How Old Is The Earth

[Akita Suggagaki]

Why would God attempt to deceive us with compelling physical evidence of a very old Earth (billions of years)?

 

[Platte]

Why would God attempt to deceive us with compelling physical evidence of a very old Earth (billions of years)?

Strange question considering the perfect Creation he made. Everything in this universe and on earth is exactly perfect for us for living. I mean it’s perfect! Everything is lined up perfectly for us to live there. Everything God created in those 6 days was old. Adam was a man. Trees and animals were old. That’s the miracle of creation and the beauty of it. If you had to create a universe and earth in 6 days I would think this is exactly what you’d create. I can’t think of what could have been different or better. We do know this is what He created. He even gave a book telling us when and how long it took to create this world. Him telling us when and what with great precision is obviously not deceit

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Strange question considering the perfect Creation he made. Everything in this universe and on earth is exactly perfect for us for living. I mean it’s perfect! Everything is lined up perfectly for us to live there. Everything God created in those 6 days was old. Adam was a man. Trees and animals were old. That’s the miracle of creation and the beauty of it. If you had to create a universe and earth in 6 days I would think this is exactly what you’d create. I can’t think of what could have been different or better. We do know this is what He created. He even gave a book telling us when and how long it took to create this world. Him telling us when and what with great precision is obviously not deceit

All physical evidence indicates an Earth much older than 6,000 years.

 

[Platte]

All physical evidence indicates an Earth much older than 6,000 years.

If the purpose of Creation was to support life (man) on earth then I’d say Creation was perfect. I mean everything is perfect.

God created the universe as we see it and it is perfect. Which also tells me Creation could not have been done any other way.

What would you expect different if you were creating the world 6000 years ago in 6 days? Isn’t what we have exactly what you’d create?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

If the purpose of Creation was to support life (man) on earth then I’d say Creation was perfect. I mean everything is perfect.

God created the universe as we see it and it is perfect. Which also tells me Creation could not have been done any other way.

What would you expect different if you were creating the world 6000 years ago in 6 days? Isn’t what we have exactly what you’d create?

I wouldn't create layers that indicate millions of years of history including fossils and continental drift.
But it is indeed perfect and beautiful and beyond our comprehension.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm not a YEC...but I do believe the earth was created 6000 years ago and in 6 days as the Bible says.
Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

It doesnt say he created the skies and the land - I checked over 50 versions - they all say heaven and the earth.

And what are "the heavens" and "the earth"? The English word "heaven" in its most basic sense means the sky, from the Anglo-Saxon heofon, "the visible sky". And the word "earth" means what? We still use the word "earth" to describe the dirt or land under our feet, the same as the Anglo-Saxon word eorþe meant.

The Hebrew words mean the skies, the heavens, these are synonymous concepts. It's right there in Genesis chapter 1,

"And God said, 'Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.' And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. And God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day." - Genesis 1:6-8

The waters below the expanse are what will be called "sea" in the following few passages, and the dry ground is called "earth" (Genesis 1:9-10)

Just because you read translations and you have your own presuppositions about what "heaven" and "earth" mean doesn't mean you are reading the Bible correctly. "Earth" here is not a round ball orbiting around the sun, it's the solid ground beneath your feet; and "Heaven" is not the extra-created ineffable realm of the Divine, but that great big expanse you see when you look up, where clouds float by and the sun rises and sets.

Put yourself in the sandals of someone living three thousand years ago in the ancient near east, how would they understand these things?

Water, like every other mineral and material on earth is part of the earth. The earth has water...it has land...it has many many minerals and elements.

That's a very modern way of looking at it, where "earth" refers to this planet we live on, with a molten core, that is tilted on its axis and moves through its orbit around the sun, located in an arm of the Milky Way galaxy.

That isn't what the biblical writers meant by eretz. And this is obvious by the explicit words of the text of Genesis 1, again look at Genesis 1:9-10.

When God created the earth it was without form - no peaks and valleys - that is why the water covered the whole earth. By creating form (peaks and valleys), the water gathered together and the dry land appeared. Its not complicated.

The Hebrew says the eretz was tohu and bohu, Both words suggest the concept of emptiness, of a wasteland, tohu can also mean confusion, or chaos; bohu again means empty, or a wasteland. Look at how these words are used elsewhere in the Old Testament. The meaning here is that the earth, the eretz--the land--was empty, it was disordered, chaotic.

God then shapes, gives form, and fills the empty earth. We see this happening over the course of the days of creation, starting on day 3 where the eretz, separated from the waters, produces plants, and then God on day 6 fills the eretz with beasts and creeping, crawling things.

What was the light source? - we don't know...but we do know there was one. Any single major light source, whether its the sun or not, with a revolving earth would create an evening and a morning on the earth.

But that isn't what the text says. You have to add that to the text.

God said "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is," I take that literally. That is what the Bible says...what God said.

One of my favorite movies is History of Violence - ok yeah maybe not appropriate for most...but the very ending scene the bodyguards are positioned perfectly to kill the nemesis...I mean its a sure and easy kill...but they fail and the boss says how do you mess that up 2 times.

God has been so clear that the earth was created in 6 days (even gives you a description of it by saying an evening and a morning) - yet you cant even get it right...I mean how do you mess that up? Unbelievable to me that you can't get this simple statement from God correct - how do you mess that up - You (and others) make up all sorts of reasoning for it too...even change the meaning of the word "day" LOL. How do you mess that up?!!!!

You aren't taking the Bible literally. You are imposing your own ideas and forcing them onto the Bible.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jipsah]

If a thousand years for us is but a day for God, in God's eyes this should make the earth 7 + 6 = 13 days old, am I right ?

