Churches Dying

Kokavkrystallos

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(Hopefully this is the right forum for this.)

Your Church is Going to Die

BY CLINT CLIFTON

People rarely consider how churches begin and almost never consider how they end. Churches, just like people, have lifecycles. They are born and they die. Where is your church in its lifecycle?
Have you ever considered how close your church is to death? In his book, “The Unstuck Church: Equipping Churches to Experience Sustained Health” Tony Morgan describes seven stages of a church’s life.

  1. Launch
  2. Momentum Growth
  3. Strategic Growth
  4. Sustained health
  5. Maintenance
  6. Preservation
  7. Life Support
Where is your church in this lifecycle?

People rarely consider how churches begin and almost never consider how they end. Churches, just like people, have lifecycles. They are born and they die. They close their doors, they sell their buildings, they liquidate their assets, and they stop gathering.

If you don’t believe me, get on a plane to Jerusalem and look for the church first pastored by James. Then skip over to Turkey and see if you can find the church at Antioch still meeting. Those churches are closed, disbanded and scattered. American churches are closing too, and not just one or two at a time – they are closing by the thousands. This Sunday morning when you go to church, about 135 fewer American churches will be gathering than gathered the same time last week. That’s 600 churches disbanding every month – and 7,000 churches vanishing every year.

Western Europe experienced drastic changes over the course of the 20th century. During the 1960s, it experienced terminal decline of virtually all its large, organized churches and the pervasive Christian culture, which influenced Western Europe for centuries, virtually disappeared. Today the streets of major cities throughout Western Europe are peppered with church buildings that lasted longer than the congregations that erected them. Hundreds of church buildings are now being used as restaurants, nightclubs, concert venues, cafés, modern condominiums, museums and mosques. They stand as stark proof that western culture is spitting Christianity out of its mouth.

The change is not really that shocking if you think about it. Churches are made up of sinners, and sin kills everything it touches. If sinners are going to church, churches will be dying. If churches are dying, new churches are necessary. Every year in America about 4,000 evangelical churches begin. Of those started, 35% close before their 5th anniversary, leaving about 2,600 new churches planted annually. While churches are dying at a significantly higher rate, each year in the U.S. approximately 7,000 churches close their doors forever. All things considered, the number of churches in the U.S. is decreasing by about 4,400 churches per year, while our population is growing by about 3 million people per year.

How is the American church responding to the crisis? We are spending countless millions of dollars erecting buildings that likely will outlast the congregations that erect them. We are building the nightclubs and mosques of tomorrow, while tossing pennies to the establishment of new churches.

As you get busy with your work, you will be tempted to find the measure of your success based on the number of people you successfully gather for worship. Please keep in mind that the mission of the church was to scatter, not to gather. Instead of measuring the success of your church by the harvest you gather, concentrate your energy and measure your success based on the seed that you scatter.

Churches have a life cycle and eventually die, and one day yours will too. My prayer is that you would plant a church vigorously committed to planting other new churches. I pray you will stretch the faith of your people, not so they can have a larger building to worship in, but that Christ may have a larger kingdom of worshipers.


PUBLISHED DECEMBER 8, 2021


I know it's just a building, but it's sad. I've seen my former church torn down, or sold and become something else. It makes you wonder what became of the real church that congregated in that building: the body of Christ, as something that old probably did have memebres of the body of Christ in attendance. Today, there are lot's of churches where it's another body and another Spirit, but I'm not talking about that.

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AlexB23

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(Hopefully this is the right forum for this.)

Your Church is Going to Die

BY CLINT CLIFTON

People rarely consider how churches begin and almost never consider how they end. Churches, just like people, have lifecycles. They are born and they die. Where is your church in its lifecycle?
Have you ever considered how close your church is to death? In his book, “The Unstuck Church: Equipping Churches to Experience Sustained Health” Tony Morgan describes seven stages of a church’s life.


  1. Launch
  2. Momentum Growth
  3. Strategic Growth
  4. Sustained health
  5. Maintenance
  6. Preservation
  7. Life Support
Where is your church in this lifecycle?

People rarely consider how churches begin and almost never consider how they end. Churches, just like people, have lifecycles. They are born and they die. They close their doors, they sell their buildings, they liquidate their assets, and they stop gathering.

