Baptismal Regeneration

[MarkRohfrietsch]

This is what is said when scripture does not show it.

And this is what is said when the promises of baptism in Scripture are overlooked.

 

[Rev Randy]

And this is what is said when the promises of baptism in Scripture are overlooked.

And THIS is what scripture says,
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

And THIS is what scripture says,
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

 

[Schroeder]

And THIS is what scripture says,
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

well you can be water baptized and not be saved but you can't not believe and be saved or spirit baptized. The reason on the emphasis on belief. The point of salvation is what jesus did. He did what was necessary to deal with sin. There is nothing we can do to deal with sin. Doing a rite is doing something physical. You can add the spiritual all you want but there is still a physical part involved by us. Which scripture says is not possible to deal with sin. christ did the physical. We are asked to believe it.

 

[Rev Randy]

well you can be water baptized and not be saved but you can't not believe and be saved or spirit baptized. The reason on the emphasis on belief. The point of salvation is what jesus did. He did what was necessary to deal with sin. There is nothing we can do to deal with sin. Doing a rite is doing something physical. You can add the spiritual all you want but there is still a physical part involved by us. Which scripture says is not possible to deal with sin. christ did the physical. We are asked to believe it.

And we are told to be baptized along with believing to be saved.

 

[Tangible]

So when Jesus told the disciples to go and make disciples by baptizing and teaching, was he not speaking of Baptism in water with the Word?

 

[daviddub]

So when Jesus told the disciples to go and make disciples by baptizing and teaching, was he not speaking of Baptism in water with the Word?

No! First of all, he said "disciple, baptizing into the name..." the word "teach" being not the word for teach, but 'to disciple' and the word "in" being not 'en' but 'eis' which is into. Which 'into' is not into water, but into the name...

Baptism in water is not Christ's baptism, but John's, which is why the scripture makes a point (awkwardly even) to say that Jesus did not baptize any in water himself. Jn 4:2

In fact everywhere baptism in water is ever ascribed to anyone in scripture it is John, not Jesus Christ. This is John Baptists whole message, what he only baptizes into "water," and what "he that cometh after me" baptizes into, "Holy Ghost and Fire." John's ministry of water was to decrease, and Christ's into Holy Ghost and fire was to increase. But we've held onto John's, and counterfeited Christs.

Read Job Scott's 'Baptism of Christ,' which you should be able to get online free pdf.

 

[daviddub]

If you understand what it means to be baptized into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost as a real and living baptism, then you will know how cheap and facile it is for a bunch of people to speak something using the appellation "In Jesus name," or baptize so, or pray so, who have themselves never been baptized into his name because they thought the appellation used at some baptism in water was the thing itself.

Additionally, why would they have had to wait at Jerusalem (Ac 1:5,8) for power to do what they had been doing (Jn 4:1-2) without such power (baptizing in water). It doesn't take power to baptize in water. It takes power to baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; that is Christ's baptism, which most professing Christians including myself have never known.

Only then can you understand how silly it is to argue immersion vs sprinkling; or argue to say "Fa/Son/HG" vs saying "Jesus."

The scripture is plain, there is only one baptism (Eph 4:5), which doth now save (1 Pe 3:21), which is by one Spirit into one body (1 Cr 12:13). And those who are joined to the Lord are one spirit (1 Cr 6:17). And they are the only ones who can baptize in the way Christ commanded, because they are the only ones who have power to do it. By which I in no way mean water; in fact, I mean a baptism wholly apart from, and independent of physical water.

Also by power, I don't mean miracles, even though all miracles that have ever been done in the name of Jesus have been done by that same power. The power is above and beyond signs and wonders.

 

[Dispy]

Below is a recent article, pertaining to water baptism, in The Berean Searchlight by Pastor Ricky Kurth.

I am in complete agreement with this article, and will defend it as if I had written it.

