VOTE HOW MANY BELIEVE IN A PRE TRIBULATION HOPE/RAPTURE ?

Jun 16, 2020
2,104
641
55
London
✟108,944.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No
There will be no 'rapture to heaven' for anyone; pre, mid or post the Great Tribulation. Jesus said so: No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there. John 3:13

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

the bolded out part is where Jesus refers to himself ... the word even with a coma in front of it draws the distinction ...
 
Upvote 0

BillCody

Active Member
Jun 25, 2022
84
23
64
Charlotte
✟53,398.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
What Jesus said was specific and irrefutable: No one goes to heaven.....
This truth is confirmed by many other scriptures; John 7:34, John 8:21-213, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10, +
2 Kings 2:11
11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. 12 Elisha saw this and cried out, “My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Israel!” And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his garment and tore it in two.

Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

And yes there is going to be a pre tribulation rapture or snatching away as the Bible states. And you no people need to be careful that your not the five virgins needing oil for their lamps.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: keras
Upvote 0

Matt5

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2019
907
354
Zürich
✟135,405.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Seems that most people don't believe in a pre trib hope. RIght yes if you believe in a pretrib hope, or no if you believe the word doesn't teach this

No. And your pre-trib death will be unfavorable.

Matthew 25:14-28

Any Christian who won't get out of the way of the harvests (wars) will be killed. Jesus calls these Christians worthless and lazy. They are motivated by fear and an unwillingness to get out of the way - laziness.

Matthew 24:51

Clueless Christians will be cut to pieces and assigned a place with the hypocrites. You knew the return of Jesus was near. You knew most of the planet would be wiped out. Yet, you sat there and did nothing.

Matthew 24:36-41

This will all happen unexpectedly, like the flood. What percent of people survived the flood? Some estimate the total population at around 1 million at the time of the flood. So the survive rate was well below 1%. That means at least 99% of Christians are doing the wrong thing before the return of Jesus. And by wrong thing I mean they're doing nothing.

Rumors of war directed at America are coming out of both Russia and China right now.
 
Upvote 0

dfw69

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age
Nov 16, 2011
8,273
826
Dallas/Ft Worth
✟78,753.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I was wondering how long it would take for some to start trying to convince others of their interpretation.
Lol when the rapture takes place we can fly like having wings like eagles
 
Upvote 0

dfw69

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age
Nov 16, 2011
8,273
826
Dallas/Ft Worth
✟78,753.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No the believers remain in the clouds with Jesus, till the tribulation is over. Then they return with Jesus back to earth, for the 1000 year rule of Jesus on earth
Not gonna happen… Jesus was pretty clear on this … He is taking us to His Fathers house with many abodes which is the ready built new Jerusalem above where there is freedom
 
Upvote 0

dfw69

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age
Nov 16, 2011
8,273
826
Dallas/Ft Worth
✟78,753.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What Jesus said was specific and irrefutable: No one goes to heaven.....
Wrong again keras if Jesus was able and we will be like Him and we will have heavenly bodies then we too may be able



This truth is confirmed by many other scriptures; John 7:34,
They could not go because they rejected his message

Again they will not receive the rapture because they were in unbelief they denied the father and son doctrine



Referring to the disciples and the task at hand to preach the good new and not be tempted to fall away into evil


This takes place at a specific time

None of these scriptures strengthen your position as truth


This is correct, then we go with Him to where He will be; that is in Jerusalem,
There are no existing abodes in Jerusalem at the moment … Jesus spoke of His fathers House in heaven which He mentioned Zoe was returning to and is there now … It was that place in heaven with many already existing abodes awaiting us to fill … if it were not in existence already He would not have said so ….new Jerusalem is above at the moment




This will be a transportation, between 2 earthy locations. As what happened to Philip; Acts 8:39
We are not going to be resurrected and given heavenly bodies to enter earthly Jerusalem …Philippians 3:20-21

We are citizens of Heaven
 
Upvote 0

dfw69

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age
Nov 16, 2011
8,273
826
Dallas/Ft Worth
✟78,753.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Exactly….

31 But those who wait on the Lord
Shall renew their strength;
They shall mount up with wings like eagles,
They shall run and not be weary,
They shall walk and not faint.

