Systemic racism in the USA: Are whites "guiltier" if they had slavery in their past?

[timothyu]

Let's just agree that whites are all to blame for the past experiences of the blacks.

In the US perhaps (a product was purchased) but not in the land of origins.

 

[RDKirk]

In the US perhaps (a product was purchased) but not in the land of origins.

We don't have to worry or think about what happened in another country any more (maybe less) than we do today. Black people can claim that it was European colonization that created the huge market. Black people can claim that the white European Christians should have known through the Holy Spirit that they were sinning. But that's irrelevant from both perspectives.

What happened here and what happens here is what counts in this discussion.

 

[timothyu]

What happened here and what happens here is what counts in this discussion.

Right, but what I responded to insinuated this, " whites are all to blame for the past experiences of the blacks", was a global thing.
This has fuelled the whole white privilege thing around the world.

 

[durangodawood]

....I think that's the crux of the issue. Let's just agree that whites are all to blame for the past experiences of the blacks. And do to that past guilt blacks have a more difficult time than whites.

The actual legal barriers have totally been removed. Yet blacks still struggle more. So who should take responsibility for that and what should they do about it?
....

Proposing that positive action would have to be the sole responsibility of this or that racial group is just a trick played by those whod see nothing happen at all. Its repulsive, and they know it.

A national situation like this is a collective problem, meaning: any improvement involves all of us, as a nation and not any particular identity group. Thats who.

 

[Bradskii]

Let's say we determine that conventionally lovely people are favored in society to the detriment of ugly people. How do we address the problem of individuals favoring beautiful people in social transactions?

It's a recognised phenomena: Beauty Pays

I think that you have to show people that there is an inherent bias, that we're all subject to it, that it's generally unconscious and that we're therefore not to blame for it. If we are then aware of it and accept it then hopefully we can allow for it.

This obviously applies to all types of bias. Anything with an -ism at the end.

 

[RDKirk]

Proposing that positive action would have to be the sole responsibility of this or that racial group is just a trick played by those whod see nothing happen at all. Its repulsive, and they know it.

A national situation like this is a collective problem, meaning: any improvement involves all of us, as a nation and not any particular identity group. Thats who.

No, frankly, white people can be rightly accused of causing our problem, but white people cannot do anything to solve our problem.

 

[RDKirk]

It's then hopefully we can allow for it.

What can "....allow for it" mean in terms of public policy? Does it mean DEI includes ugly people? Short people? Fat people? People wearing glasses?

 

[HopeSings]

I live in Christ. We have no ethnicity.

 

[HopeSings]

---

No, frankly, white people can be rightly accused of causing our problem, but white people cannot do anything to solve our problem.

Who is our? Is Christ divided?

 

[Bradskii]

What can "....allow for it" mean in terms of public policy? Does it mean DEI includes ugly people? Short people? Fat people? People wearing glasses?

Ugly is a matter of opinion. But yeah, you need to make sure that people who suffer from dwarfism for example, or obese people are not excluded because of their height or weight. As long as it doesn't impact on the job they do. That could be part of a formal process. But I was talking more about making sure that everyone is aware of our inbuilt biases. Maybe start at an early age.

Oh no! CRT!

 

[rjs330]

Proposing that positive action would have to be the sole responsibility of this or that racial group is just a trick played by those whod see nothing happen at all. Its repulsive, and they know it.

A national situation like this is a collective problem, meaning: any improvement involves all of us, as a nation and not any particular identity group. Thats who.

And yet still no.answers. All.of us? Okay, what's that mean exactly. What do.all.of us have to do?

 

[rjs330]

But yeah, you need to make sure that people who suffer from dwarfism for example, or obese people are not excluded because of their height or weight. As long as it doesn't impact on the job they do. That could be part of a formal process.

How does that work.exactly? How do we make sure? And excluded from what? What do WE do. Let's just assume we all know we have a bias against fat people. What do we do as a society to make sure those biases don't work against them.

 

[RDKirk]

Ugly is a matter of opinion. But yeah, you need to make sure that people who suffer from dwarfism for example, or obese people are not excluded because of their height or weight. As long as it doesn't impact on the job they do. That could be part of a formal process. But I was talking more about making sure that everyone is aware of our inbuilt biases. Maybe start at an early age.

Oh no! CRT!

Some biases are also going to be rational.

This is the problem: Most white people, most people in America, will not have a close association with any black person. That's not a matter of bigotry, that's a matter of demographic distribution...there aren't enough black people to around for every white person to have a black friend.

But without that kind of close association, the information people have to go by is what they see in the media. I spend time looking at how black Americans are represented in the media...and especially how we represent ourselves in the media. It's not pretty. And unless a person knows how to analyze data logically--and takes the intentional time to do so--they will have a largely negative view of black people in America. With reasonable cause.

We do have to fix ourselves, and there is nothing more white people can do to fix us.

 

[RDKirk]

How does that work.exactly? How do we make sure? And excluded from what? What do WE do. Let's just assume we all know we have a bias against fat people. What do we do as a society to make sure those biases don't work against them.

And how does the bias against fat people rate with all the other personal biases we might have?

 

[Bradskii]

Some biases are also going to be rational.

They are all rational in some way. Or at least were. It made sense to be wary of someone who wasn't obviously from your group. But that is now generally irrational. That needs to be pointed out. We need to be made aware of our instinctive reactions.

 

[timothyu]

Look at the facial expressions and reactions of any child of any race and they are all exactly identical. Could it be because we all came from the same mold?

 

[RDKirk]

They are all rational in some way. Or at least were. It made sense to be wary of someone who wasn't obviously from your group. But that is now generally irrational. That needs to be pointed out. We need to be made aware of our instinctive reactions.

When you actually have some information about the "out group," and that information is negative, then the bias is rational. It remains rational until you gain enough more information to provide nuance.

 

[Bradskii]

When you actually have some information about the "out group," and that information is negative, then the bias is rational. It remains rational until you gain enough more information to provide nuance.

Exactly right. But the instinct that somebody belongs to an 'outgroup' is not in itself rational. Because...it's instinctive. A gut reaction. A response based on millions of years of evolution telling you 'Hey, it might be beneficial in the first instance to treat this person as a threat. Just in case'. Just like it's best to jump back if something rustles in the grass. It's probably a mouse, but it could be a snake. The second level response is to rationally consider that initial reaction and act accordingly.

 

[rjs330]

And how does the bias against fat people rate with all the other personal biases we might have?

Just to clarify I wasn't try to rate biases. I was just asking a broader question. People keep bringing up that society needs to fix theses issues. I was asking how exactly. Lots of complaining going on and I want to know who's responsibility it is and how exactly we are supposed to fix these biases. I used fat people as an example.

 

[BCP1928]

What does that mean in terms of actions?

Let's take it out of the nature of race.

Let's say we determine that conventionally lovely people are favored in society to the detriment of ugly people. How do we address the problem of individuals favoring beautiful people in social transactions?

1. By not doing it ourselves
2. By encouraging others not to do it.
3. By using tactics of encouragement that resist being categorized as "cultural Marxism" or whatever the conservative boogyman of the day is.