>>>THE WATER THAT DIVIDES (A Dispensational Look at Water Baptsm), by Ricky Kurth

In the Bible, God is a divider of waters (Gen. 1:7; Ex. 14:21; Josh. 3:15,16; II Kings 2:8). But let’s face it, when it comes to the subject of baptism, the water divides us! There is no consensus in professing Christendom as to who should be baptized with water, how, or why. With all this confusion, we’d like to suggest an alternative. We would invite you to consider the position that water baptism is not a part of God’s program for today. When water baptism was a part of God’s program, it was always for salvation (Mark 1:4; 16:16; Luke 3:3; Acts 2:38). As you can see from these verses, baptismal regeneration is clearly taught in Scripture, and so naturally it was an integral part of God’s program at that time. However, a dispensational change took place when God later raised up the Apostle Paul and sent him “not to baptize” (I Cor. 1:17). To find out why God made this change, let’s back up and trace the historyof water baptism to its roots.

The Roots of Baptism
Contrary to popular belief, baptism is not a New Testament innovation, it is an Old Testament ordinance. When Hebrews 9:10 speaks of the “diverse washings” of the Old Testament, the Greek word for “washings” here is baptismos. This means that the various washings described under the law were actually baptisms. This explains why the Pharisees didn’t ask John the Baptist what he was doing, they asked why he was doing it (John 1:25). They knew what he was doing from the Old Testament Scriptures, and they themselves had been practicing water baptism since the days of Moses.

One of Israel’s many Old Testament baptisms was performed to prepare men for the priesthood. Speaking of Aaron and his sons (Ex. 28:43), God told Moses:“This is the thing that thou shalt do unto them to hallow them, to minister unto Me in the priest’s office...wash them with water” (Ex. 29:1,4) .We believe that this is why John the Baptist baptized the Jews in “all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem” (Mark 1:5).

You see, just as the tribe of Levi served as priests for the other eleven tribes of Israel, it was God’s intention that someday all twelve tribes would be “a kingdom of priests” to the rest of the world (Ex. 19:5,6; Isa. 66:20,21).

When John the Baptist began his ministry, he announced that “the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matt.3:2), and he meant the kingdom in which Israel was destined to be a kingdom of priests. This is why he baptized them, to prepare them for the priesthood. Incidentally, this is also why water baptism was necessary for salvation. God naturally insists that His priests be saved.

This is also one of the reasons the Lord conducted a healing ministry. Besides proving that He was God in the flesh, His healing ministry also helped prepare the people of Israel for the priesthood. Most Christians know that all animal sacrifices had to be “without blemish” (Ex. 12:5; 29:1, etc.), but it is not well known that the priests who brought those sacrifices also had to be without blemish (Lev. 21:17). If a man was “lame” or “blind,” etc., he couldn’t be a priest in Israel (Lev. 21:17-21).

When the LordJesus began His public ministry, He picked up the cry of John the Baptist and He too announced that “the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matt. 4:17). And just like John, He too was referring to the kingdom in which Israel was to be a kingdom of priests. Looking around, He couldn’t help but notice that many in Israel were blind and lame, and were afflictedwith other such blemishes, and did not qualify to be priests, so He began to heal them.

The Dispensational Change
But as we know, the people of Israel rejected Peter’s offer of the kingdom (Acts 3:19) when they stood by their rejection of Christ with the murder of His prophet Stephen. That’s when God put the kingdom program “on hold,” so to speak, and raised up the Apostle Paul and sent him to the Gentiles(Acts 13:46; 18:6; 28:28) with a new message that did not include water baptism. After the Rapture brings an end to the present dispensation of grace (Eph. 3:2), however, the prophecy of Revelation 1:6 will become a reality, and a new redeemed nation in Israel will be baptized and become God’s priests to the world.

