How to spot a false teacher concerning extrabiblical theology?

[SavedByGrace3]

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God"
Romans 10:17

My personal translation is "Faith comes by revelation, and revelation comes by a word spoken by Christ."

So the question is this. Is Christ limited to ONLY speak those things that are found in our truncated version of scripture? We know that there are books mentioned in scripture that have been lost in time. There are other books that contain genuine scripture, but that have been corrupted by copyists and others.

So is God going to be limited to what He shows us simply because we cannot find those books and the scriptures therein?
I do not think so. Christ can certainly speak a word into your heart, regardless of whether you can find it in the 66 books of the Bible, and that word will become faith within you.
I have things that I have assurances for that I cannot find in the Bible. There are hints and shadows of these assurances in the scripture. I find myself confessing them and standing on them because out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. It just comes out as a confession of faith.
I know I cannot convince others of these things, I rarely try.

That is my understanding...
Dids

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Curious as to what is being taught that is "extrabiblical"

The FIRST big issue is that Everybody SAYS they're teaching what "Scripture Says", but what they're REALLY doing is teaching their (or their denomination's INTERPRETATION) of what Scripture says. Their "Interpretation" may or may NOT be representative of "God's Word".

The Second big issue is that Scripture CAN BE, and IS written in such a way that it's fairly easy to produce Whatever "Interpretation" you want, by properly presenting Scriptural passages that PROVE your thesis, and skillfully explaining away Scriptural passages the tend to refute what you're teaching. It's how Denominational "Doctrines" and "Theologies" are generated. and they're all a mixture of TRUTH, and Error.

SO the problem is somewhat "involved", and is exacerbated by the simple FACT that Christians tend NOT to even READ their bibles, and are NOT generally knowledgeable about God's Word much past the most elementary levels.

I was asked once by a Nazarene Minister: "How can you protect people from Biblical Error when they WON'T BOTHER to research it for themselves??"

My Answer - YOU CAN'T!!! Biblical ignorance makes a person "FAIR GAME" for error. All you can really do is pray, and be around later to "Pick up the pieces".

 

[TasManOfGod]

Wow Bob you only 3 score and ten. You sound like you have the wisdom of an old man . Sounds like you dont like toxic non -WoF either

 

[Biblicist]

Interesting question!

I suppose a fairly good indicator of a false teacher is with the "white-shoes".

 

[RDKirk]

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God"
Romans 10:17

My personal translation is "Faith comes by revelation, and revelation comes by a word spoken by Christ."

So the question is this. Is Christ limited to ONLY speak those things that are found in our truncated version of scripture? We know that there are books mentioned in scripture that have been lost in time. There are other books that contain genuine scripture, but that have been corrupted by copyists and others.

So is God going to be limited to what He shows us simply because we cannot find those books and the scriptures therein?
I do not think so. Christ can certainly speak a word into your heart, regardless of whether you can find it in the 66 books of the Bible, and that word will become faith within you.
I have things that I have assurances for that I cannot find in the Bible. There are hints and shadows of these assurances in the scripture. I find myself confessing them and standing on them because out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. It just comes out as a confession of faith.
I know I cannot convince others of these things, I rarely try.

That is my understanding...
Dids

"Christ can speak a word into your heart" is called "prophesy," and there are principles relating to the handling of prophesy in 1 Corinthians.

Remember that Christ created the Body of Christ and He intends for us to be active members of the Body of Christ.

Within the Body of Christ is the means to determine if the "word in your heart" is truly a word spoken by Christ. Other members will affirm it.

If you cannot convince another member--that is, if your "word" is never affirmed by the Holy Spirit in other members...you may want to re-think the source.

 

[Yahu]

"Curious as to what is being taught that is "extrabiblical"

The FIRST big issue is that Everybody SAYS they're teaching what "Scripture Says", but what they're REALLY doing is teaching their (or their denomination's INTERPRETATION) of what Scripture says. Their "Interpretation" may or may NOT be representative of "God's Word".

