SC Senate Passes Bill Banning Affirmative Care For Minors

[rjs330]

For me, it's not as much about agreeing or disagreeing with a particular political; party, it's more about obtaining the proper healthcare.

Me neither, more things we have in common. I don't care if it's the Republicans, Democrats, the Green Party or Grandma's Party. All I care about in relation to this thread is that kids are not transitioned and that Affirmative Therapy and drugs are banned from kids. I don't care who does it. A child does not have the wisdom, capacity, understanding or brain function to make those kinds of decisions with or without parental consent. And as we saw in the WPATH files the parents had no clue either.

think transgender people want to feel like they are "normal" and they are normal in that the value of their lives is no less than anybody else. All we really have to go on is what the patient says and does related to coping with the way they feel. What I am talking about is how to get gender dysphoria treated under the already established guidelines AND have insurance pay for it. People still have the option of hiring a plastic surgeon for elective surgery. I honestly don't know how or who prescribes hormones leading up to and after going under the knife but if you have enough cash, I'm pretty sure they can purchase the treatment of their choice.

Of course they want to feel.normal. or at least some do. I think there's a lot of sexual fetishism involved as well. But for those who honestly think they should be the opposite sex, I'm sure they do want to feel.normal. Just like ANYONE with a mental health issue. People with anxiety, depression, or are bi-polar want to feel normal. But they also realize they are not. They would live not to have those issues. Transgender people are not normal either. They have an illness. And just like rhe rest of the people.with mental health issues it's not up to us to alter society to make them.feel normal. There's nothing I can do to not make a person who.is bi-polar feel normal. I shouldn't be participating in their mental health problem. Same goes for the anorexic. Or the paranoid schizophrenic.

The established guidelines are bunk. A d yes if you have enough cash you can purchase just about anything. What kids need is therapy. Not Affirmative Therapy no matter who.pays for it. Not for children. Now if an insurance company wants to cover someone's transformation, then who.am I to stop them. They are a private entity. They can pay for whatever they want. But it should be outlawed for kids.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Because it is if you want your insurance to pay for it.

According to Obamacare...Trans medicine is covered.

Movement Advancement Project | Health Care / Medicaid Coverage of Transgender-Related Care

MAP's Equality Maps survey the landscape of laws affecting LGBT Americans.

www.lgbtmap.org

Medicaid covers it unless it's explicitly stated in some policy or law that it isn't.

Update on Medicaid Coverage of Gender-Affirming Health Services | KFF

This brief presents findings on states’ coverage of gender-affirming health services under Medicaid as of July 2021.

www.kff.org

It's very easy to look up.

No....it's not a mental disorder if insurance has to pay for it.

Except the DSM-5 which clearly states the criteria and the Psychiatric community that accepts these standards across the USA.exepts

Go ahead and quote "transgender" in the DSM-5.

It's not even in there.

"Transgender" isn't a disorder, it's a label for a person who suffers from gender dysphoria.

No....it's not, and that's not how the DSM-5 describes gender dysphoria.

 

[rturner76]

What kids need is therapy. Not Affirmative Therapy no matter who.pays for it.

I was totally with you until here. From the small amount of research I have done about the goals of affirmative action, they are focused on treating gender dysphoria specifically by assuming that their thoughts and feelings are valid as opposed to putting them in a treatment that teaches them to deny or ignore those thoughts and feelings by convincing people that they don't actually feel what they feel but they have either been influenced by the devil, the need to keep a stiff upper lip and use willpower to convince themselves that they don't feel what they feel.

They have found that treatment that acknowledges their thoughts and feelings are more effective in the treatment of gender dysphoria. During this process, those thoughts and feelings can be examined to determine the best treatment options, There are extremists in every "school of thought" but IMO Affirmative Action seems to be the best route considering they will then be working on thoughts, feelings, and actions rather than the best way to deny those thoughts and feelings or teach them to feel shame for their thoughts. That method has had many more negative outcomes. We all know that when we deny our feelings, they grow stronger over time, and the denial/shame increases. Dealing openly and honestly with people's thoughts and feelings I believe will obtain the most favorable outcomes. By examining a patients feelings they can explore things like what is motivating this desire of change. If it's something as simple as they like women's fashion and they way they are treated in society, it may be possible for them to do the minimum like go out on weekends as a woman.

