Did Yahshua Rise on the 7th Day Shabbat...

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Sorry but this method of counting is not what we see in the Word of God dear brother...the first time we see a counting of days and nights is with the Flood of Noah. We are told it rained for 40 Days & 40 Nights, if what you say is true then why would God make an otherwise pointless distinction between how many days and nights passed? We know our God YHWH nor His Son, our Lord and Savior Yeshua, bother to waste anytime with superflous word, but instead are very exact with their choice of words.

This distinction between the day and the night are emphasized twice in the creation week on the 1st Day and the 4th Day; this is done again in the story of Noah; and three separate times by Moses who fasted at least three times for 40 Days and 40 Nights; and then the last two times we read of this clear distinction are found in the story of Jonah and the Gospels. It is clear then from the Scriptures that the ancient Hebrews did not include the entire nigth with their inclusive method of counting as God instructed Moses to distinguish between the day and night, nor are we to mix them together.

It actually is...inclusive counting/reckoning is very biblical. There are many examples. Read Esther...Esther asked the Jews of Shushan to fast, and by implication, to pray, for her before she went in to the king unbidden, and then she approached the king “on the third day” (Esther 4:16; 5:1).

Obviously a period of “three days” ended on the third day, not after the completion of the three days, as we would reckon it. It is obvious from these texts that “in three days,” “after three days,” and even “three days and three nights” are all equivalent to “on the third day.” Matthew uses all three phrases for the same period. The interval from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning is three days, by inclusive reckoning. Since it is clear that this mode of counting was the common practice in Bible times, and widespread in many countries, it is useless to try to understand this period as three full 24-hour days, according to the modern Western habit of counting. To do so violates both historical usage and Biblical statement, and creates a difficulty that would not exist if the ordinary usage of common speech and of examples in the Bible be taken into account. This means that any part of a day was counted as a whole day. The Jewish Encyclopaedia states: “A short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though, of the first day only a few minutes after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day.” R. Eliazar ben Azariah said, "A day and a night make an onah: and a part of an onah is as the whole". And a little after, R. Ismael computed "a part of the onah for the whole.” Thus, then, three days and three nights, according to this Jewish method of reckoning, included any part of the first day; the whole of the following night; the next day and its night; and any part of the succeeding or third day.

 

[Humble Penny]

It actually is...inclusive counting/reckoning is very biblical. There are many examples. Read Esther...Esther asked the Jews of Shushan to fast, and by implication, to pray, for her before she went in to the king unbidden, and then she approached the king “on the third day” (Esther 4:16; 5:1).

Obviously a period of “three days” ended on the third day, not after the completion of the three days, as we would reckon it. It is obvious from these texts that “in three days,” “after three days,” and even “three days and three nights” are all equivalent to “on the third day.” Matthew uses all three phrases for the same period. The interval from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning is three days, by inclusive reckoning. Since it is clear that this mode of counting was the common practice in Bible times, and widespread in many countries, it is useless to try to understand this period as three full 24-hour days, according to the modern Western habit of counting. To do so violates both historical usage and Biblical statement, and creates a difficulty that would not exist if the ordinary usage of common speech and of examples in the Bible be taken into account. This means that any part of a day was counted as a whole day. The Jewish Encyclopaedia states: “A short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though, of the first day only a few minutes after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day.” R. Eliazar ben Azariah said, "A day and a night make an onah: and a part of an onah is as the whole". And a little after, R. Ismael computed "a part of the onah for the whole.” Thus, then, three days and three nights, according to this Jewish method of reckoning, included any part of the first day; the whole of the following night; the next day and its night; and any part of the succeeding or third day.

No, no, no brother not so quick now...I never disagreed with inclusive counting being used in the Bible. I only made the point that the ancient Israelites didn't include the night in their count of 1 Day.

 

[HARK!]

Jesus said that He would spend “three days and three nights” in the heart of the earth; yet, He was buried late Friday and rose Sunday morning, which isn’t three full days and nights; that is, a complete 72- hour cycle.

Obviously, then, the phrase “three days and three nights” doesn’t automatically mean exactly 72 hours. Instead, it’s simply an idiomatic expression meaning just three days, such as (in this case) Friday, Sabbath, and Sunday (see Luke 23:46–24:3, 13, 21). It doesn’t have to mean a complete 24-hour Friday, a complete 24-hour Sabbath, and a complete 24-hour Sunday.