If you don’t believe me, get on a plane to Jerusalem and look for the church first pastored by James. Then skip over to Turkey and see if you can find the church at Antioch still meeting. Those churches are closed, disbanded and scattered. American churches are closing too, and not just one or two at a time – they are closing by the thousands. This Sunday morning when you go to church, about 135 fewer American churches will be gathering than gathered the same time last week. That’s 600 churches disbanding every month – and 7,000 churches vanishing every year.

Western Europe experienced drastic changes over the course of the 20th century. During the 1960s, it experienced terminal decline of virtually all its large, organized churches and the pervasive Christian culture, which influenced Western Europe for centuries, virtually disappeared. Today the streets of major cities throughout Western Europe are peppered with church buildings that lasted longer than the congregations that erected them. Hundreds of church buildings are now being used as restaurants, nightclubs, concert venues, cafés, modern condominiums, museums and mosques. They stand as stark proof that western culture is spitting Christianity out of its mouth.

The change is not really that shocking if you think about it. Churches are made up of sinners, and sin kills everything it touches. If sinners are going to church, churches will be dying. If churches are dying, new churches are necessary. Every year in America about 4,000 evangelical churches begin. Of those started, 35% close before their 5th anniversary, leaving about 2,600 new churches planted annually. While churches are dying at a significantly higher rate, each year in the U.S. approximately 7,000 churches close their doors forever. All things considered, the number of churches in the U.S. is decreasing by about 4,400 churches per year, while our population is growing by about 3 million people per year.

How is the American church responding to the crisis? We are spending countless millions of dollars erecting buildings that likely will outlast the congregations that erect them. We are building the nightclubs and mosques of tomorrow, while tossing pennies to the establishment of new churches.

As you get busy with your work, you will be tempted to find the measure of your success based on the number of people you successfully gather for worship. Please keep in mind that the mission of the church was to scatter, not to gather. Instead of measuring the success of your church by the harvest you gather, concentrate your energy and measure your success based on the seed that you scatter.

Churches have a life cycle and eventually die, and one day yours will too. My prayer is that you would plant a church vigorously committed to planting other new churches. I pray you will stretch the faith of your people, not so they can have a larger building to worship in, but that Christ may have a larger kingdom of worshipers.



PUBLISHED DECEMBER 8, 2021


I know it's just a building, but it's sad. I've seen my former church torn down, or sold and become something else. It makes you wonder what became of the real church that congregated in that building: the body of Christ, as something that old probably did have memebres of the body of Christ in attendance. Today, there are lot's of churches where it's another body and another Spirit, but I'm not talking about that.

View attachment 345997
Maybe my explanation below can show why churches are declining in popularity, which is sad.


Sources: Cross-National Trends in Religious Service Attendance , Religious Diversity in America | Othering & Belonging Institute , https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ing-no-christianity-is-shifting-dramatically/ (use a paywall blocker, cos WaPo is notorious for wanting to wring money out of people),

Explanation:
The religious landscape in the Western hemisphere has undergone significant changes over the past few decades. One notable trend is the decline in church attendance and the shrinking number of regular churchgoers.

One of the primary causes of the decline in church attendance is demographic shifts, particularly the aging population and changing family structures. Additionally, families with both parents working long hours often struggle to find time for religious activities.

Another factor contributing to the decline of churchgoers is secularization, or the increasing separation of religion from everyday life. This trend has led many people to view religious practices as less relevant to their lives and to prioritize other activities instead.

Religious institutions are also facing competition from worldly spiritual practices, such as self-help/meditation, yoga, and mindfulness. These practices offer individuals a means of spiritual exploration that may not require the commitment or structure of traditional religious institutions.

Many young people have expressed frustration with the perceived irrelevance or hypocrisy of churches. They may feel that religious institutions do not address their concerns or offer solutions to the challenges they face in their lives. This disillusionment can lead them to seek spiritual fulfillment elsewhere, such as through personal practice or alternative spiritual communities.
 
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Kokavkrystallos

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Maybe my explanation below can show why churches are declining in popularity, which is sad.


Sources: Cross-National Trends in Religious Service Attendance , Religious Diversity in America | Othering & Belonging Institute , https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ing-no-christianity-is-shifting-dramatically/ (use a paywall blocker, cos WaPo is notorious for wanting to wring money out of people),

Explanation:
The religious landscape in the Western hemisphere has undergone significant changes over the past few decades. One notable trend is the decline in church attendance and the shrinking number of regular churchgoers.

