Contempt For Ordinary Voters Undermines Opposition To Trump

[Bradskii]

You are ignoring the reality of what has actually happened in the big cities. You are the one who appears to be gleefully and willfully ignorant.

Again, I gave you figures for one of your largest cities, one where crime is meant to be rampant. And it shows it falling. You can't just make things up, ignore what you are being shown, parrot right wing opinion pieces with no evidence and still expect to be treated seriously.

 

[Vambram]

Again, I gave you figures for one of your largest cities, one where crime is meant to be rampant. And it shows it falling. You can't just make things up, ignore what you are being shown, parrot right wing opinion pieces with no evidence and still expect to be treated seriously.

I don't take those figures seriously when I have seen multiple businesses in the big cities closing down because of crime. I have seen this. It is not an opinion.

 

[comana]

Close. Instead of smaller and weaker, government performs better when it is smaller and more efficient and with much, much, much less corruption than what is in the Federal Government.

What prevents corruption in a small government?

 

[Vambram]

Here's what's happening with crime in Chicago in 2023

Robberies, car thefts, smash-and-grabs. CBS Chicago took a dive into all the reported crimes in the city to give a sense of what's going on in the city this year.

www.cbsnews.com

The crime statistics in Chicago 2023 - S.O.S. Blog

The latest crime statistics in Chicago point to an average of 3,926 crimes per every 100,000 people in 2022, mostly violent crimes. Let's read and know more.

sosprivatesecurity.com

 

[Vambram]

What prevents corruption in a small government?

Would you prefer, if you have to choose, massive corruption in a massive government; or smaller corruption in a smaller government?

 

[Vambram]

Charlotte shooting: 3 US Marshals Fugitive Task Force members killed, 5 other officers injured serving warrant

The Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department said three officers from a U.S. Marshals task force were killed and five officers were wounded in a shootout on Monday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[iluvatar5150]

You are ignoring the reality of what has actually happened in the big cities. You are the one who appears to be gleefully and willfully ignorant.

According to your profile, you live in a small town 90 minutes outside of St Louis.

You're not in a position to be telling anybody "what has actually happened in the big cities." You only know what your right-wing propagandists have told you.

Close. Instead of smaller and weaker, government performs better when it is smaller and more efficient and with much, much, much less corruption than what is in the Federal Government.

I've been hearing that dogma for 40 years, but what metrics do you have to support that claim? On what do you base that belief other than blind faith?

 

[Vambram]

You're not in a position to be telling anybody "what has actually happened in the big cities." You only know what your right-wing propagandists have told you.

I know what I see. The internet is awesome and there are more than a few sources that are not right wing at all which shows the amount of crime in the big cities. You are not in a position to tell what I know or do not know.

 

[Vambram]

I've been hearing that dogma for 40 years, but what metrics do you have to support that claim? On what do you base that belief other than blind faith?

I base my beliefs about government upon history, experience, and what is common sense to me.

 

[Bradskii]

I don't take those figures seriously when I have seen multiple businesses in the big cities closing down because of crime. I have seen this. It is not an opinion.

Well, OK. Deny the facts and go with personal incredulity, anecdotal evidence and an unwavering belief in opinions presented in biased reportage that offers no data and feeds you nothing except a confirmation of your own position. Any points you attempt to make or arguments that you submit will be judged on that basis.

In other words, your points and your arguments be completely discounted. They'll be deemed worthless.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I know what I see.

What you see? Or what is presented to you?

The internet is awesome and there are more than a few sources that are not right wing at all which shows the amount of crime in the big cities. You are not in a position to tell what I know or do not know.

If I can see you pushing a bunch of propaganda that doesn’t line up with data but does line up with the financial incentives of the propagandists, then I think I can discern pretty well what you do and don’t know.

I base my beliefs about government upon history, experience, and what is common sense to me.

What history? What experience?

 

[Bradskii]

Here's what's happening with crime in Chicago in 2023

Robberies, car thefts, smash-and-grabs. CBS Chicago took a dive into all the reported crimes in the city to give a sense of what's going on in the city this year.

www.cbsnews.com

The crime statistics in Chicago 2023 - S.O.S. Blog

The latest crime statistics in Chicago point to an average of 3,926 crimes per every 100,000 people in 2022, mostly violent crimes. Let's read and know more.

sosprivatesecurity.com

There's nothing in those reports that wasn't reflected in the figures you have already been given. And comparing just two years isn't a survey of trends. Not by any stretch. Fluctuations always occur. Otherwise 'Crime is on the increase' could refer to one month versus another. Trends are what are important.

 

[Vambram]

Well, OK. Deny the facts and go with personal incredulity, anecdotal evidence and an unwavering belief in opinions presented in biased reportage that offers no data and feeds you nothing except a confirmation of your own position. Any points you attempt to make or arguments that you submit will be judged on that basis.

In other words, your points and your arguments be completely discounted. They'll be deemed worthless.

And your points in this thread are deemed to be worthless as well. Perhaps you should tell the people in Chicago that your data is correct when Chicagoans are seeing a rising increase in crime.

 

[Vambram]

There's nothing in those reports that wasn't reflected in the figures you have already been given. And comparing just two years isn't a survey of trends. Not by any stretch. Fluctuations always occur. Otherwise 'Crime is on the increase' could refer to one month versus another. Trends are what are important.

I knew that you would attempt to spin the facts to support your point of view.

 

[Vambram]

What you see? Or what is presented to you?




If I can see you pushing a bunch of propaganda that doesn’t line up with data but does line up with the financial incentives of the propagandists, then I think I can discern pretty well what you do and don’t know.

What history? What experience?

You believe it is propaganda because it doesn't support what you think is correct.

 

[iluvatar5150]

You believe it is propaganda because it doesn't support what you think is correct.

Sure, but I try to base my perception of reality on actual data, as well as first hand accounts of people who actually live in those places but aren’t trying to feed me an agenda (like, say, all of my neighbors in this big city, or my relatives who live in other big cities).

 

[A2SG]

I don't take those figures seriously when I have seen multiple businesses in the big cities closing down because of crime. I have seen this. It is not an opinion.

How many businesses don't close down? You know, for comparison.

-- A2SG, "Man Doesn't Get Robbed" isn't exactly a headline, ya know.....

 

[A2SG]

I know what I see. The internet is awesome and there are more than a few sources that are not right wing at all which shows the amount of crime in the big cities. You are not in a position to tell what I know or do not know.

Just so you know....I live in a big city. Boston, specifically. (Well, now, just outside of it, but close enough for jazz. I still work in Boston.)

I've encountered crime directly myself exactly twice. Once, someone tried to mug me in a subway station...he didn't get my wallet. An old lady chased him away. (Seriously!) And the other time, my apartment was robbed while my roommate and I were at work. They never caught who did it, but someone who worked for the management company told me they were pretty sure they knew who did it, but they couldn't prove it.

That's it. The first event happened in the early 80s, the other later in that same decade. Since then, crime has not affected me directly at all.

So there you go. A report direct from the big city.

-- A2SG, add that to your overall view of crime in the big city....

 

[Pommer]

Would you prefer, if you have to choose, massive corruption in a massive government; or smaller corruption in a smaller government?

Is “the rate” of the corruption the same, though?

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

You believe it is propaganda because it doesn't support what you think is correct.

I live in Chicago. Travel through what is routinely considered the most dangerous neighborhood in Chicago daily. Crime is down. I don’t think that. I experience it by actually living in the place we are talking about.

You are being fed a pack of lies and you are regurgitating those lies here.