How old is old? How ancient is ancient.

[Diamond7]

YEC people want scriptures that tell us the earth is old or ancient. So we show them the scriptures in Isaiah, Psalms and Job, Then they try to say ancient does not mean ancient and old does not mean old. It is the KJV that uses these words. So does that mean they are NOT KJV only? If they try to claim old is not old, ancient is not ancient and KJV is not the word of God.

They call themselves YEC for young earth, then try to say old means young. Why do they contradict themselves?
The fact is the KJV uses old and ancient no matter how much of a tap dance they try to do to explain that away.

• The tension arises when YEC proponents attempt to reconcile scientific findings (such as an ancient cosmos) with their literal interpretation of the Bible.
• Some engage in creative explanations or interpretive gymnastics to harmonize these seemingly contradictory perspectives.
• While the KJV consistently uses terms like “old” and “ancient”, the challenge lies in fitting these concepts into a young Earth timeline3.

 

[Vambram]

6,000 to 10,000 years is ancient and extremely old.

I will not use man's interpretation of science in order to interpret the Bible if a human's interpretation of science contradicts easy to understand passages of the Bible.

 

[AlexB23]

YEC people want scriptures that tell us the earth is old or ancient. So we show them the scriptures in Isaiah, Psalms and Job, Then they try to say ancient does not mean ancient and old does not mean old. It is the KJV that uses these words. So does that mean they are NOT KJV only? If they try to claim old is not old, ancient is not ancient and KJV is not the word of God.

They call themselves YEC for young earth, then try to say old means young. Why do they contradict themselves?
The fact is the KJV uses old and ancient no matter how much of a tap dance they try to do to explain that away.

• The tension arises when YEC proponents attempt to reconcile scientific findings (such as an ancient cosmos) with their literal interpretation of the Bible.
• Some engage in creative explanations or interpretive gymnastics to harmonize these seemingly contradictory perspectives.
• While the KJV consistently uses terms like “old” and “ancient”, the challenge lies in fitting these concepts into a young Earth timeline3.

Man, I love using this verse, which is plastered on my profile here.

Psalm 111:2 "Great are the works of the Lord, studied by all who delight in them." This verse expresses admiration for God's great creation and works. Scientists engage with these works through their research and discovery. Faith and science complement each other, as both can acknowledge God's presence and power in the natural world. Scientific inquiry can be driven by a belief in a deeper meaning to the universe and a recognition of God's involvement. The verse affirms that studying God's works deepens our appreciation for and connection to the LORD.

 

[Diamond7]

I will not use man's interpretation of science in order to interpret the Bible if a human's interpretation of science contradicts easy to understand passages of the Bible.

There are no contradictions. While the Bible doesn’t specifically outline the scientific method, it doesn’t conflict with it either.

 

[Vambram]

There are no contradictions. While the Bible doesn’t specifically outline the scientific method, it doesn’t conflict with it either.

I know that you believe otherwise. However, the Bible doesn't teach that the earth is millions of years old.

 

[Diamond7]

The verse affirms that studying God's works deepens our appreciation

Yes, exactly. The theory of evolution does more do deepen my appreciation of God. Even though I could just as easy fight against it. That does not bring honor and glory to God. Even atheists are amazed at the wonder of creation. For good reason because art and science are processed by the same part of the brain. Because the universe is exact and precise we can appreciate the beauty of that. The only argument is over just how exact and precise all of God's creation is. Just how balanced are His scales of Justice? Just how true are the natural laws of the universe. How much can we depend on Physics and all of the natural laws? Even though Einstein's theory of gravity is more precise. Newton's law still does what we need it to do. We just can not do as much as we can do with Einstein's understanding of the natural laws of gravity.

 

[AlexB23]

Yes, exactly. The theory of evolution does more do deepen my appreciation of God. Even though I could just as easy fight against it. That does not bring honor and glory to God. Even atheists are amazed at the wonder of creation. For good reason because art and science are processed by the same part of the brain. Because the universe is exact and precise we can appreciate the beauty of that. The only argument is over just how exact and precise all of God's creation is. Just how balanced are His scales of Justice? Just how true are the natural laws of the universe. How much can we depend on Physics and all of the natural laws? Even though Einstein's theory of gravity is more precise. Newton's law still does what we need it to do. We just can not do as much as we can do with Einstein's understanding of the natural laws of gravity.

Agreed. Creation and fine-tuning by God.

 

[Diamond7]

I know that you believe otherwise. However, the Bible doesn't teach that the earth is millions of years old.

Science says the earth is billions of years old and the Bible agrees with that. I started out YEC but I challenged to study the evidence and I went where the truth took me. Now I am amazed at the infinite amount of wisdom, understanding and knowledge packed into each and every word in chapter one of Genesis. Every book in the world would not be enough to explain the meaning of just one word in Genesis chapter one.

John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

 

[Diamond7]

Agreed. Creation and fine-tuning by God.

I love to balance river rocks because I can feel how balanced all of creation is.
Even though the point of contact can be tiny. All of creation is exact and precise because of gravity.
All of the solar system is perfectly balance and finely tuned.
Even a little tiny bit of difference and Earth would not sustain life as we know it.

Even more amazing is that everything in creation past and present is connected in real time.