The Second big issue is that Scripture CAN BE, and IS written in such a way that it's fairly easy to produce Whatever "Interpretation" you want, by properly presenting Scriptural passages that PROVE your thesis, and skillfully explaining away Scriptural passages the tend to refute what you're teaching. It's how Denominational "Doctrines" and "Theologies" are generated. and they're all a mixture of TRUTH, and Error.

SO the problem is somewhat "involved", and is exacerbated by the simple FACT that Christians tend NOT to even READ their bibles, and are NOT generally knowledgeable about God's Word much past the most elementary levels.

I was asked once by a Nazarene Minister: "How can you protect people from Biblical Error when they WON'T BOTHER to research it for themselves??"

My Answer - YOU CAN'T!!! Biblical ignorance makes a person "FAIR GAME" for error. All you can really do is pray, and be around later to "Pick up the pieces".

Well said. So few actually study to show themselves approved.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"My personal translation is "Faith comes by revelation, and revelation comes by a word spoken by Christ."

This, of course is the "Rhema" theory, which appears (in my opinion) to be accurate (although unfortunately the USE of the Greek term "Rhema" is not consistent throughout the Word).

It IS OBVIOUS, however, that "FAITH" (complying with it's Heb 11:1 definition) goes well past anything that a Human can produce internally as a "Mental Assent". Mark 11 details it "Belief WITHOUT DOUBT IN YOUR HEART". Without "revelation" of a personal nature, I don't see how THAT is even possible..

I'm dying of "Advanced Coronary Artery Disease" (the gift that keeps on taking), and I KNOW (intellectually) that "healing is in the atonement", and that by Biblical, and present demonstrations - God Heals. Case closed.

But I don't have so much as a particle of FAITH that He'll heal ME of my condition NOW. I have no "Revelation" of His will in the situation. and so I have NOTHING to base a claim of "Healing FAITH" on.
Simple as that. And IF Heart attack #14 comes along this afternnoon and takes me out - no big deal. I'm ready, and "Physical Death" is the ultimate healing anyway.

But God STILL Heals Folks in life according to His will.

Popular WoF teaches me to "Pretend" that I have faith, and to "Vocalize" the "Faith" that I supposedly have, and if I can do that consistently enough, for LONG enough, maybe God will "notice" and "do something".

The "Fly in the ointment", of course, is the simple FACT that "Revelation" can come from a number of VERY CONVINCING sources, and intimate knowledge of the Word is really the only "Safety" that we have.

Agnes Sanford comes to mind. She was a full Gospel Healing evangelist from the Episcopalian genre, with a proven ministry. But she also claimed a "Revelation" from God that we humans all have "Spiritual pre-existence" before we're born -

Maybe so, Maybe not. You Ain't finding THAT in the Bible, y'all!!!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Hi Bob,
Shockingly I agree with much of what you said. If you do not have the impartation of Christ's word then you do not have faith. I part with my dear WOF brothers on this point. Repeating a phrase over and over again does not bring faith. Christ brings faith. If HIS word (the ones HE speaks) does not live in you, then you are not going have "whatsoever you ask."

Not good or bad. No character issue here. Just a fact. Without the revelation there is no faith. A person can quote the scriptures from cover to cover and never have a dust particle of faith.

But revelation knowledge is not "new revelation" (such as the "pre-existence" thing you mentioned). Revelation knowledge is merely the process of Christ speaking into your spirit. Your spiritual eyes are opened and you receive spiritual knowledge that is the stuff of faith. You may or may not possess this knowledge in a mental form. Does not matter. Eventually, as we study, it will be clothed with the scripture. This is the true WOF teaching on the subject. I think it is correct.

And of course you are correct about the "rhema" issue. Rhema is merely a Greek word that means "saying." By itself it does not mean anything more than that. Only when Christ is doing the rhemaing does it have any spiritual significance.

