"fearfully and 'wonderfully' made"?

[Jamdoc]

I think the person who's son you are referring to is me.

Yes, though my son's developmental issue is because of epilepsy; the seizures have left him with autistic like communication challenges. Yeah, and in some ways, I'm sure my son does feel like he was "born in the wrong universe" too.

You said in the post above that you like to hear testimonies. Well, I got one posted on Fan Fiction that I'll leave you a link to. It might help you..... not feel like you're so alone in this world.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8506219/1/Welcome-Home-My-Mini-AutoBiography

Ah, yeah, right, you did mention epilepsy I just forgot it, sorry.
Epilepsy is another condition that Pentecostals and charismatics treat as demonic possession

Sometimes the church can be incredibly hurtful of people taking aims at things that are totally out of their control. It's like Jobs "friends" and the disciples when Jesus healed the blind man assuming the blind man somehow deserved it because of sin.

there are other hurtful things the church can say to a person like me as well, with the idea of not liking singing, like if you don't feel like you'd be at home in heaven, and don't feel at home on this Earth, their "reassurance" is that you can feel at home in hell where you belong and deserve to be.
Oh we're saved by grace, none of us deserve to be in heaven, but the way they can say it and make you feel like you're going to a place you don't belong brings about the thought "will I ever be somewhere that feels like 'home'? will I ever be happy?"

which just reinforces my belief in my lack of value, "it's not about you it's about God", and so I have to view me, what I thought humans were a social animal, instead being a eusocial animal, like an ant or a wasp, all expendable workers living for the queen, in our case, King.

I read the bible, and can see that many of those pastors seem to be way off, but then my own low self esteem gets in the way "maybe I misinterpret what I read and they're right, I'm wrong, after all they're John Piper who writes books and has a million subscribers, I'm a nobody they exhibit joy in God, I don't, so I must be wrong"

Like I think the most toxic thing that I believe, is that my own life is so unenjoyable, that I am not thankful for it. So even the idea that yes, Jesus took the punishment for my sins, if heaven and the New Earth are as someone like John Piper says, then I have no real thanks to give, only the question of why was I born in the first place, there'd have been no sins to die for or forgive, if I'd never existed. Life itself becomes a thing of resentment instead of gratitude, and that fuels bitterness.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Ah, yeah, right, you did mention epilepsy I just forgot it, sorry.
Epilepsy is another condition that Pentecostals and charismatics treat as demonic possession

Sometimes the church can be incredibly hurtful of people taking aims at things that are totally out of their control. It's like Jobs "friends" and the disciples when Jesus healed the blind man assuming the blind man somehow deserved it because of sin.

there are other hurtful things the church can say to a person like me as well, with the idea of not liking singing, like if you don't feel like you'd be at home in heaven, and don't feel at home on this Earth, their "reassurance" is that you can feel at home in hell where you belong and deserve to be.
Oh we're saved by grace, none of us deserve to be in heaven, but the way they can say it and make you feel like you're going to a place you don't belong brings about the thought "will I ever be somewhere that feels like 'home'? will I ever be happy?"

which just reinforces my belief in my lack of value, "it's not about you it's about God", and so I have to view me, what I thought humans were a social animal, instead being a eusocial animal, like an ant or a wasp, all expendable workers living for the queen, in our case, King.

I read the bible, and can see that many of those pastors seem to be way off, but then my own low self esteem gets in the way "maybe I misinterpret what I read and they're right, I'm wrong, after all they're John Piper who writes books and has a million subscribers, I'm a nobody they exhibit joy in God, I don't, so I must be wrong"

Like I think the most toxic thing that I believe, is that my own life is so unenjoyable, that I am not thankful for it. So even the idea that yes, Jesus took the punishment for my sins, if heaven and the New Earth are as someone like John Piper says, then I have no real thanks to give, only the question of why was I born in the first place, there'd have been no sins to die for or forgive, if I'd never existed. Life itself becomes a thing of resentment instead of gratitude, and that fuels bitterness.

Well, you were born and you are here. You can't go back and undo that.

I've been suicidal. Recovering from that is no cake walk either!

One thing I realized years ago; was that it did me no good to be angry at God because I knew He was the only one who could help me.

But since you said you like testimonies; If you want to read mine; the link is below.