Having said all of that, I am not a trained counselor in this field so I don't know what the criteria is to get medication. It may only be allowed in the most severe cases. AA I don't believe encourages medical professionals to push through medication or surgery until it is determined that it is the best option for the patients sanity. I don't know what the standards are but if they want insurance to pay for it, they will have to dig deep in therapy until the Dr. feels it is the best or only option left. It's not equal to Drs' being given licence to prescribe meds and refer people to surgery.

They are a private entity. They can pay for whatever they want. But it should be outlawed for kids.

Treatment should be outlawed for kids or just prescriptions and/or surgery?

 

[rturner76]

According to Obamacare...Trans medicine is covered.

I never said it wasn't. They cover the treatment of gender dysphoria. You still can't walk into a surgery with Obamacare and get a gender-altering surgery. You have to go through all of the steps which include a doctors recommendation or referral. Even for physical injuries, unless you go to the E/R, your doctor must refer you to an orthopedic doctor or a knee doctor or whatever. You are evaluated there and they begin treatment. That may include physical therapy and medication or it might include surgery them physical therapy. It depends on the treatment plan. Either way if the specialist is not a surgeon, they will refer you to a surgeon. Same with mental health. Have an intake, do an evaluation, have a doctor and or therapist recommended, put together a treatment plan.

It's very easy to look up.

No....it's not a mental disorder if insurance has to pay for it.

Why would medical insurance pay for something that wasn't related to medical care? I think that's the third time I've asked that question.

Go ahead and quote "transgender" in the DSM-5.

It's not even in there.

It's not listed as a transgender disorder. Transgender is a noun that indicated that the person has changed gender. You need to look for "gender dysphoria" as I keep telling you. That is the illness. Changing gender (becoming a transgender person) is one of many ways to treat gender dysphoria.

This usually doesn't happen with you but I think you may be letting your personal morals dictate to you what is and is not a fact.

No....it's not, and that's not how the DSM-5 describes gender dysphoria.

So what are you confused about? I have already stated numerous times that gender dysphoria is the disorder. Gender reassignment surgery is one treatment for gender dysphoria. Of course, you can't find "transgender" in the DSM-5. Because like I have said numerous times, transgender is not the illness, gender dysphoria is.

I'm sure you are capable of learning new information. Do you wish to apply it or ignore it and consider your opinion fact?

 

[rjs330]

was totally with you until here. From the small amount of research I have done about the goals of affirmative action, they are focused on treating gender dysphoria specifically by assuming that their thoughts and feelings are valid

That's not therapy. And that hasn't been proven to be effective. In Fact its dangerous because kids are put on drugs and the trabs train even if they aren't trans.

them to deny or ignore those thoughts and feelings by convincing people that they don't actually feel what they feel but they have either been influenced by the devil, the need to keep a stiff upper lip and use willpower to convince themselves that they don't feel what they feel

That's not therapy either. Genspect has the therapy for this and neither the devil nor a stiff upper lip nor tge willpower to convince themselves is part of therapy. I honestly don't get where you are coming from. I don't think your statements has ever been suggested.

They have found that treatment that acknowledges their thoughts and feelings are more effective in the treatment of gender dysphoria.

No they haven't. That's exactly why Europe stopped.

IMO Affirmative Action seems to be the best route considering they will then be working on thoughts, feelings, and actions

It hasn't been shown to be effective. That's why Europe stopped doing it.

rather than the best way to deny those thoughts and feelings or teach them to feel shame for their thoughts. That method has had many more negative outcomes.

Literally no therapist is suggesting any such thing.

it's something as simple as they like women's fashion and they way they are treated in society, it may be possible for them to do the minimum like go out on weekends as a woman.

If they want to do that no one is trying to stop them.

may only be allowed in the most severe cases.

We've already showed this is NOT the way it's being done.

don't know what the standards are but if they want insurance to pay for it, they will have to dig deep in therapy until the Dr. feels it is the best or only option left. It's not equal to Drs' being given licence to prescribe meds and refer people to surgery.

I do know what tge standards are. They don't require therapy. For kids it's a very fast process. Damaging blockers, then shortly after hormone therapy with no in depth deep therapy required. We've said UT a million times. How many more times do we need to say?