Meanwhile, in the present age, God is not preparing Israel, or anyone else for that matter, to be“kings and priests” to “reign on the earth” (Rev. 5:10) in the millennial kingdom (20:6). He is rather preparing members of the Body of Christ to reign in the heavens (Eph. 1:18-23) over the angels (I Cor. 6:3). That’s why Paul, the apostle of us Gentiles (Rom. 11:13; 15:16) tells us that he was not sent to baptize (I Cor. 1:17), for people today do not need to be prepared for the priesthood, and water baptism is no longer necessary for salvation. Believers today are saved by “the washing of regeneration” (Titus 3:5), not the washing of water baptism. Water baptism is a work, and salvation is “not of works” in this dispensation (Rom. 4:5; Eph. 2:8,9; Titus 3:5).

If all this has you wondering why Paul would then speak of “one baptism” (Eph. 4:5), we would suggest that he was not speaking of water baptism here, but rather of the baptism by the Spirit that places us into Christ the moment we believe the gospel (ICor. 12:13). Since there are many different baptisms in the Bible (Matt. 20:22; Luke 12:50; I Cor. 10:1,2, etc.), when Paul says that there is only “one baptism,” he must mean that there is only one baptism that is a part of God’s program today, in the dispensation of grace. To add water baptism to this baptism by the Spirit would make two baptisms, something that would run contrary to Paul’s words in Ephesians 4:5.

With this Spirit baptism, we are “complete in Him” (Col. 2:10), completely circumcised with a spiritual

circumcision (v. 11), and completely baptized with a spiritual baptism (v. 12). Being “buried with Him in baptism” here cannot refer to immersion in water, for Paul adds that we are “risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God.” This is rather a reference to how we were “baptized into Jesus ", and be addressed later in this article.

We know it is often argue that we should be baptized with water to represent our spiritual baptism, but if this be so, then to be consistent we should also be circumcised to represent our spiritual circumcision—something the book of Galatians forbids (5:2,3).

Questions About Baptism
If John baptized people to make the Jews God’s priests to the nations, why did the Lord later send the twelve apostles out to baptize “all nations” (Matt. 28:19)? Well, here we have to remember that baptism was also for the remission of sins (Mark 16:16), and the nations needed to be saved. Plus, under the kingdom program, Gentiles were considered unclean, and needed to be purified, just as thes poils of Israel’s wars with the Gentiles stood in similar need of the purifying water of separation (Num. 31:23).

If it be asked why Paul allowed himself to be baptized by Ananias (Acts 9:17,18), it should beremembered that the new program that God was instituting, the one in which water baptism would play no part, was not given to Ananias, it was given later to Paul! Ananias baptized Paul because “repent and be baptized...for the remission of sins” was part of the kingdom program, the only program he knew. We know that Paul was saved before he was baptized, however, for the Lord commissioned him before he was baptized (Acts 26:17), and He would never have sent an unsaved man to be His apostle tthe Gentiles. Hearing that Paul was already a saved and commissioned “chosen vessel” (Acts 9:15), Ananias did what Peter did when Cornelius got saved without water baptism. Not knowing what else to do, and having received no further instructions from God, he shrugged, as it were, and baptized Paul after he was saved (cf. Acts 10:44-48).

If you are wondering why Paul himself practiced water baptism in his early ministry (Acts 16:15,33), it is because God revealed the new program to him gradually. Nearly a quarter century after he was saved, Paul still spoke of revelations that he had yet to receive from the Lord (II Cor. 12:1). With this in mind, it is significant that after Paul learned he was not sent to baptize and shared that information with us (I Cor. 1:17), we don’t see him performing any additional baptisms in the Book of Acts.

Now that we know why Paul baptized people, let’s ask a far more important question: why did he stop baptizing people? We know that it is often claimed that he stopped baptizing because it was causing divisions (I Cor. 1:11-14). However, the Lord didn’t stop teaching the truth when He saw that it was dividing people (John 7:43; 9:16; 10:19) because He knew that teaching the truth is what God the Father sent Him to do. Similarly, Paul would not have stopped baptizing if he were sent to baptize, but he knew that he wasn’t (I Cor. 1:17). If he knew that water baptism was a part of God’s program in the dispensation of grace, there is simply no way that he would have stopped baptizing people for any reason

.It is often taught that we should be baptized because the Lord was baptized, but He was also circumcised the eighth day in a religious ceremony. Should we do the same for our sons, to follow His example in this as well? Remember, the reason the Lord was baptized was to identify Him as Israel’s Messiah, the other reason John baptized people (John 1:25-34). When the Spirit descended upon Him alone, out of all the people baptized by John, it singled Him out as their Christ. But there would certainly be no precedent in a reason like this for us to be baptized.John’s assertion that he baptized the Lord to identify Him to Israel leads us to a discussion of...