Peace
Dids

"My personal translation is "Faith comes by revelation, and revelation comes by a word spoken by Christ."

This, of course is the "Rhema" theory, which appears (in my opinion) to be accurate (although unfortunately the USE of the Greek term "Rhema" is not consistent throughout the Word).

It IS OBVIOUS, however, that "FAITH" (complying with it's Heb 11:1 definition) goes well past anything that a Human can produce internally as a "Mental Assent". Mark 11 details it "Belief WITHOUT DOUBT IN YOUR HEART". Without "revelation" of a personal nature, I don't see how THAT is even possible..

I'm dying of "Advanced Coronary Artery Disease" (the gift that keeps on taking), and I KNOW (intellectually) that "healing is in the atonement", and that by Biblical, and present demonstrations - God Heals. Case closed.

But I don't have so much as a particle of FAITH that He'll heal ME of my condition NOW. I have no "Revelation" of His will in the situation. and so I have NOTHING to base a claim of "Healing FAITH" on.
Simple as that. And IF Heart attack #14 comes along this afternnoon and takes me out - no big deal. I'm ready, and "Physical Death" is the ultimate healing anyway.

But God STILL Heals Folks in life according to His will.

Popular WoF teaches me to "Pretend" that I have faith, and to "Vocalize" the "Faith" that I supposedly have, and if I can do that consistently enough, for LONG enough, maybe God will "notice" and "do something".

The "Fly in the ointment", of course, is the simple FACT that "Revelation" can come from a number of VERY CONVINCING sources, and intimate knowledge of the Word is really the only "Safety" that we have.

Agnes Sanford comes to mind. She was a full Gospel Healing evangelist from the Episcopalian genre, with a proven ministry. But she also claimed a "Revelation" from God that we humans all have "Spiritual pre-existence" before we're born -

Maybe so, Maybe not. You Ain't finding THAT in the Bible, y'all!!!

 

[Andrea411]

Hi,

Without using a circular arguement (because its false, or against my beliefs) how do you test false teachings when it cant
Be validated from scripture, being extrabiiblical. I am assuming that many extrabiblical things are not necessarily wrong
Just Because scripture does not mention it, please dont stray onto this as it makes the question meaningless.
Thanks

... does it point to Jesus, or does it point to the teacher or author. having come out of LDS and in trying to convert JWs, and debating with Adventists or Oneness Pentecostals.... they all have valid arguments that should be respected not bc they are correct bc we are all wrong somewhere but does it bring you into a closer relationship with Christ and can you read it in the scriptures or do they have to stand over you and tell you what they say it means.... otherwise treat is as just another theological interpretation... remember people have fought and died for their heresies, they don't give them up easily.... the gospel is simple and all the extra-biblical junk is in every denomination. In my opinion.... God wouldn't be able to stand us if we were saved and RIGHT!!! you see how people treat one another when they think they have the truth.... so the Lord has given us Himself... that is enough. Love God with all your heart, mind, strength, neighbor as self... when you get that right you can move on....
Be blessed, andrea

 

[Yahu]

Hi,

Without using a circular arguement (because its false, or against my beliefs) how do you test false teachings when it cant
Be validated from scripture, being extrabiiblical. I am assuming that many extrabiblical things are not necessarily wrong
Just Because scripture does not mention it, please dont stray onto this as it makes the question meaningless.
Thanks

Generally it takes the Holy Spirit to help with discernment of truth. Once you have been shown that truth by the HS, you should be able to find hints or conformation in scripture.

For example, I found what the Holy Spirit showed me was truth in the book of Enoch. After much research, I was able to confirm it in scripture but it require MUCH digging and study. For example the confirmation was found in Hebrew name meanings so wasn't obvious.

I had gained knowledge in a conflict against witchcraft conducted via the ancient paganism that was contrary to my understanding of scripture. I got confirmation about things I learned in Enoch then found confirmation in scripture. Mysteries are not clearly presented in scripture. That is why you can study your entire life and still find something new.

