IS 2 COR 3:6 SPEAKING ABOUT THE NEW COVENANT ?

[B Griffin]

The book of Hebrews describes the new covenant as better (not new) than the old covenant (Heb. 8:1-2, 6, NRSV). The obvious question, then, is Why did God establish the old covenant if it was faulty? The problem, however, was not with the covenant but with the response of the people to it.

It is Jesus that fulfills all covenants .... He is the only one that can and why it's a better covenant.

The new covenant is "new", as attested to by God (according to the writer of Hebrews).

In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. (Heb 8:13)​

God used the word, "new" purpose when He told Jeremiah of the new covenant which was to come because He was indicating that the first covenant was going to be made obsolete. That's why one is called "old" and the other is called "new". The fact that the new covenant is better than the old covenant does not detract from the fact that it is new.

 

[B Griffin]

I still do not know what the new covenant is.

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

The New King James Version (Je 31:31–34). (1982). Thomas Nelson.

 

[B Griffin]

# 1 For one , from Heb 8:8 that the NEW COVENANT is for the house of Israel and the HOUSE OF Judah !!

dan p

I don't know what your point is. Are you saying that if we are not Jewish that none of the elements of the new covenant apply to us...

1. He does not put His law in our minds and write it on our hearts (Jer 31:33), and
2. He is not our God, and We are not His people (Jer 31:33), and
3. We do not know Him, from the least of us to the greatest of us (Jer 31:34), and
4. He does not forgive our iniquity, and He does still remember our sins (Jer 31:34)?

 

[Diamond7]

Are you saying that if we are not Jewish

We are not Jewish? I have been circumcised what more do they want?

 

[Dan Perez]

I don't know what your point is. Are you saying that if we are not Jewish that none of the elements of the new covenant apply to us...

1. He does not put His law in our minds and write it on our hearts (Jer 31:33), and
2. He is not our God, and We are not His people (Jer 31:33), and
3. We do not know Him, from the least of us to the greatest of us (Jer 31:34), and
4. He does not forgive our iniquity, and He does still remember our sins (Jer 31:34)?

And Heb 8:8 says that It is all Jewish . When Christ will make a NEW COVENANT with the HOUSE of Israel and with the HOUSE of Judah !!

It does not mean a NEW COVANANT with the Body of Christ ,

Or the Palestinian Covenant

Or the Davidic Covenant

Or the MOSIAC Covenant that has been set aside in Acts 28:25-28 and 2 Cor 3:13-16 .

dan p

 

[B Griffin]

And Heb 8:8 says that It is all Jewish . When Christ will make a NEW COVENANT with the HOUSE of Israel and with the HOUSE of Judah !!

It does not a NEW COVANANT with the Body of Christ ,

Or the Palestinian Covenant

Or the Davidic Covenant

Or the MOSIAC Covenant that has been set aside in Acts 28:25-28 and 2 Cor 3:13-16 .

dan p

you didn't answer the question. your point has no point.

 

[Dan Perez]

you didn't answer the question. your point has no point.

Yes I did !!

The NEW COVENANT is for Israel ONLY and Not for the BODY of Christ , PERIOD is my point .

We ARE // ESTE which is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and in the Indicative Mood , which means you better believe it and in the Plural which means that all saved by Grace are in the PRESENT TENSE .

And since we are ALL in Christ , 1 Cor 12:15-17 WE the ones saved by GRACE are Christ's , HANDS , HIS EARS , are his EYES , are His SENSE of HEARING , His SENSE of SMELLING

And 1 COR 6:2 and 3 Grace believers will GOVERN the UNIVERSE and GOVERN ANGELS .

This is why we are NOT and NEVER be under the NEW COVENANT , PERIOD !!

dan p

 

[B Griffin]

Yes I did !!

The NEW COVENANT is for Israel ONLY and Not for the BODY of Christ , PERIOD is my point .

We ARE // ESTE which is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and in the Indicative Mood , which means you better believe it and in the Plural which means that all saved by Grace are in the PREASEN TENSE .

And since we are ALL in Christ , 1 Cor 12:15-17 WE the ones saved by GRACE are Christ's , HANDS , HIS EARS , are his EYES , are His SENSE of HEARING , His SENSE of SMELLING

And 1 COR 6:2 and 3 Grace believers will GOVERN the UNIVERSE and GOVERN ANGELS .