After the change to become the children of God at His appearance in the sky this will all be possible
 
Upvote 0

dfw69

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age
Nov 16, 2011
8,273
826
Dallas/Ft Worth
✟78,753.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Rapture theory is false doctrine.
It’s not

False brethren are condemned.

Are you calling people who believe in the rapture false brethren?

Documentation, Ezekiel chapter 13.
No mention of the rapture is false in Ezek 13


Paul wrote second thessalonians. Because of confusion of first thessalonians chapter 4. And some fake shepherds twist or distort that chapter into rapture theory.

That’s not the correct way to understanding what was happening to the Thes church
Second thessalonians chapter 2
1 cor 15:51-53 says there is a rapture

and revelation chapter 12. To document, theirs no rapture.
Rev 12 takes place at a different time and season


Satan as antichrist will come 6th trump.

The ac is a man to be cast into lane of fire satan will be bound 1000 years 2 separate judgements implies 2 different beings

Those who are biblically illiterate will worship antichrist.
No those who deny the father and son doctrines will be lead away in the end to worship AC


Ephesians chapter 6 . Gospel armour is knowledge and wisdom of God's word. Its spirtual war. Its words, ideas and concepts . The gospel armour is only way past antichrist lies and deception. Get the picture.
The good news is the believe in the adoption that makes us the children of God and God will made a way to live with Him in heaven

The antichrist lies and deceptions are against the plans the Father and the Son have for humanity
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,909
2,504
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟297,881.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Delusions:
Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, no one answered; when I spoke, they did not hear: but they did evil before My eyes, and chose what displeased Me. Ezekiel 20:25

The prevalent error is in thinking that the Israel visible today is still the chosen of God. Wrong; they un-chose themselves, Matthew 27:25 and now it is every born again Christian, who belongs to the new nation of God's people. Matthew 21:43

With the rapture cult, their initial error is that of separating Israel and the Church, so they could still look for salvation to come to ethnic Jewish Israel, as a major tenet of their doctrine: Israel on earth, the Church in heaven. The pre-Trib rapture teaches removal to ensure survival from tribulation, but salvation has always been stated to redeem us from our fallen sinful state, in our earthly situation.

Acts 20:21 I know that when I am gone, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The rapture idea is that God will “save us” from that which must occur – thus equating this supposed removal with salvation. After so many Christians saw the inadequacy and misappropriation of the verses used to promote Pre-Trib, the Post-Trib alternative was then built around surviving the tribulation – thus sustaining the illusion that survival is somehow related to salvation.

A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal from the earth. The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the Cross. Ever since then, believers must trust in Jesus for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24

And if the Lord does not save them, just as has happened to the millions of martyrs in the last 20 centuries, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4

Jesus said: take care that you be not deceived..... Seems that many have been rather careless!
 
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
10,964
4,818
59
Mississippi
✟256,416.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Not gonna happen… Jesus was pretty clear on this … He is taking us to His Fathers house with many abodes which is the ready built new Jerusalem above where there is freedom

If you understand the second coming . You would see that Jesus's second coming is in two parts. First Jesus (with the trumpet sound) leaves heaven. To meet raptured believers, in the clouds. Where the believers and Jesus tabernacle for 7 years while the tribulation is completed.

Then Jesus leaves the clouds (with the believers The Church) and come back to earth to fight for Israel. He, Jesus defeats satan (and his unholy trinity, man of sin and the antichrist). Locks away satan and sends the beast from the sea (man of sin) and the false prophet (antichrist) to the lake of fire.

Then restores the earth and sets up His 1000 years kingdom on earth.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

dfw69

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age
Nov 16, 2011
8,273
826
Dallas/Ft Worth
✟78,753.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Delusions:
Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, no one answered; when I spoke, they did not hear: but they did evil before My eyes, and chose what displeased Me. Ezekiel 20:25
This judgment from God is not for rapture believers …smh ..you keep missing the mark and use scripture to say what you want it to say

Read Isaiah 66 again without the preconceived notion that it referring to rapture believers …and try to see who is truly being judged…. And why the temple worshippers were mentioned?

The prevalent error is in thinking that the Israel visible today is still the chosen of God.
God made specific promises to them and it’s foretold they will be grafted back in…

Wrong; they un-chose themselves, Matthew 27:25 and now it is every born again Christian, who belongs to the new nation of God's people. Matthew 21:43
The chosen , the elect , the wheat harvest will return to believe in Him again and they will wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb and will not rely on temple sacrifice to be saved and forgiven

With the rapture cult, their initial error is that of separating Israel and the Church,
Are not the beliefs between the 2 differ from each other?