Treatment should be outlawed for kids or just prescriptions and/or surgery?

Affirmative therapy, drugs and surgeries should be outlawed. Therapy as recommended by Genspect with is a therapy model should be the accepted methodology for kids. And to ease the leftist mind, Christians had nothing to do with it. No religion involved. Just therapists do therapy.

Now if the US would do a systematic review and then open a gender research lab like Europe did and stop Afirmative Care that would be good.

 

[rturner76]

That's not therapy. And that hasn't been proven to be effective. In Fact its dangerous because kids are put on drugs and the trabs train even if they aren't trans.

Pray tell, what has been proven to be effective?

That's not therapy either. Genspect has the therapy for this and neither the devil nor a stiff upper lip nor tge willpower to convince themselves is part of therapy. I honestly don't get where you are coming from. I don't think your statements has ever been suggested.

Where I'm coming from is the methods I mentioned are the alternative to Affirmative therapy.

It hasn't been shown to be effective. That's why Europe stopped doing it

So I ask again, what is effective?

Literally no therapist is suggesting any such thing.

That's right but lay people by denying that gender dysphoria is a thing support those methods. A therapist will provide therapy and AFFIRM that what they are feeling is real to them wouldn't you agree?

If they want to do that no one is trying to stop them.

I didn't say they were, my point was through therapy and assessment protocol, it can be determined whet the best method of treatment may be.

We've already showed this is NOT the way it's being done.

I would like to learn more about that. Do you have any links to a medical program that can confirm this? It;'s not that I don't believe you, I just would be more convinced if I knew what information you were looking at.

I do know what tge standards are. They don't require therapy. For kids it's a very fast process. Damaging blockers, then shortly after hormone therapy with no in depth deep therapy required. We've said UT a million times. How many more times do we need to say?

I am not familiar with tge or UT. Will you say more about them?

Affirmative therapy, drugs and surgeries should be outlawed.

I don't think I would call them Affirmative Action drugs. I do think it's a method of treatment that AFFIRMS what the patient feels is real to them. It's not up to AA to dispense drugs, it is up to an individual doctor.

 

[rjs330]

Pray tell, what has been proven to be effective?

Therapy.

Where I'm coming from is the methods I mentioned are the alternative to Affirmative therapy.

So is shooting yourself in the foot. But is not really a viable alternative. And I don't think anyone except leftists have even mentioned those alternatives. It seems to me that the left thinks that's all there is. For some reason they there is the thought process that Affirmative Therapy is all there is so we need to keep doing it even if there is no evidence it actually works. In fact it has some serious affects upon kids. It's not different than if a kid is in pain and you give them aspirin and we discover there is no evidence that aspirin works. In fact it has some serious side effects. But those on the left mantra would be, well that's all we got so give it to them anyway.

That's right but lay people by denying that gender dysphoria is a thing support those methods.

Where?

A therapist will provide therapy and AFFIRM that what they are feeling is real to them wouldn't you agree?

Would they? I think a real therapist would say something along the lines of "I understand you are feeling that way." Let's explore that some more. "

Affirmative Therapy does not just affirm the feelings, but it affirms that the person IS trans. If you say you are rrans, then you are trans. There is NO exploration the fact that the child may not be trans at all.

didn't say they were, my point was through therapy and assessment protocol, it can be determined whet the best method of treatment may be.

And who has established this assessment protocol thats being used in the US? WPATH.

am not familiar with tge or UT. Will you say more about them?

Sorry typos.

would like to learn more about that. Do you have any links to a medical program that can confirm this? It;'s not that I don't believe you, I just would be more convinced if I knew what information you were looking at.

If you would like to learn the best way to don't is look it up yourself. I've backed up everything I've said and there is no reason for you to question the veracity of of the claim. So has Ana. What I've found is that whenever I post something like that I hear the claim from those on the left if 'well, you expect us to consider it a problem. It's only one incident you posted.' My answer always has been how many do you need? I never get a response back. I have the sneaking suspicion that you may make the same statement. Would you, ot would you agree that if I posted something you wouldn't just try and brush it off with as only evidence of one incident?

 

[Foamhead]

Do you need me to post more links to the medical descriptions? It's disturbing because of what occurrs not because is a medical procedure. When people are hit with what is actually happening it's disturbing.

