The Origin of Christianity (I report, You decide) ?

[dollar]

First off I respect all your views on life please don't think i'm trying to hurt any feelings. I just wanted to bring this information and you decide wether you agree or not...

The following may not be fact but concider this:

Christianity (and other religions) may be based off of
pagan sun worshipping or shall I say Astrology.

First off... Fish symbolism in Christianity (much like the fish symbol at the top left of this web site page) = Jesus born at begining of age of Pisces (Pisces symbol is two fish together)

12 zodiac signs the sun travels with = the 12 apostles Jesus ( the son ) travels with

Ancients noticed the Sun moves south during winter, gets to a point where the sun stops moving south but also didn't move back north either for 3 days. They said the sun died for 3 days. When the Sun started moving north agian they said it ressurected from the dead. This "ressurection" of the sun after it "died" for 3 days happend on December 25th. They said the Sun was the salvation of the world because it was risen. The Sun is on the cross of the zodiac. = Hence Jesus died on the cross for 3 days then was ressurected.

Each zodiac constellation occupies 30 degrees of the zodiac circle = Thus Jesus was born "a little before the beginning" of the Age of Pisces then "begins his ministry" at age 30 (from the beginning of the Age ofAries to the beginning of the Age of Pisces 30 degrees)around when Jesus died.

The cross of the zodiac = The cross of Jesus

The SUN of God = The SON of God

Crown of Thorns = Sun rays

God is the light of the world = The Sun is the light of the world

The word AGE mentioned throughout the Bible = AGE is an astrological term which lasts on average about 2,100 yrs

The "End Times" the Bible speaks of = The end of the Age of pisces

( Revelation 1:7 ) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. = The Sun cometh with clouds everyday to bring life to the world.

(John 14:2)In my Father's house (heavens)are many (12)mansions (houses)= 12 houses of zodiac

(Luke 22:10) And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. = The Age after Pisces is Aquarius (who's house we enter after the piscin Age)who is symbolized holding a pitcher of water.

If you want to know more follow the links below, but please i'm not forcing you to look its your choice:

I recommend this video if you'd like a good video to show you how its possible Christianity may be Astrology
( The Naked Truth ) : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8251447278663885234

Another good video can be found at the following links which are broken into parts about 8 minits each:
Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRZmzf7WiNg
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlGR8_Dmohk&mode=related&search=
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ASZbUEvqwI&mode=related&search=

Also here are some good informative web sites I recommend:
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_nojesus.html#Sun
http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/friendletter.html
http://www.transactual.com/cac/symbolism.html

Well you decide but it looks to me like Christianity and many other religions are nothing more than Astrology personified...but its completely up to you if you want to think the same, its just my opinion...

Your thoughts are welcome

 

[Sothron]

I am asking a mod to move this to the debate subforum.

 

[Breaking Babylon]

You completely wasted your time.

 

[Sothron]

Now that it is in the proper forum let me say that I think this idea is just plain nutters. Christianity started as a direct offshoot of Judaism and does not have anything to do with astrology.

 

[ClementofRome]

"12 zodiac signs the sun travels with = the 12 apostles Jesus ..."


Yea, and I guess that we can argue that this is also the case with the 12 Tribes of Israel.....oh, and the origins of a 12-pack of beer!!

 

[dollar]

"12 zodiac signs the sun travels with = the 12 apostles Jesus ..."


Yea, and I guess that we can argue that this is also the case with the 12 Tribes of Israel.....oh, and the origins of a 12-pack of beer!!

hmm...I never thought about the beer part lol....

 

[dollar]

Now that it is in the proper forum let me say that I think this idea is just plain nutters. Christianity started as a direct offshoot of Judaism and does not have anything to do with astrology.

Sorry I didn't know there was a debate spot here. I respect your opinon, I only ask you read through at least once with an open mind, then come to a conclusion... I see your conclusion is "this is nutters"...

 

[nutroll]

I agree with Sothron, there are so many details in the NT that are fulfillments of the OT. If Christianity is made up, then the obvious source of the details would be the OT, not astrology. For instance, the number twelve was seen as a holy number throughout the OT. It is so much more likely that there are twelve disciples because there are twelve tribes of Israel than because there are twelve zodiac signs. There are much more rational explanations for everything you have suggested than that it was all borrowed from astrology. One would need to demonstrate that the OT was based on astrology before even trying to claim that the NT was. This would require being able to demonstrate that the writers of the OT had familiarity with astrology, but according to you, they must have had a familiarity with the modern 12 zodiac sign system. I don't think that there is any evidence of this, and even if there were, there is a nearly 2000 year history of Orthodox Christianity full of miraculous events which tells me that there is more to it than a made up religion based on astrology.

 

[nestoj]

Sorry I didn't know there was a debate spot here. I respect your opinon, I only ask you read through at least once with an open mind, then come to a conclusion... I see your conclusion is "this is nutters"...

Yup, after reading it I also think this is waste of time. I've always thought that Astrology is anti - Christian, actualy it's of antichrist to be precise.

nestoj
God helps

 

[Orthosdoxa]

God stamped His Love and Life on the hearts of all mankind, long before He revealed Himself in the Person of Christ Jesus. Those who lived before His time "knew" some things, only they had not been revealed properly.