Now passages about that ancient paganism tend to stand out to me. I understand those passages that generally go right over most people's heads.

 

[now faith]

"My personal translation is "Faith comes by revelation, and revelation comes by a word spoken by Christ."

This, of course is the "Rhema" theory, which appears (in my opinion) to be accurate (although unfortunately the USE of the Greek term "Rhema" is not consistent throughout the Word).

It IS OBVIOUS, however, that "FAITH" (complying with it's Heb 11:1 definition) goes well past anything that a Human can produce internally as a "Mental Assent". Mark 11 details it "Belief WITHOUT DOUBT IN YOUR HEART". Without "revelation" of a personal nature, I don't see how THAT is even possible..

I'm dying of "Advanced Coronary Artery Disease" (the gift that keeps on taking), and I KNOW (intellectually) that "healing is in the atonement", and that by Biblical, and present demonstrations - God Heals. Case closed.

But I don't have so much as a particle of FAITH that He'll heal ME of my condition NOW. I have no "Revelation" of His will in the situation. and so I have NOTHING to base a claim of "Healing FAITH" on.
Simple as that. And IF Heart attack #14 comes along this afternnoon and takes me out - no big deal. I'm ready, and "Physical Death" is the ultimate healing anyway.

But God STILL Heals Folks in life according to His will.

Popular WoF teaches me to "Pretend" that I have faith, and to "Vocalize" the "Faith" that I supposedly have, and if I can do that consistently enough, for LONG enough, maybe God will "notice" and "do something".

The "Fly in the ointment", of course, is the simple FACT that "Revelation" can come from a number of VERY CONVINCING sources, and intimate knowledge of the Word is really the only "Safety" that we have.

Agnes Sanford comes to mind. She was a full Gospel Healing evangelist from the Episcopalian genre, with a proven ministry. But she also claimed a "Revelation" from God that we humans all have "Spiritual pre-existence" before we're born -

Maybe so, Maybe not. You Ain't finding THAT in the Bible, y'all!!!

Well Bob if number 14 comes along we will miss ya.

But bless God we will meet some day.

I like your post before this one it has been on my mind a lot.

With all the turmoil and UN Godly changes in society,now more than ever people need to study and read Gods Word for themselves.

Sadly some are like Parrots repeating what their told rather than holding what is taught in their Church to be confirmed by The Bible.

It takes a good theologian to confuse Gods Word.

Take care God bless.

 

[Alive_Again]

Popular WoF teaches me to "Pretend" that I have faith, and to "Vocalize" the "Faith" that I supposedly have, and if I can do that consistently enough, for LONG enough, maybe God will "notice" and "do something".

That's not the point of all of the speaking. We're to believe and not doubt. We're supposed to sow the Word in our hearts. It grows on it's own with the intended destiny of bearing fruit. We're supposed to sow seed in abundance. All of saying and meditating and doing make for the growth of that seed. It's not to convince God. You do this in hope (with faith in the seed) until faith comes. When it comes, you already have it.

Abraham provided the example of saying the same thing every time he said his new name. He had the image of hope every time he looked at the stars or the sand. He still didn't have the promise. He spoke his belief in God's promise and eventually (without having to get God's notice or convince Him or some vain attempt to "strongarm" Him.

Agnes Sanford comes to mind. She was a full Gospel Healing evangelist from the Episcopalian genre, with a proven ministry. But she also claimed a "Revelation" from God that we humans all have "Spiritual pre-existence" before we're born -

Sounds like what Kat Kerr is saying. Although God is not adding to the Bible (although Acts continues to this day), God is still revealing. Remember John the Baptist and his message of baptism and repentance. That wasn't in the Bible either (their Bible). You have to bear witness to it.

It's not that vital to believe that, but if you're being led to her ministry and you stumble at that point, then it's important to at least be willing to revise your theology.