Here's one from the mayo clinic. BEWARE GRAPHIC MEDICAL LANGUAGE.

Feminizing surgery - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

How Gender Reassignment Surgery Works (Infographic)


Under 12? That's your line? You know girls usually don't have developed breast's under 12 to be removed. You are not a legal adult until you are 18. Please give us a valid reason a teen girl needs to have her breast's removed. Why she can't wait until she's 18?

And I noticed you didn't answer my question.

I'm transgender and I know what the procedure is.

Show me evidence that a teenage girl is having a non-medically (i.e. cancer) needed mastectomy. Until you do I'm not answering anything.

 

[Foamhead]

I find it insulting that you believe a man, or a woman is determined by manner of dress, length of hair, make-up or ability to deceive others.

There is literally no need for experts. What I have stated is not an opinion- it is biological fact.

"I don't need no evidence, I got the feelings in my tummy and that's as good as expert evidence and scientific research".

You said it's simple biology and you can tell who is a man or woman, so put your ego where your mouth is and prove it.

I already told you there were no tricks. None of them are transgender, had any surgery or hormone therapy. They are not cross dressing, depending on how you define the term. I will not tolerate being called a liar, especially just so you can avoid admitting you can't tell and have lost your argument.

If your next post is anything other then an answer or an admission you can't tell, I will permanently ignore you as just another loud uninformed voice.

To anyone else who cares to try, if his next post isn't an answer or is such an admission please feel free to take a guess. You are on the honour system that you won't cheat by trying to look it up. After enough people guess I'll reveal the answer. Again, there are no tricks here and none of them are transgender. If you have questions please PM me so you don't accidentally tip the less honest people off on where to look.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I'm transgender and I know what the procedure is.

Show me evidence that a teenage girl is having a non-medically (i.e. cancer) needed mastectomy. Until you do I'm not answering anything.

From this New York Times article,

More Trans Teens Are Choosing ‘Top Surgery’ (Published 2022)

Small studies suggest that breast removal surgery improves transgender teenagers’ well-being, but data is sparse. Some state leaders oppose such procedures for minors.

www.nytimes.com

"The World Professional Association for Transgender Health, an international group of gender experts who write best practices for the field, had been planning for months to set new age minimums for most gender-related surgeries, including endorsing top surgery for adolescents age 15 and up. Although the guidelines are not binding, they provide a standard for doctors across the world. But this month, the group abruptly withdrew the proposals, a shift reflecting both political pressures and a lack of consensus in the medical community.

There are no official statistics on how many minors receive top surgeries each year in the United States. The New York Times surveyed leading pediatric gender clinics across the country: Eleven clinics said they carried out a total of 203 procedures on minors in 2021, and many reported long waiting lists. Another nine clinics declined to respond, and six said that they referred patients to surgeons in private practice.

Dr. Gallagher, whose unusual embrace of platforms like TikTok has made her one of the most visible gender-affirming surgeons in the country, said she performed 13 top surgeries on minors last year, up from a handful a few years ago. One hospital, Kaiser Permanente Oakland, carried out 70 top surgeries in 2019 on teenagers age 13 to 18, up from five in 2013, according to researchers who led a recent study."

 

[RileyG]

I'm transgender and I know what the procedure is.

Show me evidence that a teenage girl is having a non-medically (i.e. cancer) needed mastectomy. Until you do I'm not answering anything.

How would you know what it’s like to be the opposite sex other than based on your observations of the opposite gender based on stereotypes?

 

[Zaha Torte]

"I don't need no evidence, I got the feelings in my tummy and that's as good as expert evidence and scientific research".

Wow. The fact that you don't realize the irony is both sad and hilarious.

You said it's simple biology and you can tell who is a man or woman, so put your ego where your mouth is and prove it.

I already told you there were no tricks. None of them are transgender, had any surgery or hormone therapy. They are not cross dressing, depending on how you define the term. I will not tolerate being called a liar, especially just so you can avoid admitting you can't tell and have lost your argument.

I don't recall calling you a liar.

This is such a weak argument.

A man or a woman is more than a picture.

I bet if I were to show you a picture of myself, you'd think it was a "horrible gelatinous blob" - and you'd only be half right!

If your next post is anything other then an answer or an admission you can't tell, I will permanently ignore you as just another loud uninformed voice.