Some of what you said IS nutters, but people like to point to some other ancient religions that bear some resemblance to Christianity, and it's for a good reason. God did not ignore mankind before His message was fully revealed. They did the best they could with what they had; therefore, there was some truth in their beliefs.

 

[dollar]

.

 

[dollar]

Yup, after reading it I also think this is waste of time. I've always thought that Astrology is anti - Christian, actualy it's of antichrist to be precise.

nestoj
God helps

Yes i suppose you could say Astrology is anti - christian. I also suppose you could say anything not "related" to christianity is anti - christian or of the antichrist...

 

[dollar]

but according to you, they must have had a familiarity with the modern 12 zodiac sign system.

Modern 12 zodiac sign system? This system is actually older than you may think. Go here http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsgreekcross.htm

 

[nutroll]

I'm not an idiot, I know it's old, but I also know that at certain times, in certain near eastern cultures, there have been 18 symbols in the zodiac, I know that there have been countless changes based on culture. Everything you have said relies on there being 12 zodiac signs (like there are today) at the time that the OT was written, and that they were familiar with them. I don't know that that is a tenable position.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

First off... Fish symbolism in Christianity (much like the fish symbol at the top left of this web site page) = Jesus born at begining of age of Pisces (Pisces symbol is two fish together)

There's a rational explanation for the fish symbolism which does not relate at all to the zodiac.

12 zodiac signs the sun travels with = the 12 apostles Jesus ( the son ) travels with

As mentioned before, this likely has more to do with the twelve tribes of Israel, and again as mentioned before, the burden is on you to show that the writers of the OT were familiar with it. I doubt it, since any such systems were strictly condemned.

Ancients noticed the Sun moves south during winter, gets to a point where the sun stops moving south but also didn't move back north either for 3 days. They said the sun died for 3 days. When the Sun started moving north agian they said it ressurected from the dead. This "ressurection" of the sun after it "died" for 3 days happend on December 25th. They said the Sun was the salvation of the world because it was risen. The Sun is on the cross of the zodiac. = Hence Jesus died on the cross for 3 days then was ressurected.

December 25th is the date Jesus' birth is celebrated, not the day of His resurrection. Besides, was Christ actually born on the 25th? Probably not.

I would also add that the "risen sun" and the risen Son is a play on words that is very unlikely to work on other languages. Additionally, you have not even specified what "ancients" you are talking about. Finally, once again, you'd have to show that these ancients had contact with the writers of the OT.

Each zodiac constellation occupies 30 degrees of the zodiac circle = Thus Jesus was born "a little before the beginning" of the Age of Pisces then "begins his ministry" at age 30 (from the beginning of the Age ofAries to the beginning of the Age of Pisces 30 degrees)around when Jesus died.

This seems just a little irrelevant and just a bit of a stretch considering the above arguments.

The cross of the zodiac = The cross of Jesus

Ever seen a Russian cross? Besides, if I recall, the earliest Christian symbol was the chi-rho, not the Cross.

The SUN of God = The SON of God

Again, a play on words that is not going to work in other languages. For example, the Spanish word for son is "hijo," whereas sun is "sol." It is linguistically impossible to show that they have the same root.

Crown of Thorns = Sun rays

The crown of thorns was one of the ways the Roman soldiers humiliated Jesus. I am assuming that people who worship the sun would not consider the rays of the sun to be humiliating to it...

God is the light of the world = The Sun is the light of the world

Again, references to God as the Light appear in the OT. Prove that the OT writers had connections to sun worshipers.

The word AGE mentioned throughout the Bible = AGE is an astrological term which lasts on average about 2,100 yrs

Sorry, but I don't think that astrology can just claim that term for itself. Prove it's strictly astrological and I'll reconsider.

The "End Times" the Bible speaks of = The end of the Age of pisces

The two are not comparable. Christ's Kingdom will then have no end. Will the sun never set at the end of the age of pisces or something? You're going to have to develop your argument much more than that.

( Revelation 1:7 ) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. = The Sun cometh with clouds everyday to bring life to the world.

This is a prophetic writing. You're talking about it as if it's coming now. Very flawed exegesis that completely ignores context.

(John 14:2)In my Father's house (heavens)are many (12)mansions (houses)= 12 houses of zodiac

Again, more than likely referring to the twelve tribes of Israel. See above for what you must now show.

(Luke 22:12) And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. = The Age after Pisces is Aquarius (who's house we enter after the piscin Age)who is symbolized holding a pitcher of water.

Wow, once again, this passage is completely out of context... more faulty exegesis. Jesus was giving instructions to Sts. Peter and John, which were to be taken literally - NOT symbolic as you are talking about.

PS - it's verse 10, not 12.

Well you decide but it looks to me like Christianity and many other religions are nothing more than Astrology personified...but its completely up to you if you want to think the same, its just my opinion...

I'd say that you had better look twice at your opinion. Seems as though you have not an ounce of substance to your arguments.