In other places, Jesus said that “in three days” He would raise His body temple (John 2:19-21) or that He would be “raised again the third day” (Matthew 16:21). These references mean the same thing as the “three days and three nights”; that is, Jesus would be crucified and raised from the dead over a three-day period, even if only one of those days, the Sabbath, encompassed a complete 24-hour day. He was crucified late Friday, spent Sabbath in the tomb, and rose Sunday
View attachment 311265

Yahshua doesn't mention hours; but he does mention days; and he mentions nights. He could have said 3 days like Jonah; but he didn't. He could have said 3 nights like Jonah; but he didn't. He said 3+3. In addition to being capable of performing simple addition, I'm sure that he knew how to count.

BTW, I don't know where you got that chart; but Monday morning is neither a Sabbath, nor the first day of the week.

 

[HARK!]

Thanks for the invite.

Thank you for joining us Torah Keeper,

Welcome!

I read the rest of your post; but I didn't properly process it.

I'm busy, busy, busy; but I'll take some time this evening to look it over carefully.

 

[HARK!]

Go do some research on Jewish inclusive reckoning .... and then there is sense made about the matter. Inclusive reckoning is not a 24-hour period.

This is a study thread. "Go read a book" is not a valuable contribution to this discussion. Do you have any credible verifiable information to present on this subject? Your "say so" doesn't cut it.

I don't want this to turn into some bickering match. That is why I posted this thread in this dedicated forum.

Let the evidence reveal the truth.

Shalom

 

[eleos1954]

Yahshua doesn't mention hours; but he does mention days; and he mentions nights. He could have said 3 days like Jonah; but he didn't. He could have said 3 nights like Jonah; but he didn't. He said 3+3. In addition to being capable of performing simple addition, I'm sure that he knew how to count.

BTW, I don't know where you got that chart; but Monday morning is neither a Sabbath, nor the first day of the week.

huh?

The table indicates that Jesus died on Good Friday; that was day one. In total, day one includes the day and the previous night, even though Jesus died in the day. So, although only part of Friday was left, that was the first day and night to be counted. Saturday was day two. Jesus rose in the morning of the Sunday. That was day three. Thus, by Jewish counting, we have three days and nights, yet Jesus rose on the third day.

 

[eleos1954]

This is a study thread. "Go read a book" is not a valuable contribution to this discussion. Do you have any credible verifiable information to present on this subject? Your "say so" doesn't cut it.

I don't want this to turn into some bickering match. That is why I posted this thread in this dedicated forum.

Let the evidence reveal the truth.

Shalom

Thank you for your demeaning comments ... may the Lord forgive you.

I will relent from this "exclusive group"

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yahshua doesn't mention hours; but he does mention days; and he mentions nights. He could have said 3 days like Jonah; but he didn't. He could have said 3 nights like Jonah; but he didn't. He said 3+3. In addition to being capable of performing simple addition, I'm sure that he knew how to count.

He ALSO said "on the 3rd day" and "in 3 days"...He used it as an example they would understand...it was an idiom. I mean does the earth have a an actual heart? All knew what He meant...BUT, He did not tell them the end game...

 

[Filippus]

Did Yahshua Rise on the 7th Day Shabbat...

...or could it have been another day of rest?

(CLV) Mk 16:9
Now, rising in the morning in the first (πρωτη) sabbath (σαββατου), He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

Shalom Hark! Thank you for the invite.
How do you manage your quick links in the different forums. At the moment I am getting lost between all the feeds. Needs some help

For me Matt28:1 is one of the more unclear verses.

However I am of the opinion that Matt 12:40 is the key.

99% of scripture talks about 3 days between the crucifixion and resurrection strongly suggesting a Friday.
Now if Matt 12:40 is the definition, it changes everything and become hard to support a Rise on the 7th Day Sabbath.

Also looking at the four Gospels the first day resurrection before sunrise, Sunday morning, is best presented by Joh20:1 and resolves Matt12:40.

Moving the crucifixion to a Thursday further harmonizes the 3 days and 3 nights specified.

Shalom

 

[Humble Penny]

Hey guys...you know how Yeshua died on the 17th Day of the 1st Month for Passover? What day does Jubilees tell us Adam and Eve were cursed in the garden of Eden?

"And after the completion of the seven years, which he had completed there, 7 years exactly, and in the 2nd month, on the 17th day (of the month), the serpent came and approached the woman, and the serpent said to the woman, "Hath God commanded you, saying, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"
Jubilees 3:17

What day did the Flood of Noah occur?

"In the 600th year of Noah’s life, in the 2nd month, on the 17th day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened."
Genesis 7:11 NASB1995

Why is the 17th Day of the 2nd Month of Abib significant since Passover is on the 14th Day of the 1st Month of Abib? What does Moses tell us about it?

"Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘If any one of you or of your generations becomes unclean because of a dead person, or is on a distant journey, he may, however, observe the Passover to the Lord. In the 2nd month on the 14th day at twilight, they shall observe it; they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. They shall leave none of it until morning, nor break a bone of it; according to all the statute of the Passover they shall observe it. But the man who is clean and is not on a journey, and yet neglects to observe the Passover, that person shall then be cut off from his people, for he did not present the offering of the Lord at its appointed time. That man will bear his sin. If an alien sojourns among you and observes the Passover to the Lord, according to the statute of the Passover and according to its ordinance, so he shall do; you shall have one statute, both for the alien and for the native of the land.’ ”
Numbers 9:9‭-‬14 NASB1995

So Adam and Eve were cursed and suffered spiritual death on a year of release. And we know from Moses that at the end of every 7 Years all debts are to be forgiven by creditors and, all slaves are to be released by their masters. We also know that the Israeliotes were freed on Passover and the angel of death passed over them becuase of the blood of the lamb; in the days of Noah the angel of death is represented by the Flood waters and Noah and his family, and the animals represent the Hebrews and the gentiles who were: and Moses left Egypt with the children of Israel and a mixed multitude:

Christ died 5,500 Years at the close of the 110th Jubilee and redeemed the world on a Passover through His Blood! And it is through His Blood that the Angel of Death passes over us! And not only this pur Messiah died on a Year of Release and paid our huge debt of sin!

How amazing is that?! It is undeniable that Christ died and was buried on the 3rd Day/Tuesday and rose from the dead after 3 Days and 3 Nights on the 6th Day/Friday showing His power over sin and death.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Moving the crucifixion to a Thursday further harmonizes the 3 days and 3 nights specified.

Agreed!

How amazing is that?! It is undeniable that Christ died and was buried on the 3rd Day/Tuesday

Lol. I will deny it was a Tuesday.

 

[Filippus]

We have been through this. He also said on the 3rd day. Friday...1...Sabbath...2...Sunday 3. very simple. it was an idiom...3 days and 3 nights...besides that, the eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus said it was that day the 3rd day since the events ocurred. Don't invite me to your threads if you are going to be rude...

Have you considered why the pilgrims returned to Emmaus, was it because the feast was over, after the 21st or did they not stay the week of the unleavened bread, being the 16th?

 

[Humble Penny]

Agreed!



Lol. I will deny it was a Tuesday.

Lol all good

 

[Torah Keeper]

Have you considered why the pilgrims returned to Emmaus, was it because the feast was over, after the 21st or did they not stay the week of the unleavened bread, being the 16th?

Well I think that Sunday walk was on the 17th. So they were going home and would return for the 21st. Jerusalem was probably an uncomfortable place to be after the Messiah was just crucified.

 

[HARK!]

Thank you for your demeaning comments ... may the Lord forgive you.

I will relent from this "exclusive group"

Hi Eleos,

We got off to a bad start.

You came to this study like a bull in a china shop with "go do some research." That wasn't helpful. I would welcome your participation; but I would ask that you would contribute to this study by posting your research.

This thread was created as a result of a thread in another forum, where some of the invited members were participating. They were bringing forth valuable information; but it was buried in bickering. As stated in Post #4, the intent of this thread is to be more of a meeting of the minds, in order to bring our areas of study together for discussion rather than debate. Debate proves little more that who is better at debating. It doesn't prove who is correct. I probably should have made all of this more clear in Post #1; but it didn't occur to me at the time. I had mentioned that I was going to start this thread, in the other thread; so that we could all go someplace more quiet.

Again I would welcome any research that you could contribute to this discussion.

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

Many Fathers were at Nicea and they all agreed regarding it...go read about it! Unanimously, the bishops gathered at the Council decided to keep the feast on a Sunday. They wanted to retain the symbolism of the Resurrection falling on the day which is both the first day of the week and the eighth day.

I agree with you we cant ignore the historical evidence. They defined it on Sunday.

Easter is defined to fall on the first Sunday after the Full Moon that falls on or after the equinox or March 21. If the Full Moon is on a Sunday, Easter is celebrated on the following Sunday.

This means, we are looking for the first full moon on or after March 21, the NEXT Sunday is Easter.

Now understanding that the 15th of the first month, the 1st day of Passover week, is always the full moon when using the Lunar calendar.

 

[HARK!]

Shalom Hark! Thank you for the invite.

Hi Filippus,

Welcome to the discussion; and welcome to CF!

I'm so glad that you showed up here. You've made some very thought provoking posts.

I believe that I can learn much from you.

How do you manage your quick links in the different forums. At the moment I am getting lost between all the feeds. Needs some help

I'm not sure what you mean by quick links. Do you mean just posting regular old links?

