Three Questions about God's Law

[SabbathBlessings]

All your points I’ve already dealt with in this thread.

Acts 15 does not deal with circumcision only and to say it does is a blatant falsehood. And SDAs like to use translations that purposely perpetuate this falsehood.

I never said it was "only" about circumcision but its the main theme.


Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

“… that certain [men] which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment. Acts 15: 24

“the law” they are referring to is the “law of Moses” which includes the 7th day Sabbath. This was alluded to in verse 6 by the Pharisee sect who were responsible for sending out the spies to whom the church elders "gave no such commandment":

The "law" they are referring to is the law they specified - Circumcision- read the verse you quoted- it does not say the seventh day Sabbath, only if one adds that there which I do not recommend Pro 30:5-6.

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” Acts 15: 6
The law of Moses includes the 7th day Sabbath.

The Sabbath is part of the Ten Commandments Exo 20:8-11- something God calls "My covenant" Deut 4:13 or "My commandments" Exo 20:6 Jesus referred to it at the commandments of God Mat 15:3-14 which He condemns those who keep their own rules over obeying God's commandments quoting right from this unit of Ten.

Acts 15 is irrefutable. This debate was settled almost 2,000 years ago. The falsehood perpetuated regarding Act 15 voids any benefit one may believe they obtain by observing the 7th day Sabbath.

The only reference in Acts 15 about the Sabbath is that they were keeping every Sabbath Acts 15:21 which does not help your case that it states the Sabbath commandment was abrogated -which is irrefutable.

 

[Canuckster]

I never said it was "only" about circumcision but its the main theme.


Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”


The "law" they are referring to is the law they specified - Circumcision- read the verse you quoted- it does not say the seventh day Sabbath, only if one adds that there which I do not recommend Pro 30:5-6.

The Sabbath is part of the Ten Commandments Exo 20:8-11- something God calls "My covenant" Deut 4:13 or "My commandments" Exo 20:6 Jesus referred to it at the commandments of God Mat 15:3-14 which He condemns those who keep their own rules over obeying God's commandments quoting right from this unit of Ten.

The only reference in Acts 15 about the Sabbath is that they were keeping every Sabbath Acts 15:21 which does not help your case that it states the Sabbath commandment was abrogated -which is irrefutable.

As already addressed earlier in this thread, The Ten Commandments is part of the law of Moses as it came during the time of Moses. Your obsession with God's finger doesn't change that. It's what's in the letter addressed to the Gentile churches beginning in Acts 23 that matters not the Jews who were preached Moses every Sabbath from the days of old.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

As already addressed earlier in this thread, The Ten Commandments is part of the law of Moses as it came during the time of Moses. Your obsession with God's finger doesn't change that. It's what's in the letter addressed to the Gentile churches beginning in Acts 23 that matters not the Jews who were preached Moses every Sabbath from the days of old.

You didn't address the scriptures and the fact there is nothing in Acts 15 that says the Sabbath has been abrogated.

Once again God never called the Sabbath or the Ten Commandment's "the law of Moses" He called it MY covenant Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 or My commandments Exo 20:6 and Jesus called them the commandments of God Mat 15:3-14 so your augment is not with me. God also called the Sabbath- My holy day Isa 58:13 and wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger, that no one can countermand- Mat 5:18-30 as no one has authority over God.

It just comes down to authority. Do we follow those who changed God's times and laws Dan 7:25 or do we keep God's Sabbath the way He wrote it based on His Authority. God takes ownership of the Sabbath as it points us back to the God of Creation Exp 20:11 Gen 2:1-3- no other God is capable of Creation and its the same God of Judgement Rev 14:7 . God's people keep God's commandments Rev 14:12 including the one God made sure to remind us we should not forget Exo 20:8-11. We can follow God and live by His every Word and Remember and keep His Sabbath day holy, or follow man with popular traditions, which is something Jesus warned us about Mat 15:4-14 Mark 7:7-13. Its a choice we will all have to make.

 

[Canuckster]

You didn't address the scriptures and the fact there is nothing in Acts 15 that says the Sabbath has been abrogated.

Once again God never called the Sabbath or the Ten Commandment's "the law of Moses" He called it MY covenant Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 or My commandments Exo 20:6 and Jesus called them the commandments of God Mat 15:3-14 so your augment is not with me. God also called the Sabbath- My holy day Isa 58:13 and wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger, that no one can countermand- Mat 5:18-30 as no one has authority over God.