This is why we are NOT and NEVER be under the NEW COVENANT , PERIOD !!

dan p

Just repeating the claim that we are not under the new covenant does not answer the question.

Every element mentioned in the new covenant applies to us. He put His law in our minds, and wrote it on our hearts; He is our God, and we are His people. No one needs to teach us to know God because we all know Him, from the least of us to the greatest of us. And He has forgiven our iniquity, and our sins He will remember no more. (Je 31:33–34)

And there is no getting around these verses that say Jesus' sacrifice of Himself is the blood of the new covenant for the remission of sins and that He is the mediator of the new covenant...

Matt 26:28For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.​

Mark 14:24And He said to them, “This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.​

Luke 22:20Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.​

1 Cor 11:25In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”​

Heb 9:15And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.​

Heb 12:24to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.​

So, if we don't receive the benefits of the new covenant, how do we get the same benefits? There's a different path for us?

 

[keepitsimple144]

We are not Jewish? I have been circumcised what more do they want?

Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. Galatians 6:14-16

 

[Dan Perez]

Just repeating the claim that we are not under the new covenant does not answer the question.

Every element mentioned in the new covenant applies to us. He put His law in our minds, and wrote it on our hearts; He is our God, and we are His people. No one needs to teach us to know God because we all know Him, from the least of us to the greatest of us. And He has forgiven our iniquity, and our sins He will remember no more. (Je 31:33–34)

And there is no getting around these verses that say Jesus' sacrifice of Himself is the blood of the new covenant for the remission of sins and that He is the mediator of the new covenant...

Matt 26:28For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.​

Mark 14:24And He said to them, “This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.​

Luke 22:20Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.​

1 Cor 11:25In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”​

Heb 9:15And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.​

Heb 12:24to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.​

So, if we don't receive the benefits of the new covenant, how do we get the same benefits? There's a different path for us?

Can you mentioned what the ELEMENTS that are in the NEW COVENANT TODAY ?/

I count at least 6 elements and there are more !!

And will you provide a verse as to How anyone is saved by the NEW COVENANT today ?

And where will these New Covenant believers spend ETERNITY , with a verses ?

dan p

 

[Diamond7]

Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. Galatians 6:14-16

We do 100% have to be circumcised in order to be saved. WE have to follow ALL of the law of God. Paul explains this in Romans 2:29

"circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Deuteronomy 30:6
The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, and you will love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

 

[keepitsimple144]

We are not Jewish? I have been circumcised what more do they want?

Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. Galatians 6:14-16

We do 100% have to be circumcised in order to be saved. WE have to follow ALL of the law of God. Paul explains this in Romans 2:29
"circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
Deuteronomy 30:6 The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts ...

Which has nothing to do with circumcising your johnson.
And you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, Colossians 2:10-12

 

[Diamond7]

Which has nothing to do with circumcising your johnson.

I do not remember talking about a 'johnson". The Bible is clear that it is not the literal law but the symbolic law we have to follow.

 

[keepitsimple144]

We are not Jewish? I have been circumcised what more do they want?

"Newborn boys are circumcised in a traditional ceremony called a brit milah, where the foreskin of the penis is removed by a religious figure, known as a mohel, on the 8th day after birth.
This ceremony is important for many Jewish people as it is a symbol of the covenant that God made with Abraham."

I do not remember talking about a 'johnson". The Bible is clear that it is not the literal law but the symbolic law we have to follow.

The circumcision ceremonial ritual is of no avail.
For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?
And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? Rom 2:25-28

We do 100% have to be circumcised in order to be saved. WE have to follow ALL of the law of God. Paul explains this in Romans 2:29
"circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God. Deuteronomy 30:6 The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts ...

The covenant confirmed by God in Christ
Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a Servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, Rom 15:8

And you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, Colossians 2:10-12

Finally, brethren, rejoice in the Lord...[Through whom we have now received the reconciliation. Rom 5:11]
For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, Phil 3:1-3

Aristarchus, Mark the cousin of Barnabas and Jesus who is called Justus. These are my fellow workers for the kingdom of God who are of the circumcision; Col 4:10-11

 

[B Griffin]

Can you mentioned what the ELEMENTS that are in the NEW COVENANT TODAY ?/

I count at least 6 elements and there are more !!