The church believes they have a citizenship with new Jerusalem above.

Israel is seeking an earthly kingdom

2 beliefs and 2 different outcomes … One is in the light one is in darkness… one is appointed salvation one is appointed wrath for coming against the light





so they could still look for salvation to come to ethnic Jewish Israel, as a major tenet of their doctrine: Israel on earth, the Church in heaven.
Well one belief is based on faith in what Jesus has done for us to obtain salvation and through adoption we have become children of God believing we are sons and will be changed into His sons

The other is of works and a merit system to obtain salvation that involves a temple and living more like servants so long as one remains faithful to its type of worship


The pre-Trib rapture teaches removal to ensure survival from tribulation,
No it teaches that we will obtain the benefits of believing in the Son of God

but salvation has always been stated to redeem us from our fallen sinful state, in our earthly situation.
You wanna make Jesus your King and hope for an earthly reward for your service it’s your choice … but why do so when you have the glorious opportunity to become a child of God for having faith in the only begotten?

Acts 20:21 I know that when I am gone, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4
Now rapture believers are salvaging wolves ? Lol give me a break with this poor translation of scripture

Do you know what this wolf does? It pretends to be like a sheep (innocent forgiving a follower of Christ but is not none of those things) so it can to kill the sheep and eat them …literally He is a murderer using the law to justify His killings and seeking to teach others to judge and condemn other sheep to take their possessions and grow rich in this life … they do not save, they has no mercy , they do not have love in their heart for humanity…. Basically they are beast not human and do all manor of evil in the sight of God Why? Because they do not believe He exist at all and they prey on those that do..the Bible is clear where their eternal home will be for committing such crimes against His beloved


The rapture idea is that God will “save us” from that which must occur – thus equating this supposed removal with salvation.
There is salvation involved in the rapture… It will saved from the the second death and gwt judgement and also from the wrath to come upon the earth and though it’s not technically mentioned in scripture I believe we are saved from the next coming tribulation

Because Jesus received judgement and was given death under the law sets us free from the law through His sacrificial atonement

Like when death Passover the firstborn … The lambs blood saved the house within because the sacrifice was already made thus atonement was made for the firstborn

We are His firstborn keras

Why is this so hard for you to grasp???
A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
And sadly you assume the strong delusion is the pre trib rapture


This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven,
It’s not the second coming it’s just an appearance in the sky to perform the task at hand then back up


Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal from the earth.

Pre
The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the Cross. Ever since then, believers must trust in Jesus for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24
That tribulation eventually ends Keras so that the mother may enjoy her child for the rest of her life …in Israel case it’s eternal peace

Our current tribulation is soon coming to end so that our Father may enjoy His children


And if the Lord does not save them, just as has happened to the millions of martyrs in the last 20 centuries, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection.
Yes

Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4
I thought you said we come to life after the 1000 year during gwt?


Jesus said: take care that you be not deceived..... Seems that many have been rather careless!
The deception is not the belief in the rapture which is scriptural

The deception is the belief that God has no Son and God himself is coming to reign on earth
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

dfw69

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age
Nov 16, 2011
8,273
826
Dallas/Ft Worth
✟78,753.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If you understand the second coming . You would see that Jesus's second coming is in two parts. First Jesus (with the trumpet sound) leaves heaven. To meet raptured believers, in the clouds. Where the believers and Jesus tabernacle for 7 years while the tribulation is completed.

Actually the gap is much longer than 7year
Then Jesus leaves the clouds (with the believers The Church) and come back to earth to fight for Israel. He, Jesus defeats satan (and his unholy trinity, man of sin and the antichrist). Locks away satan and sends the beast from the sea (man of sin) and the false prophet (antichrist) to the lake of fire.