The whole "seed time and harvest" revelation Charles Capps had really picked me up by the collar and held me upright when I was a fairly new believer. God talked about sowing and doing the things that make for growth of that seed, and following it through to harvest time. That's when faith comes. You believe along the way. The image of what you need is in the seed. It's not supposed to be a big effort. The seed does the work. But it is the good fight of faith to not be doubleminded. By violence we enter into the things of the kingdom. Not because God is out to make it hard, but rather because the enemy always comes to steal the Word. He comes to block the revelation.

The best thing you have to offer is a good and soft heart, a teachable mind, and as you say, the Word of God. Nothing is impossible.

 

[now faith]

God left certain things as a mystery for very good reason; we really can't handle it all AND God wants certain things to belong to the realm of faith.

Deuto 29:29 says "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever . . ."

I'm okay when a preacher/teacher introduces some speculation as long as its clear that its just fun to think about some topics and as long as its brief and isn't used for basing decisions or practices on and it quickly returns to the primary job of preaching the known Word of God.

But today, there are too many who seem to only teach on extra-Biblical stuff and they treat it as fact. This is a real problem. The moment you have to discern it, as you say, that means too much emphasis is being placed on something God chose to leave as a mystery. And the moment I hear one of these ministries talking about all the extra-Biblical stuff they've supposedly seen, I know that they are either lying or they are tapping into demonic sources for information and experiences. How can I be sure? Because the secret things belong to the Lord. If He wanted such things revealed, He would have done so in Scripture. When individuals like Paul are given rare insight, its because God trusts them to maintain the humility needed to guard the Lord's secrets.

I think anyone whose ministry seems to focus on the activities of angels, portals and heavenly visitations are in major sin and are getting their info and experiences from demonic sources, not the Lord. The Lord spoke to me in 2005 saying He has turned these ministries over to their sin; since they persist in seeking after signs, He no longer holds back the demonic powers from giving them exactly what they seek.

Hogwash.

You can not judge a persons walk with God,in that God never speaks to their inner witness.

Nor can you refute dreams visions and seeing and knowing.

I agree that such things are subject to falsehoods,and new teaching such as the Joseph Smith revelation is what is the presumed the question hear.

The Bible teaches us to test the Spirits,their motives are easy to recognize,God will never give you anything that contradicts his word.

Be careful who you judge as some have entertained Angels unawares.

 

[Yahu]

Hogwash.

You can not judge a persons walk with God,in that God never speaks to their inner witness.

Nor can you refute dreams visions and seeing and knowing.

I agree that such things are subject to falsehoods,and new teaching such as the Joseph Smith revelation is what is the presumed the question hear.

The Bible teaches us to test the Spirits,their motives are easy to recognize,God will never give you anything that contradicts his word.

Be careful who you judge as some have entertained Angels unawares.

I agree.

And mysteries can be dug out of scripture by those that study to show ourselves approved. There are MANY concepts in scripture that are not spelled out plainly but require much digging to uncover.

For example, the concept of the Watchers as presented in Enoch is also presented in scriptures but 99.9% of the readers will totally miss the passages that confirm it. For example, things are often hidden in the meanings of names that get transliterated verses having the meaning translated. It helps to know a bit of Hebrew.

A good example of this is the 'field of Zophim' in the story of Balaam and the talking donkey. The 'field of Zophim' was a pagan holy place Balaam used to do one of his sacrifices and means 'field of the Watchers' and was a location sacred to the goddess Asherah on Mt Pisgah. Pisgah is a reference to Asherah.

We have the NT parable of the wheat and tares that the enemy sowed his seed in the field that is the earth. Asherah was 'mother earth' to the Canaanites and the mother of the pagan gods. She is the 'field' that Satan sowed his seed to produce the tares. That is who the ancient pagan gods were.

That is just an example of that confirmation. There are LOTS of other confirmations but many are rooted in name meanings like every place and city name in the land of Canaan. Those names are full of references, attributes and such of the pagan gods/goddesses they followed.

