The earth is flat. (Impossible to debunk)

[JacksBratt]

If there are giants in Flat-Heaven, are they still giants? *scratches head*

Maybe they are corrugated....

 

[JacksBratt]

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[JacksBratt]

The global earth rotates on a north-south axis that is inclined about 23 degrees to the plane in which the earth revolves around the sun. This of course produces seasonal variations in the length of day and night and the positioning of sunrise and sunset. These effects are more pronounced the closer one is to the polar regions. All of this is in perfect accord with the law of gravity and the laws of motion developed by Newton some three hundred years ago. All this is settled science.

The other interesting point that this brings into play is that, in the summer our daytime side tilts toward the sun and the night time faces away. Then, 1/2 of a year later, the opposite is true.

This means that in the night, during the summer I look way off into one side of space.
In the winter, at night, I look way off into the other side of space.

Why, then, do I not see totally different constellations in winter and summer?

Check out these diagrams.
http://www.nwclimate.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/earths-axis-solar-radiation-2017.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...ta0Zu3hX3Fn-mQe0HOc_JS0T0Af55TM1H5E9GN_ZsNM0Q

http://www.noaa.gov/sites/default/f...ic/thumbnails/image/seasons.jpg?itok=uPAFjdpU

 

[JackRT]

The other interesting point that this brings into play is that, in the summer our daytime side tilts toward the sun and the night time faces away. Then, 1/2 of a year later, the opposite is true.

This means that in the night, during the summer I look way off into one side of space.
In the winter, at night, I look way off into the other side of space.

Why, then, do I not see totally different constellations in winter and summer?

Check out these diagrams.
http://www.nwclimate.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/earths-axis-solar-radiation-2017.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...ta0Zu3hX3Fn-mQe0HOc_JS0T0Af55TM1H5E9GN_ZsNM0Q

http://www.noaa.gov/sites/default/f...ic/thumbnails/image/seasons.jpg?itok=uPAFjdpU

The diagrams are correct. Note that the earth is a massive object rotating on an axis and acts like a gyroscope. That is the axis always aligned in the same direction, directly above the north pole is the North Star (Polaris) while directly above the south pole is the Southern Cross. As a consequence we always see the same constellation no matter the time of year.

 

[JacksBratt]

The diagrams are correct. Note that the earth is a massive object rotating on an axis and acts like a gyroscope. That is the axis always aligned in the same direction, directly above the north pole is the North Star (Polaris) while directly above the south pole is the Southern Cross. As a consequence we always see the same constellation no matter the time of year.

Well, sorry to say, this does not make sense... Not on a heliocentric model.

How is the axis always aligned with the North star? This would only work if the sun orbited around us.

If I look out my window in the night, I am looking at space that was out my window during the day, in summer. So, I can now see the stars that would have been in the daytime sky.

A very simple explanation is that the sun and stars move around us.
The earth doesn't even have to be flat... but the center of the rotation must be us.

 

[JackRT]

How is the axis always aligned with the North star? This would only work if the sun orbited around us.

That was precisely the point of view up until about AD 1600. It was the cosmology of Ptolemy from about AD 150. He recognized that the earth was a sphere but thought that it was fixed at the centre of the universe. The very careful observations of planetary orbits made by Copernicus increasingly called Ptolemy's model into question. Then Kepler working with the data collected by Copernicus discovered that all the problems could be resolved by the planets being in elliptical (not circular) orbits around the sun. That include the earth itself. However, there still was no why as that was so. Then Newton deduced his law of gravity and his three laws of motion. Suddenly the motions of the earth and the planets were perfectly explained by those laws.

Now, as to your question. As a giant gyroscope the axis of the earth always points in the same direction. Well, there is a bit of a wobble, called 'precession', but that is only noticeable over a time period of 26,000 years so it is not important to our discussion. So, either the earth is stationary and the stars orbit around it or the earth rotates on its axis. At about the same time it was realized that the speed of light was finite and that the stars were vastly more distant than was previously thought. The only way stars could rotate around a stationary earth is if they were moving faster than light speed. It was conclude that the earth itself had to be rotating. Further, without the stabilizing gyroscopic effect of a rotating earth, even small events like a volcanic eruption or an asteroid strike would change the earth's orientation.

I haven't even touched upon numerous other observations and effects that are all neatly explained by a rotating earth in a heliocentric solar system. I must admit that there was a tiny problem in explaining the orbit of Mercury but Einstein's Theory Special Relativity was able to account for that.

I have now spent considerable time trying to explain to you in very simple terms just how science has come to believe what it does. You could easily have done that research but you chose to believe crackpots and scientifically illiterate opportunists. I am now close to the end of my tether in trying to answer the questions of an "open minded" man who simply doesn't wish to change his mind.

"Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up."

 

[Theo102]

How is the axis always aligned with the North star? This would only work if the sun orbited around us.

The North star is so far away that the apparent motion of the North star due to the Earth orbiting the sun is less than what you could observe visually.

https://www.space.com/30417-parallax.html

 

[JacksBratt]

That was precisely the point of view up until about AD 1600. It was the cosmology of Ptolemy from about AD 150. He recognized that the earth was a sphere but thought that it was fixed at the centre of the universe. The very careful observations of planetary orbits made by Copernicus increasingly called Ptolemy's model into question. Then Kepler working with the data collected by Copernicus discovered that all the problems could be resolved by the planets being in elliptical (not circular) orbits around the sun. That include the earth itself. However, there still was no why as that was so. Then Newton deduced his law of gravity and his three laws of motion. Suddenly the motions of the earth and the planets were perfectly explained by those laws.

Now, as to your question. As a giant gyroscope the axis of the earth always points in the same direction. Well, there is a bit of a wobble, called 'precession', but that is only noticeable over a time period of 26,000 years so it is not important to our discussion. So, either the earth is stationary and the stars orbit around it or the earth rotates on its axis. At about the same time it was realized that the speed of light was finite and that the stars were vastly more distant than was previously thought. The only way stars could rotate around a stationary earth is if they were moving faster than light speed. It was conclude that the earth itself had to be rotating. Further, without the stabilizing gyroscopic effect of a rotating earth, even small events like a volcanic eruption or an asteroid strike would change the earth's orientation.

I haven't even touched upon numerous other observations and effects that are all neatly explained by a rotating earth in a heliocentric solar system. I must admit that there was a tiny problem in explaining the orbit of Mercury but Einstein's Theory Special Relativity was able to account for that.

I have now spent considerable time trying to explain to you in very simple terms just how science has come to believe what it does. You could easily have done that research but you chose to believe crackpots and scientifically illiterate opportunists. I am now close to the end of my tether in trying to answer the questions of an "open minded" man who simply doesn't wish to change his mind.

"Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up."

I still look out my window, in the night of winter, to see the sky that would be the daytime sky in summer. I am looking in the opposite direction of space.

 

[JackRT]

I still look out my window, in the night of winter, to see the sky that would be the daytime sky in summer. I am looking in the opposite direction of space.

No you are not, north is still north. I have already explained that to you with diagrams that YOU supplied! Are you really so thick?

 

[Theo102]

Why, then, do I not see totally different constellations in winter and summer?

If you live above the tropic of cancer you will never see the southern constellations. If you're looking along the plane of the ecliptic then the constellations that you see will depend on how far into the night it is as well as what season it is.

 

[JacksBratt]

No you are not, north is still north. I have already explained that to you with diagrams that YOU supplied! Are you really so thick?

Thick? Really?

Look at the diagram... assume that this is actually two twin earths on opposite sides of the sun. Their axes both tip left and the sun is in the middle.

The people on the right earth will see what is to their right.. at night as this is opposite side to the sun.
The people on the left earth would have to look directly at the sun to see the same stars and constellations which would be to the right of the entire diagram... in their day sky and the right hand earth's night sky..

Their night skies face opposite directions, on the page. They, then, cannot see the same stars at night.

If they were in a room with pictures on the wall... the left earth would look at the pictures on the left wall at night..
and the right earth would see the pictures on the right wall at night.....

 

[JacksBratt]

If you live above the tropic of cancer you will never see the southern constellations. If you're looking along the plane of the ecliptic then the constellations that you see will depend on how far into the night it is as well as what season it is.

That's not my point... see my previous post.

 

[JackRT]

Thick? Really?

Look at the diagram... assume that this is actually two twin earths on opposite sides of the sun. Their axes both tip left and the sun is in the middle.

The people on the right earth will see what is to their right.. at night as this is opposite side to the sun.
The people on the left earth would have to look directly at the sun to see the same stars and constellations which would be to the right of the entire diagram... in their day sky and the right hand earth's night sky..

Their night skies face opposite directions, on the page. They, then, cannot see the same stars at night.

If they were in a room with pictures on the wall... the left earth would look at the pictures on the left wall at night..
and the right earth would see the pictures on the right wall at night.....

You know just enough to confuse yourself. The Earth's axis is aligned with the North Star always. That means that no matter where the earth is in its orbit you will always see the same constellations. Always. The sole difference is time of day, because the earth rotates on its axis these constellations appear to rotate about the North Star.