Quantum Entanglement:

When two particles are entangled, their states become correlated, even when separated by vast distances.
A change in one particle instantly affects the other, regardless of the spatial separation.
That is why we can be anywhere in the Universe in an instant.
Even an instant is an eternity in comparison.

All of the universe began in a million, billion, trillionth of a second.
Everything was there in the beginning.

 

[AlexB23]

I love to balance river rocks because I can feel how balanced all of creation is.
Even though the point of contact can be tiny. All of creation is exact and precise because of gravity.
All of the solar system is perfectly balance and finely tuned.
Even a little tiny bit of difference and Earth would not sustain life as we know it.

Even more amazing is that everything in creation past and present is connected in real time.

Quantum Entanglement:

When two particles are entangled, their states become correlated, even when separated by vast distances.
A change in one particle instantly affects the other, regardless of the spatial separation.
That is why we can be anywhere in the Universe in an instant.
Even an instant is an eternity in comparison.

All of the universe began in a million, billion, trillionth of a second.
Everything was there in the beginning.

View attachment 346909

Yeah, I learned about quantum entanglement a while ago. Fascinating stuff. Also, cool rock art.

 

[Diamond7]

Yeah, I learned about quantum entanglement a while ago. Fascinating stuff. Also, cool rock art.

There is a lot of it. I have studied the physics of light for over 50 years.

 

[AlexB23]

There is a lot of it. I have studied the physics of light for over 50 years.
View attachment 346912

Nice, so you studied optics?

 

[Diamond7]

Nice, so you studied optics?

I began with a study of lighting in theater. I worked as a electrician for the Ballet company for three years. We filter light which is totally different from reflecting light. Then I went into photography where you photograph the light that bounces off of an object as compared with the light that is absorbed. I think about the precious gems in the river of life that are translucent. They are filled with light. I want to try to get a tiny taste of that here. I am on a limited budget so I cannot afford the precious gemstones that will be abundant there. So I do what I can. We are taught when you control the light you control peoples reality.

I see Taylor Swift just made a billion dollars off of her last tour. I could have been a part of something like that. But I decided to live a more quiet and peaceful life. But I did enjoy the excitement for a while.

 

[Vambram]

Science says the earth is billions of years old and the Bible agrees with that. I started out YEC but I challenged to study the evidence and I went where the truth took me. Now I am amazed at the infinite amount of wisdom, understanding and knowledge packed into each and every word in chapter one of Genesis. Every book in the world would not be enough to explain the meaning of just one word in Genesis chapter one.

John 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

I very, very, very firmly believe that you are misinterpreting John 21:25 out of context. Also, there is far more scriptural support for YEC than there is for OEC in my opinion.

 

[AlexB23]

I began with a study of lighting in theater. I worked as a electrician for the Ballet company for three years. We filter light which is totally different from reflecting light. Then I went into photography where you photograph the light that bounces off of an object as compared with the light that is absorbed. I think about the precious gems in the river of life that are translucent. They are filled with light. I want to try to get a tiny taste of that here. I am on a limited budget so I cannot afford the precious gemstones that will be abundant there. So I do what I can. We are taught when you control the light you control peoples reality.

I see Taylor Swift just made a billion dollars off of her last tour. I could have been a part of something like that. But I decided to live a more quiet and peaceful life. But I did enjoy the excitement for a while.

Theater lighting sounds interesting. Nowadays people use LED lighting. I do not like pop stars, nor do I care for them.

 

[Diamond7]

Theater lighting sounds interesting.

It cost a lot to rent the theater. So we have to go in, set up, work the performance and then tear down and get out as quick as we can. That is ok when you are young but as you get older you just want to work a normal 8 to 5 job.

 

[AlexB23]

It cost a lot to rent the theater. So we have to go in, set up, work the performance and then tear down and get out as quick as we can. That is ok when you are young but as you get older you just want to work a normal 8 to 5 job.

Agreed. Renting theaters sound expensive. Yeah, a normal 9-5 job makes better sense for a lot of folks.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

6,000 to 10,000 years is ancient and extremely old.

I will not use man's interpretation of science in order to interpret the Bible if a human's interpretation of science contradicts easy to understand passages of the Bible.

Daniel 12:4​

4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”

It is written that knowledge will increase and that is precisely what has happened exponentially after Jesus Christ of Nazareth ascended. It is astounding the amount of knowledge released by our Father in such a short amount of time. But why? Was He hiding the truth? Or did He wait until the mystery was revealed? Why has He released all this science to us ? Who He is , is unchanged but the world has changed. Maybe that is the reason. He never changes no matter what earthly knowledge He reveals to us. Think about it. Let us not despise His knowledge. It is a gift.
Be blessed.

 

[Vambram]

​

​

Daniel 12:4​

4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”

It is written that knowledge will increase and that is precisely what has happened exponentially after Jesus Christ of Nazareth ascended. It is astounding the amount of knowledge released by our Father in such a short amount of time. But why? Was He hiding the truth? Or did He wait until the mystery was revealed? Why has He released all this science to us ? Who He is , is unchanged but the world has changed. Maybe that is the reason. He never changes no matter what earthly knowledge He reveals to us. Think about it. Let us not despise His knowledge. It is a gift.
Be blessed.

The context of that passage of Scripture is prophecy, not scientific knowledge in general.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The context of that passage of Scripture is prophecy, not scientific knowledge in general.

Yes. It was prophesied that knowledge would increase.