Then restores the earth and sets up His 1000 years kingdom on earth.
Close but not quite right

He returns with the martyrs to execute judgment
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,909
2,504
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟297,881.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
This judgment from God is not for rapture believers
Please tell us: when do 'rapture believers' get Judged?
Thinking that people can go to heaven before the Judgments as described in the Bible, is extremely pretentious and unbelievable.
Read Isaiah 66 again without the preconceived notion that it referring to rapture believers
Isaiah 66:1-5 refers to all who choose to believe false doctrines. To ANY belief which promotes escape and avoidance of trials and testing.
v 4 ,,,,the very thing they dread..... The punishment from the Lord, as described in Isaiah 66:6 & 15-17
God made specific promises to them and it’s foretold they will be grafted back in…
Romans 11:34 says the Jews can be grafted back into the Olive Tree. NOT that they will be and in 20 + Prophesies, we are told of the virtual demise of the House of Judah, only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:11-15, Romans 9:27, +
The chosen , the elect , the wheat harvest will return to believe in Him again
Sheer nonsense, the Jews have never believed in Jesus.
WE Christians are the Chosen people of God. 1 Peter 2:9, Acts 7:36
The church believes they have a citizenship with new Jerusalem above.

Israel is seeking an earthly kingdom
The Prophetic Word is clear; we earth people remain here, the Millennium Kingdom is on earth; Revelation 5:9-10, and on the new earth; God will dwell with mankind. Revelation 21:1-7

Jewish Israel relies on its own strength. Their destruction will come in an instant and just a few Messianic Jews will survive by hiding underground. Isaiah 29:1-4, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18
Now rapture believers are salvaging wolves ?
Not the believers, but those who believe in the rapture and who teach it.
Pauls warning in 2 Timothy 4:3-4, is fulfilled by how false teachers promote a fable and the 'rapture to heaven' is the prime example.
There is salvation involved in the rapture… It will saved from the the second death and gwt judgement and also from the wrath to come
The only way to avoid the second death, Revelation 20:14b, is to have your name Written in the Book of Life.
Everyone who has ever lived must stand before God on His Great White Throne. Revelation 20:11-13
The Lord Promises to protect those who call upon His Name, when He sends His vengeance and wrath. Joel 2:32, Romans 10:13, Acts 2:11
We are His firstborn keras
You have some very funny ideas. Jesus is the 'firstborn', Revelation 1:5
And sadly you assume the strong delusion is the pre trib rapture
The greatest delusion today, is the highly pretentious and wildly imaginative idea that people will suddenly fly up to heaven.
Even sci-fi books and movies don't have such incredible storylines, but you do and you confidently assert it is going to happen.

Thats how those who believe in such things operate. They think they hold the moral high ground and those who oppose them are poor fools, who will simply get 'left behind'.
But God has allowed many of His Christian people to believe in the rapture delusion, for the reason of; when the Day of the Lords wrath does come, all those with a weak faith will renounce God. The gathering of the faithful; Matthew 3:12 Into all of the holy Land. Psalms 107
I thought you said we come to life after the 1000 year during gwt?
Yes.
Only the GT martyrs will be brought back to life when Jesus Returns.
The deception is not the belief in the rapture which is scriptural
There is no scripture which states the Church will go to heaven.
Even Dr Verwood of the Dallas Theo Seminary, admitted this, in his book about the rapture. It is only construed and assumed from passages like John 14:1-5, which refers to the New Jerusalem, that comes to the earth, after the Millennium.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,848
3,438
Non-dispensationalist
✟363,004.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Please tell us: when do 'rapture believers' get Judged?
Thinking that people can go to heaven before the Judgments as described in the Bible, is extremely pretentious and unbelievable.
As soon as Satan is cast down to earth in the middle part of the 7 years, them who will have been raptured/resurrected to heaven will be given crowns according to what they have done for the cause of Christ. The timing is based on Revelation 11:18.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


On my chart, it show that judgment taking place in heaven - crowns given to the saints. While on earth, the great tribulation will be taking place.


1695360925523.png
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,909
2,504
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟297,881.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
As soon as Satan is cast down to earth in the middle part of the 7 years, them who will have been raptured/resurrected to heaven will be given crowns according to what they have done for the cause of Christ. The timing is based on Revelation 11:18.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Revelation 11:18 is a Prophecy made by the 24 Elders. Proved by how it says Jesus has assumed full power and entered upon His reign.
This does not happen until Jesus visibly Returns, as per Revelation 1:7 & 19:11
Why this and other prophesies are in past or present tense, is because their fulfilment is certain.