No, the point is/was that God isn't bound by time as we are, not that He simply uses a different clock.
Psalm 90:4 "A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night."

God takes as long as He takes, and our reckoning of time is irrelevant to Him.

 

[Jipsah]

He even gave a book telling us when and how long it took to create this world. Him telling us when and what with great precision is obviously not deceit

Except that if He did what you say He intentionally designed the creation to look like it took a zillion years. That would be deception, wouldn't it? Yeah, He created the universe 3 years ago, in six days, but He made all this stuff that makes it look like it took a long time. Why woui;d He do that? My response? He didn't do that. The "six days" is a pedagogical device to convey that God created everything in the universe, and did so in an orderly fashion. You aren't meant to set your watch by it.

 

[Jipsah]

So nevermind that God said he created everything 6000 years ago..

Or at least His scribe expressed it that way.

..What does Science have to do with WHEN Creation was.

By looking at what was created an saying "this took a really long time", which is meaningful to us, but not to God. God may have done it in a nanosecond by His Rolex..

...thats a historical question not scientific one.

It's both.

...History supports a 6000 year ago creation?

History tells us that Pharoah Rootintootin the 8th build the pyramids, but I'm betting he never worked on it at all.

Why do you keep noting Science when it comes to the timeline of Creation?

Because it shows us how old stuff is in human terms.

Do you not believe Adam was created from dust in an instant?

Could be, it that's how God wanted to do it. But saying "God had to do it thus and so"is ridiculous. I mean, sez who? If God wanted to create Adam in .37 microseconds, what's it to you? If He evolved Adam through 1800 prior revisions, you gonna call Him out on it? Good luck with that. Either way, He bloody well created Adam, and He didn't ask any of us to approve His methods, or the amount of time they took. Fundy's talk like if we see evidence that God took longer than the Bible says to create stuff then He's cheated them. That's arrogant rubbish, and flies in the face of SCriptures that say that God doesn't work on our timelines.

 

[Jipsah]

God is bringing order out from chaos, form from formlessness, vesting the universe with meaning and purpose, and is the God who made everything--which was a direct subversion and attack against pagan beliefs which viewed the cosmic forces of the world as divine. Rather than worshiping the sun as a god, the sun is the creation of God, who is Lord over the sun, the moon, and infinitely greater than the skies above and all that they contain.

That's what the text is actually talking about.

You means it's a religious document, and not a scientific tome? How can this be?

The KJV isn't authoritative, at least it's no more authoritative than any other translation. If you want to understand the Bible you have to do the legwork to actually read, and consider the context, and try and read it as the original audience and authors would have understood it. You can't read the Bible like a 21st century westerner reading a newspaper. Biblical literacy requires work.

Fundys are literalists when it suits them, and symbolicists when that suits them. It's their doctrine uber alles, and the truth can't be allowed to get in the way.

 

[Jipsah]

What was the light source? - we don't know...but we do know there was one.

Because your doctrine wouldn't work without one, so you create it ex nihilo. your doctrine wouldn't work without it.

Any single major light source, whether its the sun or not, with a revolving earth would create an evening and a morning on the earth.

God said "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is," I take that literally. That is what the Bible says...what God said.

What the scribe said, anyway.

God has been so clear that the earth was created in 6 days (even gives you a description of it by saying an evening and a morning)

Even when there was no sun (without you lot creating one) to make mornings and evenings.

- yet you cant even get it right.

Nah, the universe was createsd last Thursday. God just made it look old.

even change the meaning of the word "day" LOL. How do you mess that up?!!!!

We weren't willing to create a "sun" that isn't mentioned in Scripture. BTW, so much for literalism, huh?

 

[Diamond7]

God gave us a detailed chronology that tells us 6000 years.

Yes Adam and Eve lived 6,000 years ago. The question all has to do with how long a day is in Genesis chapter one. The Bible uses words like ancient, eternal, long lasting, forever and ever and with overwhelming evidence that a day is more then 24 hours you still want to cling to your false teaching. I would rather give praise, honor and glory to God that His tender mercy is forever and not just for a day. I believe that everlasting is just that, something that lasts forever.

The main thing is Noah's flood. Either the layers of the grand canyon were made by a flood, or the flood eroded away the canyon to expose billions of years of layers of geology. You cannot have it both ways, you have to choose one or the other. We know that God is everlasting and eternal, He is the ancient of day. Yet you think God is only 6,000 years old and ancient days do not exist.

This is why God questioned Job. Were you there at the beginning when God created the foundation of the world?

Job 38 God Challenges Job
…3Now brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall inform Me. 4Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding.

Job 15 …6Your own mouth, not mine, condemns you; your own lips testify against you. 7Were you the first man ever born? Were you brought forth before the hills? 8Do you listen in on the council of God or limit wisdom to yourself?…

Psalm 90 1A prayer of Moses the man of God. Lord, You have been our dwelling place through all generations. 2Before the mountains were born or You brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting You are God.

Everlasting is past and everlasting is future. Not just future.

Reminds me of the Jefferson Bible where people say he liked to cut words out of the Bible. God is infinite and there is so much there in the word of God and yet we all seem to want to ignore most of what God is telling us. We walk away with so little when there is so much there.

 

[Diamond7]

God just made it look old.

So God is a trickster? He wants to trick us into thinking the earth is old and ancient with an overwhelming abundance of evidence?

 

[Jipsah]

So God is a trickster? He wants to trick us into thinking the earth is old and ancient with an overwhelming abundance of evidence?

That's apparently what a god many YECs would have us believe.

 

[Diamond7]

many YECs would have us believe.

It is getting more and more that we are going to have to us GAP. God created everything in an instant, a trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second. In the beginning. If they think it took HIm a whole week that is fine. Depends on your perspective and what you are looking at.