One of the primary causes of the decline in church attendance is demographic shifts, particularly the aging population and changing family structures. Additionally, families with both parents working long hours often struggle to find time for religious activities.

Another factor contributing to the decline of churchgoers is secularization, or the increasing separation of religion from everyday life. This trend has led many people to view religious practices as less relevant to their lives and to prioritize other activities instead.

Religious institutions are also facing competition from worldly spiritual practices, such as self-help/meditation, yoga, and mindfulness. These practices offer individuals a means of spiritual exploration that may not require the commitment or structure of traditional religious institutions.

Many young people have expressed frustration with the perceived irrelevance or hypocrisy of churches. They may feel that religious institutions do not address their concerns or offer solutions to the challenges they face in their lives. This disillusionment can lead them to seek spiritual fulfillment elsewhere, such as through personal practice or alternative spiritual communities.

Yes all that. And more.

Megachurches are thriving but it's all about entertainment and positivity, with very little cross of Christ. As someone said, "no cross, no crown."

All the prophecies also point to an apostasy, men departing from the faith, seducing spirits, doctrines of devils.

And a big part of it is the sheer lack of Holy Ghost anointed preachers who can deliver a blazing hot burning fire, and then the cooling refreshing waters of life to cool it - which mainly amounts to heavy conviction and the indwelling of the Spirit to establish one as a new creature in Christ.
 
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AlexB23

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Yes all that. And more.

Megachurches are thriving but it's all about entertainment and positivity, with very little cross of Christ. As someone said, "no cross, no crown."

All the prophecies also point to an apostasy, men departing from the faith, seducing spirits, doctrines of devils.

And a big part of it is the sheer lack of Holy Ghost anointed preachers who can deliver a blazing hot burning fire, and then the cooling refreshing waters of life to cool it - which mainly amounts to heavy conviction and the indwelling of the Spirit to establish one as a new creature in Christ.
I could add a lot more stuff, but then my post would get long. Do not get me started on the pastor that kicked a Bible during a church service during the week of the Super Bowl (American Football is boring anyway, and does not belong in a church): Ohio megachurch pastor kicks Bible off stage during Super Bowl Sunday service

That stuff makes my blood boil.
 
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Kokavkrystallos

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I could add a lot more stuff, but then my post would get long. Do not get me started on the pastor that kicked a Bible during a church service during the week of the Super Bowl (American Football is boring anyway, and does not belong in a church): Ohio megachurch pastor kicks Bible off stage during Super Bowl Sunday service

That stuff makes my blood boil.

Oh man, wow....same here. Blasphemy, and it's worse than just that blatant disrespect for the Word of God.
I can see Jesus pulling one of His temple clearings in such a place. Another site called it a cult.

 
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bèlla

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There's also the willing rejection of traditional gatherings and the return of smaller ones like house churches. Some rectories and smaller buildings are converted into residences. My former stylist turned one into a salon but kept the structure and windows. I see the same occurring in the UK and France.

I prefer properties with chapels as the primary place of worship. You own the land and the building and don't have to deal with any foolishness.

~bella
 
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AlexB23

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Oh man, wow....same here. Blasphemy, and it's worse than just that blatant disrespect for the Word of God.
I can see Jesus pulling one of His temple clearings in such a place. Another site called it a cult.

And, don't forget Kenneth Copeland's sickening teachings, or this evil Missouri pastor who calls mental illness a product of demons (I have autism myself, so I am glad that this pastor's church is 700 km or 400 miles away): https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article279280609.html
 
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Kokavkrystallos

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And, don't forget Kenneth Copeland's sickening teachings, or this evil Missouri pastor who calls mental illness a product of demons (I have autism myself, so I am glad that this pastor's church is 700 km or 400 miles away): https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article279280609.html

No they don't have to say "God made them that way." It's the result of living in a fallen world and original sin that causes corruption of varying kinds.
Now there are certain circumstances where a mental illness is demonic, especially when it comes to schizophrenia or multiple personalities. And not all those are demonic either, though some preachers claim they are.

I've dealt with so called mental illness myself and known many who have had varying diagnoses from borderline personality disorder, to social anxiety, bipolar, schizoaffective bipolar, and full blow paranoid schizophrenia. I also learned that DIET contributes to a lot of mental illness, as does substance abuse.