I'll send you a PM and we can talk about it there.

I'm really bust right now; and I just popped in. I'll finish reading your post later on this evening; and catch up on this thread.

Again, thank you for joining us, and again welcome.

 

[Humble Penny]

Well I think that Sunday walk was on the 17th. So they were going home and would return for the 21st. Jerusalem was probably an uncomfortable place to be after the Messiah was just crucified.

I don't know if you read my reply on post #38, but I did give an impartial view to all four burial doctrines and aligned them all against Scripture. Why all three meet the 3 Days & 3 Nights as I showed in the aforementioned post: only a Tuesday burial and Friday resurection make sense and align with all other significant dates and prophecy in Scripture.

I am willing to hear otherwise if you can show me where I may have overlooked some points I didn't take into account.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Humble Penny, Firstfruits is always on a Sunday. Since Yeshua is the firstfruits of the dead, and the fulfillment of the resurrection, it would make perfect sense for Him to rise on Firstfruits.

If Firstfruits was on another day of the week, it would mess up the omer count for Pentecost. You wouldn't get 50 days on the day after the 7th Sabbath. You'd get 45 or 47 or whatever days. It's the same problem with the lunar sabbath theory. It seems ok until the omer count and then it derails off a cliff and there is no saving it. This is why lunar sabbath keepers do not keep Pentecost (at least the one guy I know).

I know you are into this 364 day solar-only calendar, but it totally ignores the moon. According to Genesis 1, the moon was made for Moedim (Holy Days). Don't ignore it.

If you keep the Moedim on proper days, Trumpets is a new moon, Matsa is a full moon, and Tabernacles is a full moon. It all lines up perfectly. These Feasts aligning with moon phases is a check to make sure they are kept at the proper time. The moon is a timepiece. It is nonsensical to divide a solar year into 12 months (moons) and say these months (moons) are not based on the very moon for which they are named.

 

[Humble Penny]

Humble Penny, Firstfruits is always on a Sunday. Since Yeshua is the firstfruits of the dead, and the fulfillment of the resurrection, it would make perfect sense for Him to rise on Firstfruits.

If Firstfruits was on another day of the week, it would mess up the omer count for Pentecost. You wouldn't get 50 days on the day after the 7th Sabbath. You'd get 45 or 47 or whatever days. It's the same problem with the lunar sabbath theory. It seems ok until the omer count and then it derails off a cliff and there is no saving it. This is why lunar sabbath keepers do not keep Pentecost (at least the one guy I know).

I know you are into this 364 day solar-only calendar, but it totally ignores the moon. According to Genesis 1, the moon was made for Moedim (Holy Days). Don't ignore it.

If you keep the Moedim on proper days, Trumpets is a new moon, Matsa is a full moon, and Tabernacles is a full moon. It all lines up perfectly. These Feasts aligning with moon phases is a check to make sure they are kept at the proper time. The moon is a timepiece. It is nonsensical to divide a solar year into 12 months (moons) and say these months (moons) are not based on the very moon for which they are named.

Welll...Feast of First Fruits is on the 15th Day of the 3rd Month...so theres no way Yeshua could have fulfilled that during the Passion week. Also if you type in month into a search engine you will see that in all instances the Hebrew reads CHoDeSH; and, when you type in new moon you will also see that every time the Hebrew reads RoSH CHoDeSH or "new month" The actual Hebrew word for moon is YeReACH.

And Genesis 1:14-19 clearly indicates that the Sun is the Greater Light and rules the day while the Moon is the Lesser light and rules the night: so we know the day comes before the night because the Sun is greater than the Moon, this also means we have a biblical solar calendar. And Moses tells us that God made all the luminaries to be for signs, seasons [moedim], days, and years. The Sun simply leads the Moon and stars in these things which thy all keep time of together...just the Sun and stars keep the year accurately without losing days.

As for what day you begin counting the days leading up to First Fruits you cn only do so on the 26th Day of the 1st Month because Moses tells us specifically to begin our count on the morrow after the Sabbath and to end it on the morrow after the Sabbath:

Month 1
01 02 03 04 05 06 07
______[01]01 02 03 04
05 06 07 08 09 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 (Passover/1st Day)
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (7th/8th Day of Unleavened Bread)
26 27 28 29 30______ (Wave Sheaf Offering)

Month 2
01 02 03 04 05 06 07
_______________01 02
03 04 05 06 07 08 09
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30

Month 3
01 02 03 04 05 06 07
01 02 03 04 05 06 07
08 09 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 (Feast of Weeks)
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 [01]___________

As you can clearly see with the calendar layout it lines up perfectly with all of the feast days and Scripture without missing a beat.