Sure, no problem. I mentioned all the elements that were in the new covenant that are in Jeremiah's prophecy of the new covenant. I'll repeat those here:

Every element mentioned in the new covenant applies to us. He put His law in our minds, and wrote it on our hearts; He is our God, and we are His people. No one needs to teach us to know God because we all know Him, from the least of us to the greatest of us. And He has forgiven our iniquity, and our sins He will remember no more. (Je 31:33–34)​

And I'll happily amplify those things for you.

• He put His law in our minds and wrote it on our hearts by coming to live in us in the person of the Holy Spirit.
• He is our God and we are His people, not superficially, but in nature because Him coming to live in our hearts makes us new creatures and joins us to Him.
• No one needs to teach us to know God, because He personally reveals Himself to us from the intimacy of our own hearts.
• And all our failures to live up to His righteous requirements are forgiven because He laid on Jesus the iniquity of us all.

And will you provide a verse as to How anyone is saved by the NEW COVENANT today ?

Absolutely...

• Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. (Heb 9:1)
• 6 Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. 7 But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people’s sins committed in ignorance; 8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. (Heb 9:6–8)
• 11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. (Heb 9:11–15)

And where will these New Covenant believers spend ETERNITY , with a verses ?

• First Covenant: 23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. (Heb 7:23)
  New Covenant: 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. (Heb 7:23–25)

dan p

Dan, you can't be so familiar with the Bible and not get the fact that Jesus sacrificed Himself to reconcile to God those who were lost to sin, can you? If you do not believe the promises God has given people over the ages (Abraham, the Psalmist(s), Jeremiah, etc) concerning the reconciliation that was to come in Christ, you must still belive that Christ's sacrifice was for your own sins too, right?

 

[Diamond7]

The circumcision ceremonial ritual is of no avail.

None of the rituals avail. As David said:

Psalm 51:16
For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You take no pleasure in burnt offerings.

The conservative Rabbi keep the rituals even without the temple. But they know it is just an object lesson.

 

[Dan Perez]

We do 100% have to be circumcised in order to be saved. WE have to follow ALL of the law of God. Paul explains this in Romans 2:29

"circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Deuteronomy 30:6
The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, and you will love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

And I see that many still believe that they sill have to believe that the OLD COVENANT is still in operation !!

Gal 5:3 says that every man being CIRCUMCISED that he is a DEBTOR to DO the WHOLE // OIOS // is in the ACCUSATIVE CASE and this case means LIMITED to the Whole Law , and is in the Greek SINGULAR meaning the Law of Moses ,

The whole LAW // NOMOS , in the the ACCUSATIVE CASE and also means and points to the Law of Moses .

It seems you have no choice , do you ?

dan p

 

[eleos1954]

The new covenant is "new", as attested to by God (according to the writer of Hebrews).

In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. (Heb 8:13)​

God used the word, "new" purpose when He told Jeremiah of the new covenant which was to come because He was indicating that the first covenant was going to be made obsolete. That's why one is called "old" and the other is called "new". The fact that the new covenant is better than the old covenant does not detract from the fact that it is new.

“But now hath He [Christ] obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also He is the Mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, He saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in My covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

The "old" covenant = keep my law and statues (people unable to do it_

The "new" covenant - keep my law and statues (through Jesus He will help people to do it)

The difference between these two covenants lies in the character of the promises. In the old covenant some of these were made by God and some by the people (of which they did not keep). In the new covenant they are all made by the Lord.

“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put My laws (not new laws) into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people; and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that He saith, A new covenant, He hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” Hebrews 8:6-13.

It's the same promises made by God ... through the faith of Jesus He helps us to repent and turn away from sin (transgression of the law) ... we will indeed mess up here and there ... but the Lord will finish His work ... because He is faithful.

Throughout the entire Bible it is about the promises God makes and us believing those promises will be fulfilled by Him ... that is faith.

Grace is God choosing to save and bless us rather than destroy us as our sin deserves. Ephesians 2:8 says, “For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves.” The only way any of us can enter into a relationship with God is because of His grace toward us.

God never changes. His principles never change ... He is not a shifting shadow.
From Adam and Eve, until now and until He returns .... our relationship with God has and is based on faith (promises of God) ... that is .... we believe God WILL do all that He said He will do and this is nothing new.

The codified old covenant was based on the promises of men and women who hoped to gain salvation by their own effort of obedience (unobtainable). The codified new covenant, or everlasting covenant, on the other hand, is a one-sided promise by God to write His Law in the hearts of His people (See Heb 8:10-12; Jer 31:31-34).3 The people need only to accept God’s promise by faith in order for the covenant to become active in their lives. It is a promise of righteousness in Jesus which translates into everlasting life.