I also know the Word of God can deliver from any type of illness, but sometimes healing doesn't happen. I do not believe that means anyone lacks faith, for the Apostle Paul himself was refused his request for God to remove the "thorn in the flesh, a messenger from Satan to buffet him"
Epaphroditus was sick nigh unto death because he overworked himself in the ministry, and Timothy also was sick.

Praise the LORD in heaven that in the end we shall all be delivered if we persevere to the end, which is His promise to those who are kept by the power of His Word, those chosen and adopted as sons and daughters of the Most High.

It's funny, in the Chosen movies Matthew is depicted as autistic. I know that's not in scripture, but Matthew does pay very close attention to detail.
 
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AlexB23

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No they don't have to say "God made them that way." It's the result of living in a fallen world and original sin that causes corruption of varying kinds.
Now there are certain circumstances where a mental illness is demonic, especially when it comes to schizophrenia or multiple personalities. And not all those are demonic either, though some preachers claim they are.

I've dealt with so called mental illness myself and known many who have had varying diagnoses from borderline personality disorder, to social anxiety, bipolar, schizoaffective bipolar, and full blow paranoid schizophrenia. I also learned that DIET contributes to a lot of mental illness, as does substance abuse.

I also know the Word of God can deliver from any type of illness, but sometimes healing doesn't happen. I do not believe that means anyone lacks faith, for the Apostle Paul himself was refused his request for God to remove the "thorn in the flesh, a messenger from Satan to buffet him"
Epaphroditus was sick nigh unto death because he overworked himself in the ministry, and Timothy also was sick.

Praise the LORD in heaven that in the end we shall all be delivered if we persevere to the end, which is His promise to those who are kept by the power of His Word, those chosen and adopted as sons and daughters of the Most High.

It's funny, in the Chosen movies Matthew is depicted as autistic. I know that's not in scripture, but Matthew does pay very close attention to detail.
A guy named Frank here discussed about autism with me a few months ago. He says because Adam & Eve sinned, disease made it into humans, but God gave silver linings to some diseases, and that autism may make it more difficult, but God understands, and knows the road is steep, but is understanding of folks with disabilities overcoming obstacles which non-disabled folks may find mundane and easy. :) And I have overcome some of those obstacles. It is still 2x more difficult to make friends, and 2x as difficult to read social cues, but I can overcome these things through the help of God, and supportive family and a circle of people.
 
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bèlla

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All mental illness isn't biological. Some conditions (mental and otherwise) are the result of other factors. Diet is one of them as @Kokavkrystallos noted and spiritual maladies are another. The latter would be inherited from parents and you'd need to have your familial history on both sides. Many things travel through bloodlines including spirits.

There was a time when you didn't hear about ADHD, autism, aspergers, social anxiety and so on. They were rare not plentiful. We had a different society back then. It was more wholesome and less corrupt.

I don't accept disease as a norm or the medical cocktail that follows. If I have a problem I'm warring against it in prayer until my healing comes. Physicians have a place but the Great Physician is foremost.

Spirits of infirmity come from python and people who have it have specific qualities. It's usually the result of hatred, bitterness, and unforgiveness. Envy can lead you lead you as will lust and vows. As you grow in maturity you can see behind situations and prayer requests. I don't jump in everything.

~bella
 
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Kokavkrystallos

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All mental illness isn't biological. Some conditions (mental and otherwise) are the result of other factors. Diet is one of them as @Kokavkrystallos noted and spiritual maladies are another. The latter would be inherited from parents and you'd need to have your familial history on both sides. Many things travel through bloodlines including spirits.

There was a time when you didn't hear about ADHD, autism, aspergers, social anxiety and so on. They were rare not plentiful. We had a different society back then. It was more wholesome and less corrupt.

I don't accept disease as a norm or the medical cocktail that follows. If I have a problem I'm warring against it in prayer until my healing comes. Physicians have a place but the Great Physician is foremost.

Spirits of infirmity come from python and people who have it have specific qualities. It's usually the result of hatred, bitterness, and unforgiveness. Envy can lead you lead you as will lust and vows. As you grow in maturity you can see behind situations and prayer requests. I don't jump in everything.