I can promise you that I've been through many trials and tribulations too and my life has been anything but easy.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8506219/1/Welcome-Home-My-Mini-AutoBiography

 

[AbbaLove]

We are "fearfully" made in that GOD gives us the freedom of "choices". It's not easy to understand the Wisdom of
an all powerful GOD allowing fallen man to have a freewill in deciding what he/she thinks is the proper "choice(s)".

Jesus makes it clear in the parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:29–37) who is the good neighbor. The Good Samaritan never complained (as far as we know) about the religious Jews, but rather went about with his "choices".

It seems evident from your posts that you know the difference between what's right and wrong (e.g. Proverbs 3:5-6).True Christianity is not a denomination (e.g. John Piper) or even a religion ... rather a relationship of Love with Father and His Son (Adonai) and the presence of the "Comforter".

 

[BeyondET]

Well it's more than one. MS is one of two degenerative autoimmune diseases I have, the other is psoriatic arthritis, so.. you know ugly skin, and deformed joints that are fusing and growing bone spurs.
then, while I don't like to mention it, because some Pentecostals and charismatics literally think it's demonic possession, I'm on the autism spectrum. Someone else mentioned a son with a developmental disorder, which okay maybe they understand then how someone can feel like they were just born into the wrong universe and don't fit in or belong and just can't communicate or relate to other people effectively. I'm not so severely affected that I can't function at all, but it's enough to estrange and ostracize myself from other people. Enough that I feel totally alone when I'm in a huge crowd, like I don't fit in that crowd, even one that tries to be welcoming like Church.

You not alone that's for sure, millions before millions after, even Paul who ask. So it doesn't appear to be the wrong universe. Keeping faith no doubt can be challenging but with that kind of endurance in which you have, you can change people's lives. The first will be last and the last will be first.

“Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.’ Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me” (2 Corinthians 12:8-9).

 

[Jamdoc]

2 Illustrations.. parables if you will.

A certain Lord holds a vast property, and a beautiful mansion. He has a multitude of servants, some within the household, and some without.
The servants in the household, must be presentable to those from without the kingdom, they are not beaten, they are clothed in fine uniforms, their labor is to educate the master's children, to care for the home, and clean it, and to prepare the Lord's food. These servants are given wives by the master and raise their family in relative comfort, eating from the Lord's own table, despite being owned property, these willingly have had their ear pierced against the doorpost to remain servants forever. The servants without are not to be seen by outsiders, they are clothed in rags, fed enough gruel just to keep them alive and working, they work the fields by hand, and are beaten with stripes over every mistake, and the only motivation they have is if they will one day stop being beaten by the Lord, these would attempt to escape, but know that they'll be caught and killed if they try.
Neither group of servants have ever seen their Lord face to face, but the promise is that all will, and that it will be a reward, a gift to them, not for their service but out of the Lord's own generosity. All will be allowed in the household, though only the first half have any idea what that will be like, all will eat from the Lord's table, though only half know what that will be like. Which half desires more to see their Lord in person, which half would consider it reward, and which half would be better at recruiting more laborers for the Lord's estate?

and

A man finds himself hanging off a precipice over a perilous chasm after a misguided step walking through a beautiful forest. They are at fault for taking the step that led to their danger of falling in the pit, but the pit was disguised as a good path until they fell through. They cannot pull themselves out of the pit, but by chance, a great Lord extends his hand and pulls the man out of the pit. After being pulled out, the Lord tells the man the forest is his, the man admires its beauty and is thankful to the Lord for such a beautiful place that he has and for saving him from the pit he stepped into, and avoids the pit from now on, and he follows the Lord of this wonderful place out of desire to see the Lord's home, surely such a Lord of such a beautiful place has an even more beautiful home.
Another man is walking in a desert through the sand, and steps into quicksand and is sinking in to his doom, he cannot get out, there is no branch or anything solid to grab ahold of, in desperation he reaches out and finds the hand of a great Lord pulling him out. The Lord explains that the desert is his, a desolation as far as the eye can see, with only the Lord's own figure breaking up the monotony. As the man walks he keeps falling into more quicksand, the Lord pulls him out, in time the man learns that the only way to not be in quicksand, is to follow the Lord through the desert, though the Lord's path is sometimes difficult, leaping over unseen quicksand patches here and there that the man falls short of clearing, and has to be pulled out again. The man can see no end to the desert, and the only thing he has is to follow the Lord who keeps pulling him out of danger, he is famished and parched, but the Lord has not given him anything but his hand to pull him out of danger. This man follows the Lord of this terrible place because he must, he has no alternatives, and just hopes the Lord is going somewhere better. Though it was his own missteps that put him in danger, the man wonders why he was ever in the desert in the first place and finds nothing beautiful about it, or its Lord, only that the Lord is the only one who knows the way out.
Which man's journey with the Lord is more desirable, and which man follows the Lord better and desires his company more?