Adam & Eve ... and those thereafter saved by faith (believing the promises of God) through grace ... nothing new.

The earthly sanctuary system was put in place as an example for us of how salvation would take place ... through Messiah to come and Him being the final sacrifice for all for all time .... the earthly sacrificial system and ordinances were done away with no longer needed ... not Gods laws. If Gods law (the 10) were done away with then there is no sin (meaning everyone would be saved) .... we know that certainly is not the case.

The lamb was slain before the creation of the world who would take aways the sins of the world .... this is the "new" (better) covenant in place before creation .... the ever lasting covenant. Everything for the redemption of mankind was put in place before creation. The bible accounts show us how everything has and is unfolding (providing us better understanding) to the end when our Lord returns.

The everlasting covenant is unchangeable since creation ... so there is nothing new ... all covenants in the bible is the renewing of the everlasting covenant of which is in Christ alone.

 

[Dan Perez]

“But now hath He [Christ] obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also He is the Mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, He saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in My covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

The "old" covenant = keep my law and statues (people unable to do it_

The "new" covenant - keep my law and statues (through Jesus He will help people to do it)

The difference between these two covenants lies in the character of the promises. In the old covenant some of these were made by God and some by the people (of which they did not keep). In the new covenant they are all made by the Lord.

“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put My laws (not new laws) into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people; and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that He saith, A new covenant, He hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” Hebrews 8:6-13.

It's the same promises made by God ... through the faith of Jesus He helps us to repent and turn away from sin (transgression of the law) ... we will indeed mess up here and there ... but the Lord will finish His work ... because He is faithful.

Throughout the entire Bible it is about the promises God makes and us believing those promises will be fulfilled by Him ... that is faith.

Grace is God choosing to save and bless us rather than destroy us as our sin deserves. Ephesians 2:8 says, “For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves.” The only way any of us can enter into a relationship with God is because of His grace toward us.

God never changes. His principles never change ... He is not a shifting shadow.
From Adam and Eve, until now and until He returns .... our relationship with God has and is based on faith (promises of God) ... that is .... we believe God WILL do all that He said He will do and this is nothing new.

The codified old covenant was based on the promises of men and women who hoped to gain salvation by their own effort of obedience (unobtainable). The codified new covenant, or everlasting covenant, on the other hand, is a one-sided promise by God to write His Law in the hearts of His people (See Heb 8:10-12; Jer 31:31-34).3 The people need only to accept God’s promise by faith in order for the covenant to become active in their lives. It is a promise of righteousness in Jesus which translates into everlasting life.

Adam & Eve ... and those thereafter saved by faith (believing the promises of God) through grace ... nothing new.

The earthly sanctuary system was put in place as an example for us of how salvation would take place ... through Messiah to come and Him being the final sacrifice for all for all time .... the earthly sacrificial system and ordinances were done away with no longer needed ... not Gods laws. If Gods law (the 10) were done away with then there is no sin (meaning everyone would be saved) .... we know that certainly is not the case.

The lamb was slain before the creation of the world who would take aways the sins of the world .... this is the "new" (better) covenant in place before creation .... the ever lasting covenant. Everything for the redemption of mankind was put in place before creation. The bible accounts show us how everything has and is unfolding (providing us better understanding) to the end when our Lord returns.

The everlasting covenant is unchangeable since creation ... so there is nothing new ... all covenants in the bible is the renewing of the everlasting covenant of which is in Christ alone.

Just look at what VINE'S , which has every Greek word in the bible says about

ETERNAL // AINIONIOS

ETERNAL // AION

EVERLASTING // AIONIOS

t will turn your head around a FEW times .

dan p

 

[eleos1954]

Just look at what VINE'S , which has every Greek word in the bible says about

ETERNAL // AINIONIOS

ETERNAL // AION

EVERLASTING // AIONIOS

t will turn your head around a FEW times .

dan p

Everlasting covenant.

AIONIOS

The KJV translates Strong's G166 in the following manner: eternal (42x), everlasting (25x), the world began (with G5550) (2x), since the world began (with G5550) (1x), for ever (1x).

I do search out using the Greek and Hebrew lexicons ... often provides clarity ... I use strong's mostly ... people have their preferences.