~bella

Spiritual maladies do contribute. Even so called "innocent" partaking of things like astrology, ouija boards, or even watching movies with dark themes, or portraying dark arts like Harry Potter or Twilight can lead to "mental" problems that would soon dissipate if the afflicted one were to put away whatever it is that opens the door.
Rock music is a big one too, I didn't mention - but that can actually rewire your brain.

"Increasing evidence supports the idea that active or passive engagement with music and related interventions offers valuable insights into the brain’s plasticity as music proves effective in reorganising the brain across various medical conditions,
writes Dr Praveen Kumar Kaudlay"
Read more at: A musical way to rewire the brain

"Music making and listening incorporates multiple sensory modalities and activates various neural pathways in the brain. This multimodal and multisensory attribute of music explains its role in mediating plastic changes in the nervous system. In the recent past, music-based interventions have been used to facilitate functional improvement through re-organization of neural circuitry in various conditions"

Now when Dark music is listened to over and over again, and at loud decibel, it can affect the brain negatively. Discussed that in my posts about rock music and the devils chord.

"The emotional tone of music may influence the listeners' emotional state. Some studies have indicated that listening to melancholic and intense music may induce or exacerbate negative emotions (Hahn et al., 2022)"

"Rumination, or repetitive thinking or dwelling on negative feelings, can occur when a teen is listening to sad music to induce rumination and therefore experiences affective harm via the worsening of mood. In addition, researchers find that music-induced harm can occur when people listen to self-identified sad music during moments of psychological distress. Among teens, this can be potentially harmful when music is used with the intention of attaining feelings of support, but instead, the music intensifies symptoms which can result in behaviors that are unhealthy or harmful. Researchers also find that it is important to understand the influence of peer subcultures and the potential influence of preferred music on self-injurious behavior."

I'd say dark music probably plays a big role in mental health problems: not only does it rewire the brain causing a physical effect, but a lot of music is strait demonic in origin, both the chords and the lyrics, so listening to it gives a person a double whammy of both physical and spiritual trauma.
 
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PloverWing

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People rarely consider how churches begin and almost never consider how they end. Churches, just like people, have lifecycles. They are born and they die. They close their doors, they sell their buildings, they liquidate their assets, and they stop gathering.

If you don’t believe me, get on a plane to Jerusalem and look for the church first pastored by James. Then skip over to Turkey and see if you can find the church at Antioch still meeting. Those churches are closed, disbanded and scattered.

Churches have a life cycle and eventually die, and one day yours will too. My prayer is that you would plant a church vigorously committed to planting other new churches.

I agree with Clint Clifton, the quoted author in the OP, that Europe became more secular in the 20th century, and the US seems to be following suit. I agree that churches need to pay attention to that, and perhaps alter some of the ways we do things. I also agree that everything ends; natural and human-made disasters strike, populations shift, and so on.

What's odd, though, is Clifton's focus on individual congregations, as though we're not part of anything larger than the people who gather in this one building. My congregation is small (about 150), but we're part of the diocese of New Jersey, which is part of the Episcopal Church, which is part of the Anglican Communion. Churches in this larger sense have much longer lifetimes, measured in centuries or millennia.

The author mocks the idea of the church in Jerusalem and the church in Antioch, but the Greek Orthodox Church still persists in both places (Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem - Wikipedia, Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch - Wikipedia). The Gates of Hades have not yet prevailed against them.

I guess it's strange to me to think of our congregation acting alone to start new congregations. More likely, we'd work with other Episcopalians in the state to discern the need for a new congregation in a new place, and then we'd work together to start the new mission congregation. Clifton and Morgan speak as if our congregations are all mini-denominations acting in isolation, which is not how I see the church.
 
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Joseph G

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I don't worry about national trends, I believe God always has a remnant to carry on His work. My church, for example, has been around for 80 years. I believe it is because the line of pastors have been faithful to preach the Bible without compromise or watering it down. They also take discipleship and outreach seriously. This past Sunday we had 21 baptisms with more to come this Sunday - what a thrill to witness! The day that all changes I'll find another church.

I'm sure your all churches are thriving, too, for the same reasons. Maybe the ones that are closing need to be closed!
 