It just comes down to authority. Do we follow those who changed God's times and laws Dan 7:25 or do we keep God's Sabbath the way He wrote it based on His Authority. God takes ownership of the Sabbath as it points us back to the God of Creation Exp 20:11 Gen 2:1-3- no other God is capable of Creation and its the same God of Judgement Rev 14:7 . God's people keep God's commandments Rev 14:12 including the one God made sure to remind us we should not forget Exo 20:8-11. We can follow God and live by His every Word and Remember and keep His Sabbath day holy, or follow man with popular traditions, which is something Jesus warned us about Mat 15:4-14 Mark 7:7-13. Its a choice we will all have to make.

The letter in Acts 15 shows that Christians don't have to get circumcised or keep the law of Moses which is the Old Covenant which was called the law of Moses which includes the 7th day Sabbath. There's nothing you can say to alter that. The case was settled, of course not for SDAs or Jews but for Christians.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The letter in Acts 15 shows that Christians don't have to get circumcised or keep the law of Moses which is the Old Covenant which was called the law of Moses which includes the 7th day Sabbath. There's nothing you can say to alter that. The case was settled, of course not for SDAs or Jews but for Christians.

First you will have to prove your case with scriptures- our words are not scriptures and God said the Sabbath was part of My covenant Deut 4:13 Exo 32:28 - My commandments Exo 20:6 and Jesus taught they are the commandments of God. Mat 15:3-14 not one mention they are the law of Moses, although all of God's people keep God's commandments Rev 14:12 so would include Moses.

Jesus said not to break the least of these quoting from the Ten Commandments Mat 5:19-30 and not to alter one jot or tittle Mat 5:18 as no one is above God. We have free will and all gets sorted out soon enough. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Canuckster]

First you will have to prove your case with scriptures- our words are not scriptures and God said the Sabbath was part of My covenant Deut 4:13 Exo 32:28 - My commandments Exo 20:6 and Jesus taught they are the commandments of God. Mat 15:3-14 not one mention they are the law of Moses, although all of God's people keep God's commandments Rev 14:12

Jesus said not to break the least of these quoting from the Ten Commandments Mat 5:19-30 and not to alter one jot or tittle Mat 5:18 as no one is above God. We have free will and all gets sorted out soon enough. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Truth only needs one scripture, lies need many...

"certain [men] which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment."

Christians know that the "the law" referred to here is the law of Moses, they know the law of Moses is the Old Covenant as it was given during the time of Moses, they know the Old Covenant includes the Ten Commandments which were given during the time of Moses, they know the Old Covenant includes the Sabbath which was given during the time of Moses, and they know they don't have to observe it.

Of course I don't expect you to agree. I've never seen anyone on this form convince an SDA, or someone who practices Judaism, to stop observing the Sabbath. This is to help keep the novice Christian observer, that may come across this section of the forum, from enslaving themselves into a life of poverty and bondage because SDAs have convinced him/her to give up their hopes of a lucrative livelihood or profession, after they've invested years of education and training, to keep a 7th day Sabbath, from sunset to sunset, that they don't have to keep to be saved.

If I help keep one new believer from such a horrible and unnecessary burden, I believe it will please God their Father.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Truth only needs one scripture, lies need many...

Hmmm, so basically this is saying the bible is based on a lie since it is filled with many scriptures.

"certain [men] which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment."

The law is the law of circumcision as stated in the very first verse and the verse you're quoting from. It does not say the Sabbath commandment. Act 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.

Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment."

Circumcision is not the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a commandment of God written by God Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16, not Moses.

You will not find circumcision is the Ten Commandments Exodus 20-Paul said circumcision does not matter, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1 Cor 7:19 Jesus refers to Ten Commandments as the commandments of God Mat 15:3-14

Jesus and the apostles kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 Acts 18:4 Acts 13:42-44 and Jesus indicated it would be kept by His people Isa 56:1-6, Mat 24:20 and kept for eternity Isa 66:22-23.

Christians know that the "the law" referred to here is the law of Moses, they know the law of Moses is the Old Covenant as it was given during the time of Moses, they know the Old Covenant includes the Ten Commandments which were given during the time of Moses, they know the Old Covenant includes the Sabbath which was given during the time of Moses, and they know they don't have to observe it.

Of course I don't expect you to agree. I've never seen anyone on this form convince an SDA, or someone who practices Judaism, to stop observing the Sabbath. This is to help keep the novice Christian observer, that may come across this section of the forum, from enslaving themselves into a life of poverty and bondage because SDAs have convinced him/her to give up their hopes of a lucrative livelihood or profession, after they've invested years of education and training, to keep a 7th day Sabbath, from sunset to sunset, that they don't have to keep to be saved.

If I help keep one new believer from such a horrible and unnecessary burden, I believe it will please God their Father.