Now can the religious texts of those ancient pagan practices be used to understand their ways and doctrines of that paganism? Of course it can. Then you can find scriptures that directly oppose the pagan doctrines by the prophets that are battling those pagan influences in Israel.

Even the Code of Hammurabi gives insight into the arguments in Job. Eliphaz is basically quoting Babylonian sun god doctrine to Job.

Being a biblical scholar requires going to non-canon works for additional information to help understand scriptural references.

 

[Juelrei]

What are you comparing it to? Orthodoxy?

Jesus had this exact problem with the pharisees who wanted a messiah
to fit in with their own religious theology, PLEASE dont make this same mistake with the holy spirit.

I would make the comparison of false teachings to what God's revealed word and truth says.

The pharisees were so entrenched in their own religious traditions that they were blinded to the truth when it stood right in front of them in the person of Jesus.

Jesus nailed their problem, and vindicated himself but it didn't at that time change them.
However, there were such as the apostle Paul who changed on the road to Damascus.

The scriptures are still inspired of God and available for the correction of error.

 

[Tobias]

"My personal translation is "Faith comes by revelation, and revelation comes by a word spoken by Christ."

This, of course is the "Rhema" theory, which appears (in my opinion) to be accurate (although unfortunately the USE of the Greek term "Rhema" is not consistent throughout the Word).

It IS OBVIOUS, however, that "FAITH" (complying with it's Heb 11:1 definition) goes well past anything that a Human can produce internally as a "Mental Assent". Mark 11 details it "Belief WITHOUT DOUBT IN YOUR HEART". Without "revelation" of a personal nature, I don't see how THAT is even possible..

I'm dying of "Advanced Coronary Artery Disease" (the gift that keeps on taking), and I KNOW (intellectually) that "healing is in the atonement", and that by Biblical, and present demonstrations - God Heals. Case closed.

But I don't have so much as a particle of FAITH that He'll heal ME of my condition NOW. I have no "Revelation" of His will in the situation. and so I have NOTHING to base a claim of "Healing FAITH" on.
Simple as that. And IF Heart attack #14 comes along this afternnoon and takes me out - no big deal. I'm ready, and "Physical Death" is the ultimate healing anyway.

But God STILL Heals Folks in life according to His will.

Popular WoF teaches me to "Pretend" that I have faith, and to "Vocalize" the "Faith" that I supposedly have, and if I can do that consistently enough, for LONG enough, maybe God will "notice" and "do something".

The "Fly in the ointment", of course, is the simple FACT that "Revelation" can come from a number of VERY CONVINCING sources, and intimate knowledge of the Word is really the only "Safety" that we have.

Agnes Sanford comes to mind. She was a full Gospel Healing evangelist from the Episcopalian genre, with a proven ministry. But she also claimed a "Revelation" from God that we humans all have "Spiritual pre-existence" before we're born -

Maybe so, Maybe not. You Ain't finding THAT in the Bible, y'all!!!

Once again, I'm blessed by your post.

I've been going through an illness myself for the past few months. I know that the key to "getting my healing" is not for me to read a bunch of relevant scriptures and make confessions of faith. But simply to make my needs known to God, and wait for the proper timing when He says it's time to heal me. Job's sickness was a part of his trial, and the only way he was going to get over it was after he learned the lesson and/or passed the test!

When I read the scripture "Faith comes by hearing..." I immediately think of all the times Jesus said "To him who has ears to hear..." I take this to mean that there is a spiritual aspect to hearing, because many people who heard Jesus teach didn't actually hear it. Does that make sense? I've never actually done a study on what "hearing" means, in the light of how Jesus used it (and is used in the book of Revelation too: "To him who has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches." ) Nor do I think I've ever come across a study done by others.

Has anybody else run into that, or make the same connection when the read "faith comes by hearing..."??