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A guy named Frank here discussed about autism with me a few months ago. He says because Adam & Eve sinned, disease made it into humans, but God gave silver linings to some diseases, and that autism may make it more difficult, but God understands, and knows the road is steep, but is understanding of folks with disabilities overcoming obstacles which non-disabled folks may find mundane and easy. :) And I have overcome some of those obstacles. It is still 2x more difficult to make friends, and 2x as difficult to read social cues, but I can overcome these things through the help of God, and supportive family and a circle of people.

Neither being autistic nor being gay are a sin or something one should feel shame for. Everybody has some gift to offer the world. It is worldly to think that these things make a person of lesser dignity.

Part of the reason that churches are declining, at least in the US, is that too often Christians have forgotten to recognized the image of God in their fellow human beings. They have replaced worldly politics with the call of Christ to serve their neighbor without prejudice.
 
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AlexB23

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Neither being autistic nor being gay are a sin or something one should feel shame for. Everybody has some gift to offer the world. It is worldly to think that these things make a person of lesser dignity.

Part of the reason that churches are declining, at least in the US, is that too often Christians have forgotten to recognized the image of God in their fellow human beings. They have replaced worldly politics with the call of Christ to serve their neighbor without prejudice.
Agreed 100%.
 
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Neither being autistic nor being gay are a sin or something one should feel shame for. Everybody has some gift to offer the world. It is worldly to think that these things make a person of lesser dignity.

Part of the reason that churches are declining, at least in the US, is that too often Christians have forgotten to recognized the image of God in their fellow human beings. They have replaced worldly politics with the call of Christ to serve their neighbor without prejudice.

Being autistic is not sin. If by "gay" you mean the original meaning of the word, no, but if meaning homosexual, then that is sin. The Scriptures are very clear on it, despite the twisting of scripture done by some churches that accept it, endorse it, and practice it. It is something people should repent of if practicing, just as one would repent of their adultery or fornication - and I learned the lesson the hard way with those two!

I do agree many don't practice the "love thy neighbor as thyself" as should be, and as far as politics - worldly politics has become an idol in some churches.
 
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FireDragon76

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Being autistic is not sin. If by "gay" you mean the original meaning of the word, no, but if meaning homosexual, then that is sin.

Nobody chooses to be gay. It is an intrinsic part of a person. Trying to pretend this isn't the case is just intellectually dishonest.

despite the twisting of scripture done by some churches that accept it, endorse it, and practice it. It is something people should repent of if practicing, just as one would repent of their adultery or fornication - and I learned the lesson the hard way with those two!

I belong to one of those churches. We don't think we are twisting the Scriptures. We believe we are being faithful by rejecting harmful, discriminatory or prejudicial attitudes about gay people, and we reject weaponizing certain passages in the Bible against minorities, even though this was done in the past against other groups of people.
 
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All mental illness isn't biological. Some conditions (mental and otherwise) are the result of other factors. Diet is one of them as @Kokavkrystallos noted and spiritual maladies are another. The latter would be inherited from parents and you'd need to have your familial history on both sides. Many things travel through bloodlines including spirits.

There was a time when you didn't hear about ADHD, autism, aspergers, social anxiety and so on. They were rare not plentiful. We had a different society back then. It was more wholesome and less corrupt.


~bella

There have always been neurodivergent people. It's not a new thing that is the result of corruption or unwholesomeness necessarily. Society has become more complicated, with less clear rules and hierarchies in some cases, and that has created its own set of challenges for neurodivergent people. And the nature of work has also changed. A century ago, most Americans still worked on farms, for instance, and might have interacted with only a few people during a week.
 
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Joseph G

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Nobody chooses to be gay. It is an intrinsic part of a person. Trying to pretend this isn't the case is just intellectually dishonest.



I belong to one of those churches. We don't think we are twisting the Scriptures. We believe we are being faithful by rejecting harmful, discriminatory or prejudicial attitudes about gay people, and we reject weaponizing certain passages in the Bible against minorities, even though this was done in the past against other groups of people.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 NIV​

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Romans 1:26-27 NIV​

"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

Isaiah 5:20 NIV​

"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."

Matthew 24:35 NIV​

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."
 
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FireDragon76

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2 Timothy 3:16-17 NIV​

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Romans 1:26-27 NIV​

"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

Isaiah 5:20 NIV​

"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."

Matthew 24:35 NIV​

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

That just proves my point about the weaponization of the Scriptures, and the lack of a Christ-like hermeneutic in many churches.
 
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