 

[lasthero]

I know this won't sway anyone who thinks these pictures are all faked and whatnot, but here's a picture of Florence from the ISS.

https://boygeniusreport.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/dmvhy-hxgaeetlr.jpg?quality=98&strip=all&w=782

If you wait long enough of the ISS live feed, you can spot it, too. Which I guess is actually a continuous, 24/7 CGI fake that's accurately shows weather patterns across the planet. Very pretty, regardless.

 

[JacksBratt]

You know just enough to confuse yourself. The Earth's axis is aligned with the North Star always. That means that no matter where the earth is in its orbit you will always see the same constellations. Always. The sole difference is time of day, because the earth rotates on its axis these constellations appear to rotate about the North Star.

Then how do we orbit the sun... and then keep our north pole facing the north star.. The sun must, somehow, go behind us... this would mean that the sun orbits us. Or, the axis wobbles from one side to the other.... There is no other way to lean toward the sun during one season, away from the sun during the other... the diagram would rip apart.

 

[JacksBratt]

I know this won't sway anyone who thinks these pictures are all faked and whatnot, but here's a picture of Florence from the ISS.

https://boygeniusreport.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/dmvhy-hxgaeetlr.jpg?quality=98&strip=all&w=782

If you wait long enough of the ISS live feed, you can spot it, too. Which I guess is actually a continuous, 24/7 CGI fake that's accurately shows weather patterns across the planet. Very pretty, regardless.

Yes, I saw that.. big and white with the curve of the earth... at the top... where it always is, with a fish eye..

In this photo... you do realize, that the storm is by scale of the curve and the visible area of the curve that the storm takes up... the storm is larger than all of Canada and the US.

This disproportion is proof that it is skewed and of no validity and that the lens they use is one that should be saved for close ups and peep holes in your front door.

 

[lasthero]

Yes, I saw that.. big and white with the curve of the earth... at the top... where it always is, with a fish eye..

In this photo... you do realize, that the storm is by scale of the curve and the visible area of the curve that the storm takes up... the storm is larger than all of Canada and the US.

This disproportion is proof that it is skewed and of no validity and that the lens they use is one that should be saved for close ups and peep holes in your front door.

I’d love to see your work on that. Like, how you actually determined the scale.

I’m no expert, but I’d say he size has to do with them being rather close to it. If that picture isn’t to your liking though...

https://www.space.com/41790-4-powerful-storms-seen-from-space.html

Have fun denying all of that.

And again, you can spot it on the ISS live feed if you wait long enough.

By the way, are you at least conceding that there are satellites in space that are capable of showing things on the Earth below (albeit skewed, as you think)

 

[JacksBratt]

I’d love to see your work on that. Like, how you actually determined the scale.

I’m no expert, but I’d say he size has to do with them being rather close to it. If that picture isn’t to your liking though...

https://www.space.com/41790-4-powerful-storms-seen-from-space.html

Have fun denying all of that.

And again, you can spot it on the ISS live feed if you wait long enough.

By the way, are you at least conceding that there are satellites in space that are capable of showing things on the Earth below (albeit skewed, as you think)

The fact of the matter is simple... they use a fish eye lens... every time.. It bends the objects at the border of the frame. In the mid frame, a straight object will be straight... at the edges.. curved.

Judging from the curve of the horizon, in your so called accurate picture of Florence, the curve, if it is there at all, is grossly exaggerated. It is exaggerated to such an extent that, if this was the proper rate of curve of the globe, then, in order for the ball to be proportionate to that rate of curve and the amount of the frame that is occupied by Florence.... the storm would take up most of the surface of the ball...

In actuality, Florence is large, but not even as large as 1/4 of the US as opposed to being the size of the entirety of North America.

NASA often has issues with this problem. Check out the six or twelve supposed pictures of earth from space, by NASA... each with the continents occupying different amounts of the globe. It''s rather sloppy.

 

[JacksBratt]

By the way, are you at least conceding that there are satellites in space that are capable of showing things on the Earth below (albeit skewed, as you think)

I am not decided on what to believe in this area as of yet. There are evidences of Google earth having high altitude balloons. Amateurs have done the same...I really don't know what to think as far as this is concerned.

Whatever it is... I sure wish they would toss the GO PRO lens that they stole from their 13 year old.. and get a real camera.

 

[JackRT]

Then how do we orbit the sun... and then keep our north pole facing the north star.. The sun must, somehow, go behind us... this would mean that the sun orbits us. Or, the axis wobbles from one side to the other.... There is no other way to lean toward the sun during one season, away from the sun during the other... the diagram would rip apart.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-701acd6ed0897f12f01d5cdda97cf146-c