I am mormon and I want to debate with people about it being a christian religion or not.
Exactly. The Nicene Creed is the agreed upon basic beliefs of Christianity. Non belief in the Trinity is just one tenant that knocks Mornonism out of the running, but there are many, many more in that belief system.I would argue that it is not Christianity as defined by the Nicene Creed. But that's pretty obvious and may not be a debate you're interested in...
I have to make a note:It's pretty clear that Mormons believe it to be so, but as others have pointed out, we (all Christianity) have a different standard in the Nicene Creed, set long before Joseph Smith or any of us were ever around.
So I'm going to have to say no.
He is our common ancestor. So, yes, he is our father. He is the father of physical bodies of his children. Duh.Okay,
First let's get the definitions out of the way.
ADAM LDS--Father of physical mankind. Adam is also known as Michael the archangel, the ancient of days, (D&C 116).
That is what I just said: Adam is our common father.Bible--the first created man by whom all of humanity descends.
The Bible does not say this. So, you just made this up.He was not Michael the archangel.
Yes, the Bible says that those who do NOT repent and do not have faith in Christ and do not keep His commandments can NOT have eternal life.ATONEMENT
LDS--The sacrifice of Christ that made resurrection possible along with the possibility of our earning forgiveness of sins.
LDS believe this.Bible--The substitutionary sacrifice of Jesus on our behalf. He died for our sins (1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 2:2).
You just made this up. The Bible has no such claim.AARONIC PRIESTHOOD
LDS--A lesser priesthood in the LDS church. It is still used in LDS church practices and is held by the very young, (D&C 107:1, 6, 10).
Bible--A priesthood that is no longer necessary now that we have the full revelation of Christ.
Actually it is also BIBLICAL claim. So, we agree with the Bible.BAPTISM
LDS--A necessary ordinance for salvation in the Mormon church. By it sins are washed away.
Why do you make up your own doctrine? The Bible does NOT claim that baptism is not necessary.
Being rude, isn't helping your case.He is our common ancestor. So, yes, he is our father. He is the father of physical bodies of his children. Duh.
You obviously answered the first without reading the whole post thru.That is what I just said: Adam is our common father.
The Bible does not say this. So, you just made this up.
Yes, the Bible says that those who do NOT repent and do not have faith in Christ and do not keep His commandments can NOT have eternal life.
Even though Christ died for their sins they will NOT have eternal life without, faith, repentance and following Christ.
They do, show me?LDS believe this.
Your absolutely correct. But the LDS do.You just made this up. The Bible has no such claim.
We agree in as much that baptism should be done. But it doesn't save. It is a matter of the conscience and showing how we die to sin and live in Christ.Actually it is also BIBLICAL claim. So, we agree with the Bible.
Why do you make up your own doctrine? The Bible does NOT claim that baptism is not necessary.
Your quotes have NO claim that baptism is not necessary. You just make stuff up.
I was not rude.Being rude, isn't helping your case.
The ones who say that Adam is not Michael. They make this up. Why is the double standard for LDS?You obviously answered the first without reading the whole post thru.
Your right, the bible never says Adam is Michael,
so who made it up?
John 10:15, 1Ne 11:33 Jesus died for our sins. As LDS I was taught this and I believe that this LDS Doctrine is true.They do, show me?
You just made this up. There is no such claim in the Bible that: 1) baptism does NOT save, 2)it is just matter of conscienceWe agree in as much that baptism should be done. But it doesn't save. It is a matter of the conscience and showing how we die to sin and live in Christ.
You just made this up. There is no such claim in the Bible that by faith alone we are saved. Looks like not only LDS make up stuff.We are saved by faith alone and Christ alone.
But the Bible does not claim that baptism is not necessary. Those who claim that it is not necessary make up their own doctrine. MEN made doctrine.Not baptism. Again, It's a symbol of our conscience. And outward showing of our faith in Christ.
It doesn't say that it is NOT necessary. Why can you make up stuff and LDS can't?Nope. There are tons of scripture in the Bible that speaks about salvation and how we can be saved. And not one, says to be baptized for salvation. Well there are few that many religions have made it sound like it's necessary. But a proper study of that scripture shows otherwise.
Here's a couple and the explanation of them.
Matthew 28:19-20, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
This verse does not to say that baptism is necessary for salvation. It says that baptism is part of making disciples.
Yep. You are 100% correct. Can you list commandments of Christ that we shouldn't keep? Please, quote the Bible.If baptism is necessary for salvation, then it must also be true that teaching disciples to observe all that Jesus commanded is necessary as well.
Did Jesus ever said that we don't have to keep ALL His commandments? Did He say that it is up to us what to keep and what not to keep? I don't think so.But this would be salvation by works.
Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
AMEN. Those who believe AND are baptized will be saved. To choose not to be baptized = rebel openly against God's will.
You just made this up. There are no such claims in the Bible. It is your own philosophy, opinion, conclusion. It is opinion of mortal, imperfect man.I could easily say that he who believes and goes to church will be saved. That is true. But it is belief that saves - not belief and going to church. Likewise, if you believe and read your Bible, you'll be saved; but it isn't reading your Bible that saves you.
But if you believe and do NOT go to Church and do NOT read scriptures you rebel against God's will. Can my faith save me when I rebel? May be faith alone is not enough? BTW, there is NO such claim in the Bible as "by faith ALONE we are saved". It is YOUR claim. It is claim of mortal, imperfect man.
I could easily say that he who believes and goes to church will be saved. That is true. But it is belief that saves - not belief and going to church. Likewise, if you believe and read your Bible, you'll be saved; but it isn't reading your Bible that saves you.
I will tell you why it says" that he who does not believe will be condemned" without mentioning baptism.Likewise, those who believe and are baptized will be saved. But the emphasis is on faith - not on baptism. Notice that Mark 16:16 says that he who does not believe will be condemned. It does not say that he who is not baptized will not be condemned. If baptism is necessary for salvation, then we should find somewhere in Scripture where it says something to the effect of if you're not baptized, you're not saved; but we find no such statement.
Emphasis on BOTH faith and baptism when the Bible says about salvation.
Why isn't baptism mentioned when it talks about condemnation? Because those who do not have faith in the first place will not keep Christ's commandments and being baptized is one of them.
Baptism is meaningless without faith. Who cares if I am baptized and have no faith in Christ? I will be condemned
What is the point to mention baptism if there is no faith in the first place?
Conclusion: those who have no faith will never choose to be baptized. They will not be saved.
Those who have faith but choose not to be baptized are rebels. They are NOT Christ's disciples. They will not be saved.
To be Christ's disciple = have faith +to be baptized(keep the commandments/works) in Christ's Church and not in men made churches.
But those who have faith AND then of course baptized will be saved.
Yes, you quote Christ + you make some stuff up.But I didn't say any of this. Christ did.
Christians of the first century:If Mormonism is incompatible with the Nicene Creed, then it is not Christianity. If this is ignored, then even Islam can be considered Christianity because they claim to be followers of Jesus as well. They simply accepted another prophet just as the Mormons did and their version of Jesus is vastly different from the traditional view of Jesus which has been held by Christians for 2000 years, just as the Mormon Jesus is vastly different.
What is a social trinitarian belief? I think you just made that up.Mormon scholars and laity alike hold to social trinitarian beliefs , thus they are brothers and sisters in the Messiah Jesus
Just want to say, Nicene Creed was made by humans, it's not biblical.