God wants us to rest on the Sabbath day Exo 20:8-11 and you want one to work- so it appears you are the one suggesting to a new believer to keep an unnecessary burden, not God. God wants to bless and sanctity us Isa 56:1-6, Eze 20:12 because we can't sanctify ourselves, we need God, yet people still try

 

[Canuckster]

Hmmm, so basically this is saying the bible is based on a lie since it is filled with many scriptures.

The law is the law of circumcision as stated in the very first verse and the verse you're quoting from. It does not say the Sabbath commandment. Act 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.

Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment."

Circumcision is not the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a commandment of God written by God Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16, not Moses.

You will not find circumcision is the Ten Commandments Exodus 20-Paul said circumcision does not matter, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1 Cor 7:19 Jesus refers to Ten Commandments as the commandments of God Mat 15:3-14

Jesus and the apostles kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 Acts 18:4 Acts 13:42-44 and Jesus indicated it would be kept by His people Isa 56:1-6, Mat 24:20 and kept for eternity Isa 66:22-23.


God wants us to rest on the Sabbath day Exo 20:8-11 and you want one to work- so it appears you are the one suggesting to a new believer to keep an unnecessary burden, not God. God wants to bless and sanctity us Isa 56:1-6, Eze 20:12 because we can't sanctify ourselves, we need God, yet people still try

You're making no sense... Saying you need many scriptures to support a lie and only need one to support the truth is not saying the bible is a lie cause it has many scriptures.

It mentions circumcision and the law... the law includes the Sabbath. The spies that were sent out didn't only discuss circumcision but as clarified by the church elders in the letter, they said "Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law". This is what I meant where you need many scriptures to support a lie. Because the law wasn't mentioned in verse 1, you use it and ignore the clarification in verse 24 because it doesn't support the lie.

God doesn't require Christians to rest on the 7th day. You're referring to a scripture in Exodus that's addressed to the Israelites not to Christians. Again, another scripture you need to support the lie.

Next you'll use another scripture of God resting on the Sabbath to support your lie that Christians have to rest on the Sabbath when there's no evidence that even Adam and Eve were commanded to keep the Sabbath.

You see... I tell the truth and only need one scripture... "certain [men] which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment."

That clearly means there was no commandment from the church elders for Christians in Asia to get circumcised or keep the law... and we all know, no matter how many scriptures you use, the law includes the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You're making no sense... Saying you need many scriptures to support a lie and only need one to support the truth is not saying the bible is a lie cause it has many scriptures.

A text would be a start that says the Sabbath has been abrogated in Acts 15. So far you have provided no text other than the law about circumcision, which is not the Sabbath commandment.

It mentions circumcision and the law... the law includes the Sabbath. The spies that were sent out didn't only discuss circumcision but as clarified by the church elders in the letter, they said "Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law". This is what I meant where you need many scriptures to support a lie. Because the law wasn't mentioned in verse 1, you use it and ignore the clarification in verse 24 because it doesn't support the lie.

Here are the Ten Commandments. Please point out where circumcision is mentioned once.

The Ten Commandments​

Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

God put the Sabbath commandment in the same unit as not to worship other gods and thou shalt not murder. He personally wrote these commandments with His own finger and breaking one of these is like breaking them all even in the NC James 2:10-12 because no man is above the authority of God.

God doesn't require Christians to rest on the 7th day. You're referring to a scripture in Exodus that's addressed to the Israelites not to Christians. Again, another scripture you need to support the lie.

God's people rest according to the commandment even in the NT Luke 23:56 because God's people keep God's commandments Rev 14:12

Next you'll use another scripture of God resting on the Sabbath to support your lie that Christians have to rest on the Sabbath when there's no evidence that even Adam and Eve were commanded to keep the Sabbath.

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and for everyone Isa 56:1-6. The Sabbath started at Creation when man was made on the sixth day Gen 1:26 before for the first Sabbath that was made for mankind as man was made in the image of God to follow Him, not to do our own thing, which is called rebellion.

You see... I tell the truth and only need one scripture... "certain [men] which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment."

And yet this verse still does not say the Sabbath commandment.

That clearly means there was no commandment from the church elders for Christians in Asia to get circumcised or keep the law... and we all know, no matter how many scriptures you use, the law includes the Sabbath.

So we can worship other gods, vain God's holy name, covet and steal too? Guess we have a different idea of what God's Truth is Psa 119:151 or His righteousness Psa 119:172 which is everlasting Psa 119:142 Isa 56:1-6

 

[Canuckster]

A text would be a start that says the Sabbath has been abrogated in Acts 15. So far you have provided no text other than the law about circumcision, which is not the Sabbath commandment.

Here is the Ten Commandment. Please point out where circumcision is mentioned once.