It is simply impossible for it to happen three and a half years before Jesus Returns, only then will He: destroy those who destroy the earth,
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,848
3,438
Non-dispensationalist
✟363,004.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Revelation 11:18 is a Prophecy made by the 24 Elders. Proved by how it says Jesus has assumed full power and entered upon His reign.
This does not happen until Jesus visibly Returns, as per Revelation 1:7 & 19:11
Why this and other prophesies are in past or present tense, is because their fulfilment is certain.

It is simply impossible for it to happen three and a half years before Jesus Returns, only then will He: destroy those who destroy the earth,
Why don't you do a copy and paste of the Revelation 11:18 verse from the REB translation you are using.

The elders are reacting because the 7th angel has sounded his trumpet, in Revelation 11:15. And in Revelation 10, the mighty angel declares that in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he first sounds his trumpet, a period of time begins which the mystery of God will be finished. The mystery of God is to take the kingdoms of this world out from under Satan's control, to be replaced by the nations of the earth being under the Kingdom of God and his Christ.

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

dfw69

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age
Nov 16, 2011
8,273
826
Dallas/Ft Worth
✟78,753.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Please tell us: when do 'rapture believers' get Judged?
We don’t get judged because we are not under the law , we are given freedom from judgement…the law was nailed to the cross ,the law judge our Father and Passover us; the firstborn


Thinking that people can go to heaven before the Judgments as described in the Bible, is extremely pretentious and unbelievable.

Same thing happened to the firstborn in Egypt ,they escape a judgement ,they escape a death sentence and then they were lead out to Gods holy mountain and to stand before Gods presence by Moses

A greater than Moses has come who will lead us to His Fathers house


Isaiah 66:1-5 refers to all who choose to believe false doctrines. To ANY belief which promotes escape and avoidance of trials and testing.
v 4 ,,,,the very thing they dread..... The punishment from the Lord, as described in Isaiah 66:6 & 15-17
Your imagination is leading you away from the truth

66 Thus says the Lord:

”Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?
2 For all those things My hand has made,
And all those things exist,”

Says the Lord.

”But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.

This text reveals God is against the temple worshippers who think or pretend they are just and pious before Him but in fact they are as described in this text …

3 But whoever sacrifices a bull
is like one who kills a person,
and whoever offers a lamb
is like one who breaks a dog’s neck;
whoever makes a grain offering
is like one who presents pig’s blood,
and whoever burns memorial incense
is like one who worships an idol.
They have chosen their own ways,
and they delight in their abominations;
4 so I also will choose harsh treatment for them
and will bring on them what they dread.
For when I called, no one answered,
when I spoke, no one listened.

See…They will glory in the house they built for the Lord …Yet they are guilty in the sight of God who knows their evil deeds…And when God sent the prophets to speak unto them they rejected the messages and killed them …

It is them, the future temple worshippers, that will be judge for failing to see the significance of the Lords sacrifice for mankind

The future temple worshippers true crimes are described in the text … They are murderers by judging the innocent…They break a prophets neck by hanging after judging that he was a false prophet and they failed to listen and so on…





Romans 11:34 says the Jews can be grafted back into the Olive Tree. NOT that they will be and in 20 + Prophesies, we are told of the virtual demise of the House of Judah, only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:11-15, Romans 9:27, +
Nonetheless the opportunity always existed since the beginning of Christianity to enter into Gods rest by faith through the belief in the messiah , Gods Son

Sheer nonsense, the Jews have never believed in Jesus.
WE Christians are the Chosen people of God. 1 Peter 2:9, Acts 7:36
Many Jews are coming back … never heard of Jews for Jesus?


The Prophetic Word is clear; we earth people remain here, the Millennium Kingdom is on earth; Revelation 5:9-10, and on the new earth; God will dwell with mankind. Revelation 21:1-7
Yes but a rapture for the firstborn takes place first in the coming barley harvest … the wheat and grape harvest comes later

Jewish Israel relies on its own strength. Their destruction will come in an instant and just a few Messianic Jews will survive by hiding underground. Isaiah 29:1-4, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18
in the end they will call out on Gods Son again

Not the believers, but those who believe in the rapture and who teach it.
Pauls warning in 2 Timothy 4:3-4, is fulfilled by how false teachers promote a fable and the 'rapture to heaven' is the prime example.
No keras a prime example was when Paul himself dealt with false teachers telling His flock the day of the Lord has come and that they missed the rapture but Paul had to remind them that we are appointed salvation by way of rapture and we are not appointed wrath… that is for those in darkness

