because man is of his species.

It is also interesting that you agree that "all" creation has the 'breath of life' within them. The elephant, the lion, the whale, the trees, the shrubs, the grasses, and especially man.

The creation was a glorious event of life.

LOL!!! You do jump to conclusions., Nothing says we are of the same species, says the opposite for we are made lower than the angels and God is way above the angels, Jesus lowered Himself to become human. Image does not translate to a carbon copy. Image is likeness, it is not the same. Again, you only prove how little of the truth of the bible you know, and how much error you follow. My the Holy spirit speak His truth to you.

 

[Peter1000]

LOL!!! You do jump to conclusions., Nothing says we are of the same species, says the opposite for we are made lower than the angels and God is way above the angels, Jesus lowered Himself to become human. Image does not translate to a carbon copy. Image is likeness, it is not the same. Again, you only prove how little of the truth of the bible you know, and how much error you follow. My the Holy spirit speak His truth to you.

Have you ever seen the show "Hancock". We don't know where he came from but he was a super human being that could fly and nothing could kill him, etc, etc, etc. He went from bad to worse in the show because it got real boring being a super human and nobody to pal around with and no rivals. Only these weak humans and their petty quarrels, etc.

To me this was a lot like why God created the human being and gave him the ability to be divine like Him. Because he was lonely to have relationships beyond the God/human relationship. Which would be similar to man vs a horse intellectually. He wanted to have a God/God relationship with his creation too. To fill the universe with men and women like him, his same species.

We are his offspring (Acts 17:29)
We are his children (Romans 8:16)
If children, then heirs of all that God has, and joint heirs with Christ. (Romans 8:17)
Which has to including his divinity, his immortality, his nature, his species. (1 Peter 1:4)

 

[mmksparbud]

Have you ever seen the show "Hancock". We don't know where he came from but he was a super human being that could fly and nothing could kill him, etc, etc, etc. He went from bad to worse in the show because it got real boring being a super human and nobody to pal around with and no rivals. Only these weak humans and their petty quarrels, etc.

To me this was a lot like why God created the human being and gave him the ability to be divine like Him. Because he was lonely to have relationships beyond the God/human relationship. Which would be similar to man vs a horse intellectually. He wanted to have a God/God relationship with his creation too. To fill the universe with men and women like him, his same species.

We are his offspring (Acts 17:29)
We are his children (Romans 8:16)
If children, then heirs of all that God has, and joint heirs with Christ. (Romans 8:17)
Which has to including his divinity, his immortality, his nature, his species. (1 Peter 1:4)

Sorry---but God had equals to pal around with---His Son, and the Holy Spirit. And then, He definitely had a rival when His favorite angel turned on Him and took 1/3 of His angels. He didn't need lowly humans, made lower than the angels. He wanted them. Like we want a pet, then we get one, but then we love them. And there is nothing we will not do for them. Like we want a child, we have one---then we fall in love with the things and we will move heaven and earth for them. There are people who have never had a child of their own, their pets are their children. We are God's children--He does more than love us, He adopts us as His own children. We love dogs--and we even say now that we adopt them. And we shower them with everything we can---but no matter what---our dogs will never become human. Our own children, we don't need to adopt them, they are ours. Those children that are the product of other parents, we can adopt them, we can give them everything that we have, everything that we own----no matter how much we love them and make them ours---they will never be our own offspring. Nothing changes that fact.


What God does for He does out of love for us. His One and Only Son has died for us. That death paid the price for all sin. That fact seems to escape the Mormon. God, through Jesus has forgiven the whole world already. It was done at the cross, it is a done deal---all that we have to do is accept it. We accept His forgiveness---it is His gift to us because He loves us. When we accept that gift, we naturally return the love He has so freely given and we do as He says because we are forgiven, we return His love with our obedience --but the payment for our sins has already been paid. If we mess up again, we just need to go back under His wings and accept His forgiveness again and turn away from our sins. You guys just do not understand how great the love of God is. I hope you will see it.
with our obedience.

 

[ViaCrucis]

3 Nephi 11
14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.

This is not right!

I'm not seeing the problem here from an orthodox perspective. God is God of the whole earth. All things are the Lord's. The Scriptures teach that the heavens declare the glory of God, and that the earth is the Lord's and all it contains.

Even more, Christ our Lord said all authority in heaven and earth had been given to Him.

-CryptoLutheran