I don't know if Jesus died for everyone, but He paid for the debt for His people only.
You could find out, it's right there in Scripture.
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But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone." - Hebrews 2:9
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Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men." - Romans 5:18
If He paid for everyone's sin, then all would go to Heaven, as they have been judged in Christ, and they have no sin to be judgen on. But we know that is not the case as many will go to hell.
I don't believe that Limited Atonement can be defended biblically, Scripture pretty plainly says that Christ is the atonement for everyone.
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He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." - 1 John 2:2
You still have not answered to me how can a person lose their salvation when Jesus' sacrifice was perfect?
How can one lose their salvation when Jesus paid their sins and He redeemed them, based on what they going to hell when Jesus took the punishement for all their sins? This is not something we can just activate. God in eternity past by Hos grace decided to save some. He didn't have to do that, He owes us nothing, we all deserve His wrath.
I have though. Because the way we receive what God gives is
through faith. Without faith we die in our sins.
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I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins." - John 8:24
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For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not of your own doing; it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9
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Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." - Mark 16:16
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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him" - John 3:16-17
We are justified through faith, without faith we are not justified, but remain dead in our sins
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And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind." - Ephesians 2:1-3
Even faith we receive by grace from God. We are spiritually dead.
Correct. Faith is God's gift, which we receive entirely as grace through the word
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Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ" - Romans 10:17
It is entirely apart from us, entirely apart from our works; it is pure grace. Grace alone.
Someone who once professed to be a Christian may become apostate.
They wouldn't be apostate though. I can't disinherit an inheritance of a family I'm not part of. If they were never actually a Christian, if they never actually had faith, if they were never God's child, then they can't become apostate since the very concept of apostasy is rejection and departure from faith. That's what the Greek word
apostasia means.
In Acts 21:21 a scandalous rumor had circulated about Paul, that he was teaching Jews to "forsake Moses". The Greek here is apostasia, to forsake, to depart, to abandon. That is, the rumor among the Jerusalem brethren was that Paul had been teaching the Jewish believers to apostatize from the Law of Moses.
In Joshua 22:22 it says God will know if His people, Israel, would be in rebellion. The LXX translates the Hebrew word
merod (rebellion) as
apostasia, apostasy.
In Jeremiah 2:19 it speaks of Israel's apostasy, the Hebrew word here is
meshubah (turning away), which the LXX translates as
apostasia.
Consistently this is the meaning of the word. One can't rebel, revolt, turn away, reject, etc that which they aren't actually a part of. A soldier that deserts their general or king hasn't actually deserted if they were never actually a soldier or a subject.
But a genuine Christian cannot become apostate. Those who apostatize demonstrate that they were never genuine Christians: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us” (
1Jn 2:19).
This is a reference to false teachers. John is talking about those heretical teachers who were claiming to represent apostolic doctrine but were teaching the doctrines of antichrist.
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Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge. I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life.
I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him." - 1 John 2:18-27
These heretical teachers were wolves and not shepherds--that is the meaning here. The "us" here is most inclusive of those who teach, the apostles, presbyters, bishops of the Church etc; rather than an all inclusive "us" to mean all Christians.
More relevant to this discussion is what Paul says to Timothy,
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[...]holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme." - 1 Timothy 19-20
There is no sense in speaking of holding to faith and the danger of making shipwreck of faith if it is impossible to make shipwreck of faith. If Hymenaeus and Alexander were never genuine believers, then it wouldn't make sense for Paul to discipline them so that they may learn not to blaspheme.
God knows who are His. We often don't. The ones that are genuine Christians are God's, and they will not fall into apoatasy because God preserves them. Thus Jesus' warning againat apostasy is for everyone who professes to be a Christian. They genuine Christian will however not fallen away.
The problem is that Scripture warns of the danger of apostasy. Saying that apostasy applies to non-believers simply doesn't make sense. A non-believer can't turn away.
And the danger of this way of thinking, as I outlined in my first response to you, still remains: It presents a scenario in which the Christian is unable to have confidence or assurance. It results in telling and teaching Christians, whether explicitly or implicitly, that their salvation is up to them, rather than God's grace and promises.
If apostasy isn't real, then it is silly for the Bible to even mention it.
-CryptoLutheran