Agnes Sanford comes to mind. She was a full Gospel Healing evangelist from the Episcopalian genre, with a proven ministry. But she also claimed a "Revelation" from God that we humans all have "Spiritual pre-existence" before we're born -

Maybe so, Maybe not. You Ain't finding THAT in the Bible, y'all!!!

Lol. What about this?



Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

 

[Alive_Again]

I've been going through an illness myself for the past few months. I know that the key to "getting my healing" is not for me to read a bunch of relevant scriptures and make confessions of faith. But simply to make my needs known to God, and wait for the proper timing when He says it's time to heal me.

The whole thing with the so called "faith movement" is that Jesus has ALREADY done ALL He is going to do regarding your healing. The Father sent Jesus, who paid the price for our healing. He gave us His Word and He is our High Priest. For those who believe and receive from Him, the Holy Spirit gets into the act by confirming the Word with signs following. The catch is that you have to believe. You have to have faith. (BTW, you can believe and NOT have faith.)

I like what God told this one prophet during a visitation to the throne. It went something like, "Hope is the expectation that what you desire will come to pass at any moment." Hope points to the future expectantly. We must have hope before we have faith. Hope is NOT faith.

Faith is that spiritual substance in the spirit of a man/woman that has it NOW. It has to be acted upon in belief to bring it into the natural realm. That is when your seed grew into the stalk and you have your harvest. The example at the man Peter saw had faith to be healed, had to act on it to receive his healing.

God MIGHT heal you if He visits you in some service with the healing anointing, and you "hear" and receive faith. You might mix whatever state your believing is with that anointing and over a short time, bring into manifestation your healing (with faith). MANY people who receive this way have their healing stolen outright in a short time, or it comes back years later. You must have faith in the promise.

You can ALWAYS ask God for whatever you desire (scripturally, which healing is). The catch is that you must be in faith believing. Saving faith is not the same as having faith for your healing.

A way to get faith is to plant the seed of the Word regarding healing into your heart. You get a revelation from God that His promise is for you. You plant it (in hope, with faith in the seed). Faith in the seed came by hearing in your spirit. The life of that promise is contained in the seed itself. Your job is to protect your heart and follow that planting to maturity so that faith can come. You cannot doubt and be doubleminded, or you know what you'll get.

So how do you not become doubleminded along the way? You fight the good fight of faith. You lay hold, by violence from the enemy and your flesh and any part of you unrenewed. You do that by doing warfare with the prophecies of scripture (His Word), with any personal prophecies, with the knowledge of God and His faithfulness. You confess/profess His Word. The Word is "pregnant" with power and your releasing it by speaking it from your mouth helps to "birth" the promise in your heart (called a seed/stalk/full ear depending on where you are in the process of time).

Here's the "trick" and you can reject this or not...

You're "fighting" doublemindedness for that scecific promise. That specific planting is a precious promise of God. You affirm it by meditating on it day and night. You reaffirm it at the first sign of doublemindedness, you profess it again! You affirm it to release power in the Word. You become in agreement with Word. God heard you the first time, but you're rising up in the inner man against all that opposes. You worship God as your healer, you thank Him for the "finished work". He's not "going to" heal you. He's already healed you.

The life of the promise is in the seed, and it's not because you repeat it that it comes to fruition, but repeating it and doing warfare in the name of renewal is all in the process (look at Joshua 1:8).

I say this humbly, but if you think you can sit back and wait for God to bring it to pass (not faith) without contending earnestly for that promise... I would strongly urge to reconsider.

You (we) don't believe just because we want to. We believe because of what is in abundance in our hearts. The power is in the promise itself and our job is to align ourselves with the plan of God to provide optimum growing conditions.

Praying in the Spirit, speaking the Word day and night, abounding in thanksgiving (for what He already did for us), what He IS doing for us, meditating on the Word, etc., are your keys for renewal, employing the very weapons for your fight.

