The mind set on the flesh

[Hammster]

For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
— Romans 8:5-8

When it comes to regeneration, there are two arguments. Or at least two that I know of. One is that we believe, and then are regenerated, and the other is that we are regenerated and then believe. I think the above passage makes a clear argument that we cannot believe prior to be regenerated. The reason is that faith or belief is something that pleases God. Being obedient to Christ’s command is something that pleases God. I also think that believing the gospel and being obedient or things that must be done in the spirit and not in the flesh. And the reason is, as the above passage says, we cannot please God in the flesh.

If the only way to pleaseGod is to be in the Spirit, then the argument would be that one must be in the Spirit before he or she can be obedient to Christ’s command to believe and repent.

 

[zoidar]

I think this passage shows we repent first and then we receive the Holy Spirit. If this is true how can we then understand Romans 8:5-8? I will say the teaching in Ac 2:38 is more clear than Romans 8:5-8, so it's natural to start from the clearest verse and not the other way around.

Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
— Acts 2:38

 

[Hammster]

I think this passage shows we repent first and then we receive the Holy Spirit. If this is true how can we then understand Romans 8:5-8? I will say the teaching in Ac 2:38 is more clear than Romans 8:5-8, so it's natural to start from the clearest verse and not the other way around.

Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
— Acts 2:38

When you repent, is that done in the flesh or in the Spirit?

 

[zoidar]

When you repent, is that done in the flesh or in the Spirit?

I don't know what you mean by that. You need to expound.

 

[Hammster]

I don't know what you mean by that. You need to expound.

For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
— Romans 7:5

That’s being in the flesh. That’s being carnal minded.

For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
— Romans 7:5

and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
— Romans 8:8

Being in the Spirit is being regenerate.

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
— Romans 8:9

So when you repent, are you in the Spirit or in the flesh?

 

[d taylor]

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A person believes in Jesus and then they are born again. A person is not born again and then believes.

 

[Hammster]

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A person believes in Jesus and then they are born again. A person is not born again and then believes.

Are they in the flesh or the Spirit when they believe?

 

[d taylor]

Are they in the flesh or the Spirit when they believe?

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They are in the flesh and when they believe they receive the Life of God, The Spirit. The believer will remain in the flesh till they die.

 

[Hammster]

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They are in the flesh and when they believe they receive the Life of God, The Spirit. The believer will remain in the flesh till they die.

If that’s true, then God isn’t pleased when someone believes. Thats an interesting view to hold.

 

[zoidar]

If that’s true, then God isn’t pleased when someone believes. Thats an interesting view to hold.

I would say a person can't please God with his life until he has repented and believes. He needs a new life to be able to please God. Sure repentance is pleasing to God, but that is not what Romans 8:5-8 is about. Repentance is the doorway to live a pleasing life to God.

 

[Hammster]

I would say a person can't please God with his life until he has repented and believes. He needs a new life to be able to please God. Sure repentance is pleasing to God, but that is not what Romans 8:5-8 is about. Repentance is the doorway to live a pleasing life to God.

In one post you said a man can and cannot please God in the flesh.

 

[zoidar]

For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
— Romans 7:5

That’s being in the flesh. That’s being carnal minded.

For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
— Romans 7:5

and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
— Romans 8:8

Being in the Spirit is being regenerate.

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
— Romans 8:9

So when you repent, are you in the Spirit or in the flesh?

It does not matter which it is. What matters is Ac 2:38, that we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit after repentance and that is the moment of regeneration and salvation.

 

[d taylor]

If that’s true, then God isn’t pleased when someone believes. Thats an interesting view to hold.

As Jesus states the order is ask and then receive, it is not receive and then ask.

Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

 

[zoidar]

In one post you said a man can and cannot please God in the flesh.

You can do pleasing things to God in the flesh, but you can't live a pleasing life to God. An example: In the flesh you can help the poor. That is pleasing to God. However, you can not serve God as your Lord and that is displeasing to God.

 

[Hammster]

It does not matter which it is. What matters is Ac 2:38, that we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit after repentance and that is the moment of regeneration and salvation.

It doesn’t say that.

 

[zoidar]

It doesn’t say that.

Ok, that is what I see. What do you see?

 

[Hammster]

As Jesus states the order is ask and then receive, it is not receive and then ask.

Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

That didn’t address my post.

 

[Hammster]

Ok, that is what I see. What do you see?

You receive the gift. It doesn’t say I dwelling.

 

[zoidar]

You receive the gift. It doesn’t say I dwelling.

Ok, what is the gift then?

 

[Hammster]

You can do pleasing things to God in the flesh, but you can't live a pleasing life to God. An example: In the flesh you can help the poor. That is pleasing to God. However, you can not serve God as your Lord and that is displeasing to God.

You cannot please God in the flesh. Scripture is clear. A non-believer cannot please God because they don’t act to glorify God.