The Meaning of Baptism

To be continued.

 

[Dispy]

Part 2

The Meaning of Baptism
The meaning of baptism in the Bible is identification. To demonstrate this, let’s start by considering theBible’s first baptism.

Paul tells us that the people of Israel were “baptized unto Moses” at the Red Sea (I Cor. 10:1,2), one of the many baptisms in the Bible that have nothing to do with getting wet. Caught between the rock of Pharaoh’s advancing chariots and the hard place of the divided Red Sea, the people of Israel didn’t know what to do. If they entered the divided sea, the waters might close on them as mysteriously as they had opened. But they knew for sure what was going to happen when Pharaoh’s army caught up with them. Faced with this “no-brainer” decision, they said, in effect, “We’re with Moses,” and, following him into the divided sea, they were baptized unto him as they identified themselves with him.

This then is the Holy Spirit’s definition of the very first baptism in the Bible, and this is highly significant. There is a hermeneutic principle called “the law of first mention,” a rule that says that the first mention of something in Scripture defines it, and sets the tone for how it will be used in Scripture. With that in mind, let’s see if other Bible baptisms are also associated with identification.

Israel’s priests were baptized to “hallow” (Ex. 29:1,4) and “cleanse” them (Num. 8:5-7), but this initiation ceremony would also of course identify them as priests in the eyes of the people. Just as the Lord was identified as Israel’s Messiah when He was baptized and the Spirit descended upon Him, sothe sons of Aaron were identified as Israel’s priests when they were baptized with water (Ex. 29:4) and then anointed with oil (v. 7), oil being a type of the Spirit. Believing Jews in Acts 2 were similarly identified as God’s priests to the world when they were baptized with water, then anointed with the Spirit.

Our Lord’s baptism also identified Him with us. He was no sinner, but if He was going to die for us sinners, He was going to have to be identified with sinners. Well, John’s baptism was a sinner’s baptism (Matt. 3:6), so the Lord submitted to it “to fulfil all righteousness” (Matt. 3:15). That is, His baptism identified Him with sinners so that later we might be“made the righteousness of God in Him” (II Cor. 5:21).


Our Lord’s death on the cross was also a baptism and an identification. Years after His baptism with water, He spoke of another baptism that He had yet to be baptized with (Luke 12:50), an obvious reference to His impending death at Calvary. We know that His death was also an identification, for Isaiah says that “He was numbered with the transgressors” when He “poured out His soul unto death” (53:12). Mark quotes these words and affirms that they were fulfilled when the Lord poured out His soul between two thieves (Mark 15:27,28). Anyone passing by thatday would have seen Him as justanother man dying on a cross, and “Now that we know why Paul baptized...why did he stop...?”

It would naturally have assumed that He was a lawbreaker, just another transgressor, like those crucified with Him. Thus He was numbered with the transgressors as He was identified with them in the baptism of His death.In yet another Bible baptism, James and John asked if they could be identified with the Lord in His kingdom glory. He patiently explained to them that they must first be willing to be identified with Him in death (Mark 10:35-40).

Identification helps us to understand what Paul was talking about when he wrote to describe.. Our Baptism Into Christ Paul tells believers that we were “baptized into Jesus Christ” (Rom. 6:3). Whatever this baptism is, it places us into Christ, i.e., into the Body of Christ (I Cor. 12:13). If we say that this speaks of water baptism, then we must say that water baptism saves us, for only by being saved can we be placed into Christ.

