Discussion of When Life Begins [Everybody welcome]

Willtor

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I respectfully disagree. Because we do not use the medical definiton of life, then, we default to the legal definition of life. The legal definition requires the child to take a breath independently of the mother in order to obtain its own rights. So, in the case of third trimester abortions, the baby is turned so that its legs are delivered first. This is done so that it cannot take a breath and the brain stem is then severed before it can be declared a legal life with rights.

You tell me...does manipulation of the natural birth not constitute murder in these cases? The baby is positioned so that it cannot take its first breath. It is essentially held in the birth canal and its legs held still by the Assisting Nurse so that the abortionist can by legal definition dispose of the non-life.

You tell me.

That same non-life, when in the first days of its conception, if its non-life is taken by someone other than the mother, is considered murder.

So, even the legal definition is manipulated so that socially approved murder can take place.

I told you I was passionate about this subject...

Lisa



Lisa

I'm not sure I'd move to the legal definition, either. After all, I suppose if we are going to move the discussion to abortion that is precisely the definition we should be trying to establish... not the one we use to tell us what to think. Again, neither definition really seems to serve a meaningful purpose in a broader discussion. They're both tuned to their respective focuses.

As to whether abortion constitutes murder, I've already posted what I think.
 
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Joykins

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If you're looking for a scriptural answer, you'll have to start out knowing the assumptions of the culture the scriptures were written for. Did they understand the difference between fertilization or implantation? Or did they believe in homunculi? That's a big difference...
 
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Joykins

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What does literally mean in this context? Do you think the scriptures were written in such a way that the people reading it at the time would not understand it properly but people 2000 years later would? Or that the meaning is changeable over time? For example, would the Holy Spirit lead modern people to interpret things in a new way that seem different from earlier people?
 
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BelindaP

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No. I mean that there are often layers of interpretation. An example would be the Messianic prophecies. I'm sure that the Jews of Jesus' day didn't see Jonah as being a prophecy of Jesus' death and resurrection. And yet it is described as such in the epistles.

Well, I guess that goes with your second option.

It's not that the scripture is changeable as much as revelation through the Holy Spirit continues to this day.
 
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DailyBlessings

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For me, the whole universe is alive, and has been since God created it. Babies are alive, yes, and so are embryos. So are ova and sperm, and the proteins they are made from, and the animals and veggies that mum and Dad ate while they were growing up. We live in a world filled with beautiful, beautiful life, and I'd rather not devalue the life of any living thing.
 
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Izdaari Eristikon

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I don't know when life begins, and I'm not sure that's even the right question to ask. When a clump of cells begins doesn't engage me very much. I'm more concerned about when a human being begins. But I'm not sure that question is even answerable.
 
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Joykins

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No. I mean that there are often layers of interpretation. An example would be the Messianic prophecies. I'm sure that the Jews of Jesus' day didn't see Jonah as being a prophecy of Jesus' death and resurrection. And yet it is described as such in the epistles.

I would call that a metaphor rather than a prophecy.

Well, I guess that goes with your second option.

It's not that the scripture is changeable as much as revelation through the Holy Spirit continues to this day.

I believe revelation through the Holy Spirit continues today, also. But I also believe it's possible to go to far in interpreting passages without taking context (literary and historical) into account. Perhaps that's what makes me moderate ^_^
 
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RedTulipMom

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Belenda, I missed you, it is nice to hear from you and Freitag agian.
Interesting topic, I am a Catholic and the Church teaches that life begins at conception, now the Church is not authoritative on science and this is kind of a scientific question, but even if life did not start at conception I think we should act like it does for two reasons
1. better to err on the side of caution when human life is at stake
2 even if life does not start till a little after conception, the embryo would turn into a "live person" under normal situations
i totally agree with ya!
 
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RedTulipMom

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i guess in my opinion..does it really matter if it begins at conception or implantation? they both are before ya even know your pregnant anyway! BTW..is there a 3rd or 4th choice for when life begins? (sorry havent read the whole thread yet)
 
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RedTulipMom

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I don't know when life begins, and I'm not sure that's even the right question to ask. When a clump of cells begins doesn't engage me very much. I'm more concerned about when a human being begins. But I'm not sure that question is even answerable.
its NOT answerable...hence why there is always so much debate about it!

therefore..id rather err on the side that promotes life regardless..
 
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Joykins

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i guess in my opinion..does it really matter if it begins at conception or implantation? they both are before ya even know your pregnant anyway! BTW..is there a 3rd or 4th choice for when life begins? (sorry havent read the whole thread yet)

For moral reasons, if someone believes an individual life begins at fertilization and not implantation, they might not want to use some kinds of birth control that work by inhibiting implantation.

Obviously it's a fine point and relies on information not available to the authors of the Bible.
 
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