 

[returntosender]

as a physically disabled person, an ugly, deformed physically disabled person at that, how can I see those words and believe them? I feel like I'm of such poor worksmanship that if I'm truly in the image of God, then it reflects badly on His abilities. Why would God create such an horrible image? I feel so badly made that I feel like I make Him look bad just by existing, much less my inability to do things that other people take for granted.

There's a point of humility where it just becomes self depreciation and feeling worthless.

You make me sad hearing how you feel about yourself;(. God sees your beauty!
I cringe when i read or hear that verse as it seems the uni's favorite self allegiance.

 

[Jamdoc]

You make me sad hearing how you feel about yourself;(. God sees your beauty!
I cringe when i read or hear that verse as it seems the uni's favorite self allegiance.

Well I don't see any male as beautiful. I find us all pretty crude and ugly in a way, just some more than others.
It doesn't help that Jesus is male in my inability to see Jesus Himself as "beautiful"
I can see Him as powerful, strong, and as a leader and ruler, but not as beautiful or see Him as a spouse the way the bible describes it, without feeling totally emasculated.

 

[returntosender]

Well I don't see any male as beautiful. I find us all pretty crude and ugly in a way, just some more than others.
It doesn't help that Jesus is male in my inability to see Jesus Himself as "beautiful"
I can see Him as powerful, strong, and as a leader and ruler, but not as beautiful or see Him as a spouse the way the bible describes it, without feeling totally emasculated.

I wish you could see both and all as beautiful because it encompasses the whole person. It's seeing beyond.

 

[Jamdoc]

I wish you could see both and all as beautiful because it encompasses the whole person. It's seeing beyond.

it's just an unappealing, kinda ugly form, I can appreciate masculinity as strength and power, but not as beauty.

 

[AbbaLove]

it's just an unappealing, kinda ugly form, I can appreciate masculinity as strength and power, but not as beauty.

Maybe takeup photography as a creative discipline capturing the beauty of God's creative nature ...

10 Bible Verses that Will Make You Appreciate God’s Creation More

Take a moment to appreciate the beauty of God’s creation! Here are 10 Bible verses to help you embrace and celebrate the world we live in.

www.cbnasia.org

My summer hobby is monitoring my Bluebird Trail of a dozen nest boxes using my adult electric Liberty Trike

 

[Jamdoc]

Maybe takeup photography as a creative discipline capturing the beauty of God's creative nature ...

10 Bible Verses that Will Make You Appreciate God’s Creation More

Take a moment to appreciate the beauty of God’s creation! Here are 10 Bible verses to help you embrace and celebrate the world we live in.

www.cbnasia.org

My summer hobby is monitoring my Bluebird Trail of a dozen nest boxes using my adult electric Liberty Trike

View attachment 346877

I can appreciate power and glory and creativity.. I still wouldn't look at a male face or body and think "beautiful"
they might make beautiful things, they might have a commanding and awe inspiring presence.. but I wouldn't think the physical form is "beautiful"

 

[AbbaLove]

I can appreciate power and glory and creativity.. I still wouldn't look at a male face or body and think "beautiful"
they might make beautiful things, they might have a commanding and awe inspiring presence.. but I wouldn't think the physical form is "beautiful"

Nature photography of God's creation is what that link was about. Do something that get's your mind in more of a positive mindset. ... 10 Bible Verses that Will Make You Appreciate God’s Creation More ... 10 Bible Verses that Will Make You Appreciate God’s Creation More

 

[AbbaLove]

I found Jesus when I was 12, but then got angry at the whole thing because it just turned into religion which I hate, and THEN I experimented with drugs. What kind of testimony is that? get saved out of .. being a child, and then backslide so bad that I tried to be Atheist because I was mad at God and then get chastised so badly it disabled me and come back out of not being able to deny the truth anymore because I see His hand working in my life.....