 

[dollar]

This is a quote from Tomas Paine:

"The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun."
—Thomas Paine

 

[Macarius]

I would actually argue the converse, but in a theological (rather than temporal) sense.

We know that the 12 point zodiac sign originated in Mesopotamian astrology sometime during the 2nd millenium BC (approximately the age of Abraham) - it thus predates, chronologically, Judaism and Christianity.

However, I do not think that Judaism and Christianity borrowed from it, but rather that God, acting as He does in all religions and at all times, placed in the astrologers signs or indications of the true Way - which is Christ.

If not for the locative difficulties, Toaism could be said to have directly informed Christian thought, with Christianity's preoccupation with water, asceticism, "The Way" (for its name, which is the very meaning of "Tao") and Christianity's theology of the Word. Christ is Tao made manifest, according to this "analogizing." Taoism certainly predated Christianity, however it would be difficult to contend that either informed the other in their early development.

To me, starting from a Christian world view, it makes more sense to say that because the world's great religions are all pursuing Truth, and because (in my world view) Truth = Christ, each world religion contains Christ in part and in signs that are elucidated by the fullness of the Truth - namely the direct revelation of Christ Himself in the God-Man Jesus of Nazareth, whose teachings the Church continues, being the pillar and ground of the Truth.

The best example of this is Judaism, which also recieved direct revelation from God through her prophets. All over their numerology, scriptures, and practices, the Christian finds signs and typologies indicating the Christ to come, His death on the cross and resurrection from the dead, His liberating humanity from death, His revelation of the Trinity, and the asceticism and sacramental life of the Church.

Hope that helps!
Macarius

 

[SeraphimSarov]

To me, starting from a Christian world view, it makes more sense to say that because the world's great religions are all pursuing Truth, and because (in my world view) Truth = Christ, each world religion contains Christ in part and in signs that are elucidated by the fullness of the Truth - namely the direct revelation of Christ Himself in the God-Man Jesus of Nazareth, whose teachings the Church continues, being the pillar and ground of the Truth.

Good point as well.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

This is a quote from Tomas Paine:

"The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun."
—Thomas Paine

What does he have to do with anything?

 

[dollar]

There's a rational explanation for the fish symbolism which does not relate at all to the zodiac.

Wow, once again, this passage is completely out of context... more faulty exegesis. Jesus was giving instructions to Sts. Peter and John, which were to be taken literally - NOT symbolic as you are talking about.

I'd say that you had better look twice at your opinion. Seems as though you have not an ounce of substance to your arguments.

How does the rational explanation of the fish symbolism not relate to the zodiac? Pisces is one of the 12 zodiac.

"And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in."
Literaly speaking then, why exactly would Jesus tell them to find a man bearing a pitcher of water and following him into the house he enters? Astrologically speaking we have found a man bearing a pitcher of water (Aquarius) who's house we have entered (They call each area of which one of the 12 zodiac figures reside in the sky, houses) and we have followed him into his house.

How could Astrology influenced the old testement you ask? Simply because people have been looking to the stars for far longer than before they had any religion to follow. In fact they worshipped the Sun in most cases.

let me show you this which outlines the history of astrological ages which we have already been through:
from the following web site http://www.transactual.com/cac/symbolism.html
Consider the following:


Age of Leo



Sun worship, Ra, Sphinx or Lion (Age of Adam in Hebrew symbology)

Age of Cancer



Beetle or Sacred Scarab of Egypt, later the Crab, Isis (Eve)

Age of Gemini



Early writing, hieroglyphics, Horus and Set (or Cain and Abel)

Age of Taurus



Agricultural Age, Fertility religions, Golden Calf, Hindu Cattle worship, (Spanish bullfighting is a ritual relating to the end of the Taurus Age) The Hindu religion still clings to its cattle worship from the age of Taurus.

Age of Aries



Power worship -- Power god Jehovah, sign ruled by Ram or Lamb, Lamb of David, slaying of the lamb as a ritual commemorating the end of the age. The Hebrew or Jewish religion still promotes the concept of a the power-hungry, threatening, egocentric god Jehovah.

Age of Pisces


God as a fisher of men, Lamb of God sacrificed at the end of Aries age, resurrected for the new Piscean Age. The Cross as a symbol for the re-birth of the new year (Aries and Pisces are the cross points, or transition signs between the end of one zodiac and the beginning of the new zodiacal year, Easter, when the Sun (Son) hangs suspended on the cross between winter and spring, as the death of the Old and resurrection of the New. The Christian religions keep promoting a sacrificial lamb and asking followers to sacrifice and martyr themselves for Christ, while never realizing that they are keeping Christ on the Cross and could take him down and put him in their hearts and consciousness; keeping people bowing to the cross and feeling guilty if they ever question why they should go like zombies to kneel before a shrine that keeps the Christ suspended thus bowing to the messenger, while ignoring the message.

No substance to my arguments huh? Keep an open mind. Think hard on it, don't just dismiss just because it goes agianst what you believe.
I can give you no more proof right now than showing you the link to this video (The Naked Truth) : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8251447278663885234 (It was produced in the 90s but is good nontheless, It is close to 2 hours long but its the best video in regards to what we are speaking of)