It really won't be accomplished by "just waiting for it to come. We do have patience, but the "waiting on the Lord" is done by abiding in the presence of God in the atmosphere He manifests in. One full of His praises, affirmations of faith, and all manner of prayer. Faith says, "I have it now!", and if your heart isn't at that place, at best, it is still in the hope stage. When the stalk reaches maturity, it's harvest time (I have it now, if you declare it or move on it as the Spirit directs!). All unbelief negates what the seed is given for. All the cares of this world and hard heartedness all promote unbelief,so the fight is an active one, not a passive waiting.

I hope you got this, and get a good revelation about the seed of the Word of God and our part in fighting the good fight of faith, laying hold...

 

[Tobias]

Jesus prayed:

Luke 22:42
saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”

He knew that even as he hung on the cross, he could have asked for ten thousand angels to take him down. But he didn't, because he had faith that what he was going through was God's will for him.

Had Jesus gone against the will of the Father and "by faith" commanded healing from the stripes and/or salvation from the cross, would it actually have been faith that saved him? Or witchcraft?

 

[Alive_Again]

He knew that even as he hung on the cross, he could have asked for ten thousand angels to take him down. But he didn't, because he had faith that what he was going through was God's will for him.

Yes, it was God's plan for Jesus to take on the penalty for the sin of mankind. That's quite a bit different from positioning yourself to receive your healing.

Jesus, on the cross, paid the penalty for God's broken law for the punishment of our sins, for our financial needs, for our physical wholeness. It's totally by grace that we enter into those things. Completely by faith.

Had Jesus gone against the will of the Father and "by faith" commanded healing from the stripes and/or salvation from the cross, would it actually have been faith that saved him? Or witchcraft?

We don't have to ask God is it is His will for our provision, our forgiveness for sins, or for anything else He provided for in the New Covenant. He took our infirmities and sicknesses/weaknesses/infirmities. In God's mind, He did it even before He paid for it (He ministered it while He lived). By His stripes we were healed.

This is something you have get the revelation for. No man can really give it to you. A man would preach it, but it would be the spiritual hearing that bears witness to that message that would allow you to have faith in the seed of that promise. You have to be able to receive it as a promise of God.

Any real need that you or me or anyone would have was surely paid for at calvary by Jesus -- It is finished. We don't have to bring Him down to do it again. If you believe it might be God's will for you to retain your sickness, how will you be able to believe Him for it? What promise will you be going by?

Could it possibly be, "whatsoever things ye desire"? Could you be "who soever"? If so, then if you can believe God for it, He will give it to you. As Jesus said, "whatsoever" things (ye desire) you believe in prayer, "ye" shall have them.

Thank God for those "apostles of faith" who have learned how to obtain promises, whose faith we can imitate. If you really desire it, and you are "whosoever", you can have it. God is no respecter of persons.

It is my privilege to remind you that the power is in the promise.

If you meditate on the Word of God regarding the above promise, or 1 Peter 3:9 about Jesus' stripes, and are open to God for truth, you can be like I was that day back in 1984 at the corner of Garland Rd. and Jupiter. I got the revelation! I was never convinced before. I ALWAYS had reservations. But totally beyond the natural mind and every objection I had, the light shown and I had faith in the promise as a seed. It's up to me to lay hold on it and appropriate it for myself. It's a fight and the enemy typically won't let it go unopposed.

 

[lismore]

Hi,

Without using a circular arguement (because its false, or against my beliefs) how do you test false teachings when it cant
Be validated from scripture, being extrabiiblical. I am assuming that many extrabiblical things are not necessarily wrong
Just Because scripture does not mention it, please dont stray onto this as it makes the question meaningless.
Thanks

There is a lot of wonderful teaching that can come from the bible, there are so many books of the bible that are hardly taught on at all. It's a shame.

Therefore when someone comes with 'extrabiblical teachings' it's at best second best. Like going to visit a Scottish Whisky distillery and not being offered any whisky to taste.

You've got to scratch your head and wonder why.