"fearly made" ... God created man (for better or worse) with the ability to choose either right or wrong. Sometimes I get upset with God, but realize it's my own fault for choosing the wrong way more than a few times even though i knew better. Should i get mad at God because He "fearly made" me and i decided to choose my way instead of following Him (Proverbs 3:5-6).
For all Job had to endure (that he possibly didn't deserve) there's no indication that he ever got angry/mad at God or thought of becoming an atheist.

tried to be an atheist but I still found myself talking to God in spite of it all, it was embarrassing. It's prodigal son acted out in real life rather than a parable

It seems like being a prodigal son in one way or another is a stage many men go through ... with no easy fix due in part to our own pride ... until we surrender all. Even so did the prodigal son "live happily ever after"?. Just be thankful you had enuf sense (with God's help) *not to become an atheist.

When it comes right down to it you can find reason(s) to count your *blessings. God is more interested in our heart than our outward appearance, no matter how handsome (Saul vs David)
.

one of the things that I found helpful for medical conditions I have is... Cannabis. I can't testify to other people who might be having problems with drugs of abuse, while I use it as medicine because it calms inflammation and stops muscle spasms, other people use it to get high, I'm a horrible stumbling block to anyone in that situation.
In fact I mention that here and it's probably a stumbling block to someone or a reason for someone to doubt my beliefs, because they've been taught that that plant was created by Satan or something.

Former Governor, Jesse Ventura claims Cannabus was a life saver for him. He now favors Minnesota legalizing it for medical use. Also, it was wine not grape juice that was Jesus' first miracle ...

No longer drink only water, but take a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.
1 Timothy 5:23 ​

... FWIW i don't care for beer, but will have a glass of red wine during a special occasion.

as for what I'm watching and praying for? Jesus. because I know it's what this world needs, because this world is broken. I don't even expect to be happy in the next world and I still want it to happen anyway, because it's what's right and what will make everyone else happy. Even if I'm not among them in that. Even if I'm left alien in it. Even if John Piper is right and we are just singing and praising and I dislike that activity a lot.
at least it was what everyone else would be happy doing.

Those that have had a near death experience tell of the LOVE in Heaven and don't want to go back to earth. That was the case with Johnny Cash ... True Christianity is not a religion ... rather a friendship with Christ Jesus.

 

[Jamdoc]

"fearly made" ... God created man (for better or worse) with the ability to choose either right or wrong. Sometimes I get upset with God, but realize it's my own fault for choosing the wrong way more than a few times even though i knew better. Should i get mad at God because He "fearly made" me and i decided to choose my way instead of following Him (Proverbs 3:5-6).
For all Job had to endure (that he possibly didn't deserve) there's no indication that he ever got angry/mad at God or thought of becoming an atheist.

It seems like being a prodigal son in one way or another is a stage many men go through ... with no easy fix due in part to our own pride ... until we surrender all. Even so did the prodigal son "live happily ever after"?. Just be thankful you had enuf sense (with God's help) *not to become an atheist.

When it comes right down to it you can find reason(s) to count your *blessings. God is more interested in our heart than our outward appearance, no matter how handsome (Saul vs David)

Yeah but other people are interested in outward appearance, combined with a general lack of charisma it makes me a poor evangelist, basically pointless to have even been made. Other people can do better than me so what was the point of me?

.

Former Governor, Jesse Ventura claims Cannabus was a life saver for him. He now favors Minnesota legalizing it for medical use. Also, it was wine not grape juice that was Jesus' first miracle ...

No longer drink only water, but take a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.​

1 Timothy 5:23 ​

... FWIW i don't care for beer, but will have a glass of red wine during a special occasion.

I used to like beer but it's bad for my condition so.. I can't drink it. Admittedly I do have a bit of fondness for spiced rum in coke. I don't even add enough to feel it and never more than 1, it's just for the flavor (only way coca cola tastes good to be honest)

Those that have had a near death experience tell of the LOVE in Heaven and don't want to go back to earth. That was the case with Johnny Cash ... True Christianity is not a religion ... rather a friendship with Christ Jesus.

I don't put stock in near death experiences.