The Ten Commandments​

Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Act 15 refers to the law of Moses which includes the Sabbath. The Ten Commandments are part of the law of Moses. The Israelites, and the Jews during the time of Christ, did not look at the Ten Commandments as being separate from the law of Moses, (the Old Covenant), for they were first given during the time of Moses and circumcision is required to keep the law of Moses. Only SDAs claim the Ten are separate from the law of Moses because they can use the Sabbath to enslave people while they themselves don't break any of the civil laws of the day if they were to observe the whole law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Act 15 refers to the law of Moses which includes the Sabbath. The Ten Commandments are part of the law of Moses. The Israelites, and the Jews during the time of Christ, did not look at the Ten Commandments as being separate from the law of Moses, (the Old Covenant), for they were first given during the time of Moses and circumcision is required to keep the law of Moses. Only SDAs claim the Ten are separate from the law of Moses because they can use the Sabbath to enslave people while they themselves don't break any of the civil laws of the day if they were to observe the whole law.

Guess all will get sorted out soon enough.

Take care.

 

[Canuckster]

Guess all will get sorted out soon enough.

Take care.

You too

 

[BobRyan]

Act 15 refers to the law of Moses which includes the Sabbath. The Ten Commandments are part of the law of Moses.

True.
So then "do not take God's name in vain" is in the Law of Moses.

So also "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in the Law of Moses
So also "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 in the Law of Moses.

The Israelites, and the Jews during the time of Christ, did not look at the Ten Commandments as being separate from the law of Moses

agreed. It was all the Law of God.

Mark 7:7-13 shows us that Christ views it that way.

Eph 6:2 reminds us that the NT teaching held that the TEN were a unique unit of Law

, (the Old Covenant), for they were first given during the time of Moses

INdeed - not taking God's name in vain - was a command then just as it is today.

. Only SDAs claim the Ten are separate from the law of Moses

Until you read the "Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19"
Until you read the "Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19"
Until you read D.L Moody's sermon on the TEN
Until you read C.H Spurgeon's view of it.

Until you read Dies Domini
Until you read what R.C Sproul says about the TEN.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

True.
So then "do not take God's name in vain" is in the Law of Moses.

So also "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in the Law of Moses
So also "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 in the Law of Moses.

agreed. It was all the Law of God.

Mark 7:7-13 shows us that Christ views it that way.

Eph 6:2 reminds us that the NT teaching held that the TEN were a unique unit of Law

INdeed - not taking God's name in vain - was a command then just as it is today.

Until you read the "Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19"
Until you read the "Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19"
Until you read D.L Moody's sermon on the TEN
Until you read C.H Spurgeon's view of it.

Until you read Dies Domini
Until you read what R.C Sproul says about the TEN.

And lets not forget about what God said.


Deut 4:13 So He (God) declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He (God) wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.


The law of Moses written by Moses was a separate covenant- placed outside the ark of the Covenant, handwritten by Moses in a book on paper. Deut 31:26

Only the Ten Commandments was placed inside the ark of the Covenant Exo 40:20 under His mercy seat and what we will be judged by. James 2:10-12, Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 22:14-15

 

[BobRyan]

I really like the survey for this thread

 

[HIM]

As already addressed earlier in this thread, The Ten Commandments is part of the law of Moses as it came during the time of Moses

Prove it

Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deut 4:14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

 

[HIM]

The law of Moses written by Moses was a separate covenant-

Hey there SB, not sure where you are getting this idea from.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hey there SB, not sure where you are getting this idea from.

Hey Him!

The Covenant of God contained the Ten Commandment Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 and no more was added Deut 5:22

A covenant just means an agreement. The law of Moses was a separate covenant that was written in a book placed outside the Ark of the Covenant Deuteronomy 31:26 Deut 29:21 written by Moses. Deut 31:24 Deuteronomy 31:9 Only the Ten was placed inside Exo 40:20 personally written by God Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16

God's Covenant is an everlasting covenant - He has made minor changes to it, like the application, but God's law does not change, it is perfect Psa 19:7 righteous Psa 119:172, Rom 7:12 Truth Psa 119:105 Psa 119:142 eternal and what all man will be judged by. Mat 5:18-30 James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 22:14-15. God's law reflects God's character which we are to take on His image (character) which is why the devil consistently attacks God's law- at the end we will either take on the image (Character) of Christ or by default the image of His enemy who has deceived the world by the teaching we can be saved in our sins and we do not have to keep God's law.

 

[HIM]

t. The law of Moses was a separate covenant

Hey there, SB thank you for your reply Where does it say that in the scriptures you quoted?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hey there, SB thank you for your reply Where does it say that in the scriptures you quoted?

It was already answered. God writing and Moses writing- two separate laws. Deut 5:22 makes clear there was nothing else added to the Ten Commandments. God's law was inside the ark, the law of Moses was placed outside. I provided all the scripture references in post 298.