To anyone else who cares to try, if his next post isn't an answer or is such an admission please feel free to take a guess. You are on the honour system that you won't cheat by trying to look it up. After enough people guess I'll reveal the answer. Again, there are no tricks here and none of them are transgender. If you have questions please PM me so you don't accidentally tip the less honest people off on where to look.

Wow - you sound like a completely hormonally balanced individual (-_-) yet I regret to inform you that truth is not a matter of consensus.

You claimed that I needed evidence and expert opinions to prove that a man is a man and a woman a woman - yet here you are - thinking you can decide sex by opinion polling.

It does not matter what anyone thinks or believes - we are all either male or female - man or woman - and that is determined in the womb.

You need to turn to the Lord Jesus Christ. Give up the delusions of Satan that will avail you nothing. Come to Christ and be healed.

 

[Zaha Torte]

How would you know what it’s like to be the opposite sex other than based on your observations of the opposite gender based on stereotypes?

It's just a caricature. A parody. A mockery.

 

[RileyG]

It's just a caricature. A parody. A mockery.

I agree.

A man doesn’t know what it’s like to be a woman and vice versa. Period.

If anyone claimed otherwise, they are delusional.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I agree.

A man doesn’t know what it’s like to be a woman and vice versa. Period.

If anyone claimed otherwise, they are delusional.

It's sad more than anything. Satan has them believing his lies.

 

[RileyG]

It's sad more than anything. Satan has them believing his lies.

You’re 100% right.

Satan is the author of confusion.

 

[rjs330]

I'm transgender and I know what the procedure is.

Show me evidence that a teenage girl is having a non-medically (i.e. cancer) needed mastectomy. Until you do I'm not answering anything.

Here's one.

I'm not really sure why you are demanding this. You honestly weren't aware?

Number of transgender children seeking treatment surges in U.S.

About 42,000 U.S. children ages 6 to 17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria in 2021, nearly triple the number in 2017, a unique data analysis for Reuters found.

www.reuters.com

Here's another. Note that there were those that were 12 that had it done.

Gender-Affirming Mastectomy Trends and Surgical Outcomes in Adolescents

There are over 150,000 transgender adolescents in the United States, yet research on outcomes following gender-affirming mastectomy in this age group is limited. We evaluated gender-affirming mastectomy incidence, as well as postoperative complications, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[BCP1928]

I agree.

A man doesn’t know what it’s like to be a woman and vice versa. Period.

If anyone claimed otherwise, they are delusional.

Then you cannot know whether they actually feel like a woman or not. That is, you cannot say that they don't.

 

[rjs330]

"I don't need no evidence, I got the feelings in my tummy and that's as good as expert evidence and scientific research".

You said it's simple biology and you can tell who is a man or woman, so put your ego where your mouth is and prove it.

I already told you there were no tricks. None of them are transgender, had any surgery or hormone therapy. They are not cross dressing, depending on how you define the term. I will not tolerate being called a liar, especially just so you can avoid admitting you can't tell and have lost your argument.

If your next post is anything other then an answer or an admission you can't tell, I will permanently ignore you as just another loud uninformed voice.

To anyone else who cares to try, if his next post isn't an answer or is such an admission please feel free to take a guess. You are on the honour system that you won't cheat by trying to look it up. After enough people guess I'll reveal the answer. Again, there are no tricks here and none of them are transgender. If you have questions please PM me so you don't accidentally tip the less honest people off on where to look.

We are talking about kids and medicalization of children. We aren't talking about what people look like. I know rhe person said they can tell. And in most cases I think you can tell if a person is a male or female. In some cases you can't. There is the rare person who can really look like the opposite sex based upon what they do to themselves. But as you pointed out that doesn't make them transgendered. They are still the same sex. And kids shouldn't be medicalized into that. Their brains are not developed enough, they dont have mental or emotional maturity to have that done to them. Especially when left alone the vast majority of them desist.

If you want to discuss trans issues on a larger scale I would say to go visit one of the other threads on the issue. This one should be reserved for dealing with the issues of kids and their situation.

You will need to provide evidence that kids need Affirmative Care. So far you haven't provided anything of that nature.

 

[rjs330]

Then you cannot know whether they actually feel like a woman or not. That is, you cannot say that they don't.

Whats a woman feel like?