The only way to avoid the second death, Revelation 20:14b, is to have your name Written in the Book of Life.
No …the only way to escape and to enter new Jerusalem is to have your name written in the “Lambs” book of life Rev 22:27

Everyone who has ever lived must stand before God on His Great White Throne. Revelation 20:11-13
No that’s not correct either it’s only for the dead (lost souls) both great and small

The first resurrection of salvation was completed 1000 years before this which saved everyone resurrected from the second death rev 20:4-6

The Lord Promises to protect those who call upon His Name, when He sends His vengeance and wrath. Joel 2:32, Romans 10:13, Acts 2:11
Yes
In the last days just before Jesus returns

You have some very funny ideas. Jesus is the 'firstborn', Revelation 1:5
It’s not funny it’s true we are the first to believe… Jesus was Gods firstborn… and We are Jesus firstborn understand?

We will be the firstborn .. first to be born again by the Spirit to receive the heavenly bodies for our faith

The greatest delusion today, is the highly pretentious and wildly imaginative idea that people will suddenly fly up to heaven.

Not suddenly but slowly up to meet up with the rest

Slowly like Jesus did

That is not a delusional event because it is recorded in scripture as to how it will be carried out and you are simply in denial of its happening

Do you find in highly imaginative and highly pretentious that a man can die and be resurrected and glorified and ascend to the a Father in heaven because He is a child of God?…… It has already happened as a forerunner for our hope

We are justified by our faith in Gods sacrifice

Even sci-fi books and movies don't have such incredible storylines, but you do and you confidently assert it is going to happen.
Lol thanks

Thats how those who believe in such things operate. They think they hold the moral high ground and those who oppose them are poor fools, who will simply get 'left behind'.
Moral high ground? No we all do not deserve this great opportunity given to us by God but nonetheless His love for us is greater than any of us can imagine and it’s evident in His mercy and forgiveness to allow His only Son to be sacrificed for us to obtain such great wealth

1 Corinthians 2:9


But God has allowed many of His Christian people to believe in the rapture delusion,
It’s not a delusion ..Was Jesus death burial resurrection glorification and ascension a delusion?

If we believe our Father was able to enter heaven and if believe we are Gods children by faith by adoption and we believe our Heavenly Father will return for us to transform us into spiritual beings to give us heavenly bodies as Paul describes then it’s not delusional

for the reason of; when the Day of the Lords wrath does come, all those with a weak faith will renounce God. The gathering of the faithful; Matthew 3:12 Into all of the holy Land. Psalms 107
We are not appointed wrath

1 Thessalonians 5:9

But every person in the past who has renounce their faith because they were forced to by evil men will not seperate them from what god has for them ..

Romans 8:38-39
There is no scripture which states the Church will go to heaven.
Yes there is as I’ve been showing you over and again which you deny as truth and are lacking the faith needed to believe in the good news but your thoughts are not Gods thoughts .. Your ways are not Gods ways

Even Dr Verwood of the Dallas Theo Seminary, admitted this, in his book about the rapture. It is only construed and assumed from passages like John 14:1-5, which refers to the New Jerusalem, that comes to the earth, after the Millennium.
Dr Verwood is wrong like many others who deny and reject the good news for lack of faith in what Jesus truly means to us

John 14:1-5 says nothing about new Jerusalem coming down from heaven …Jesus said He will be returning from the Fathers house (to appear in the sky) to take us up to the Fathers house (after our transformation)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,909
2,504
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟297,881.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Jesus said He will be returning from the Fathers house (to appear in the sky) to take us up to the Fathers house (after our transformation)
This is your belief, but I and many other Christians disagree, as for Jesus to remove His people from the earth is unprecedented and conflicts with what we are told of God's plans for our future.
As is Prophesied, there is coming soon, a terrible day when the Lord will send His fiery wrath, that will devastate the Middle East and change the world. Then we Christians will travel to, Psalms 107, and live in the holy Land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Zechariah 8:1-8, +
This is what will happen, all as clearly stated in the Bible. You can reject this truth, but at least you have been informed of the alternative to the rapture and will know what does happen is from the Lord.
 
Upvote 0