We believe Paul is rather speaking about how we were baptized into Christ by being “baptized into His death” (Rom. 6:3), i.e., by being identified with Him in His death for our sins. Just as He was identified with us in our unrighteousness when He was baptized with water and later numbered with the transgressors, so now believers are identified with Him in His righteousness when we are baptized into His death for our sins (cf. II Cor. 5:21).

We know that Romans 6 cannot be speaking of water baptism, for the subject in the context here is power over sin (6:1,2,6-13). Water baptism cannot give power over sin, but our baptism into Christ can. To understand how, we must first consider the power that sin had over us before we were saved.

While this is not something that is commonly understood, everything an unbeliever does is sin, even something as amora as plowing his field (Prov. 21:4). When a believing farmer plows, it is a righteous thing, for he is being obedient to God’s command to work for a living (Ex. 20:9; II Thes. 3:11,12). But God says that when an unbelieving farmer plows, it is sin. If that puzzles you, consider that even an unbeliever’s “righteousnesses,” i.e., even the goodthings he does, are as filthy rags in God’s sight (Isa. 64:6). That’s because God considers good things done by unbelievers to be selfrighteousness,something He hates with a passion. This explains why the Lord will consider the goodworks done by unbelievers as “iniquity” when He judges them (Matt. 7:21-23).

That was the power of sin in your life before you were saved. You had to sin because everything you did was sin in the eyes of God. You didn’t have a choice. You couldn’t choose to not sin. This faith, their emphasis on soul-winning, and many other admirable spiritual qualities command the respect of all believers, ourselves included. We simply respectfully disagree with them on this issue. Nor are we unique in our view, for there are other groups that do not practice water baptism, such as the Quakers and members of the Salvation Army, although their reasons for not practicing water baptism no doubt differ from our own.And so it is that our intention in writing these words was not to attack any who practice water baptism. We only wrote to present what we believe to be the truth of God’s Word. Nor was it our intention to further divide the brethren by presenting yet another view of water baptism. Rather we have submitted these words that God’s people might be “perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment” (I Cor. 1:10). We feel this can only be brought about, however, as Paul himself went on to say in this passage, by a recognition that Paul was not sent to baptize (v. 17), and neither are we, if we are to follow him as he followed Christ (I Cor. 4:16; 11:1).is why, later in Romans 6, Paul asserts that before we were saved we had a master-slave relationship with sin (v. 17). A slave has to do everything the master says; he doesn’t have a choice. In the same way, an unsaved man must sin; he doesn’t have a choice.

The Power of Baptism
A slave’s only hope of being released from the tyranny of his master was death. That’s why in Romans 6 our salvation, our identification with Christ in His death, is the key to our sin problem, not water baptism. Our baptism intoChrist, our identification with Him in salvation, is the only thing that gives us power over sin. It is the only thing that gives us the power to choose not to sin.It is not that our baptism into Christ makes it easier to choose not to sin, it’s just that salvation makes it possible for us not to sin. Now we can choose not to sin, whereas before we were saved we couldn’t, since everything we did was sin. Now when we do good works, God considers them to be good works (Eph. 2:10; Titus 2:14; 3:8), not iniquity. Water baptism cannot give us this power over sin, but our identification with Christ in salvation, our baptism into His death for our sins, can make it so that now we can choose not to sin.

Our Respect for Baptists

We must not close this discussion of such a sensitive subject without affirming the great love and respect that we have for those of the Baptist faith. Their historic stand for the fundamentals of the Endnotes

1. God used this event in the life of His former chief apostle to pave the way for the ministry of His new chief apostle, and introduce his radical new message of salvation without water baptism (Acts 15:7-11).



2. The baptism of John’s disciples in Acts 19:5 was not a re-baptism by Paul; this verse is describing how John preached “the baptism ofrepentance...unto the people,” and “when they [the people] heard this, they were baptized,” i.e., by John.

 

[Tangible]

No! First of all, he said "disciple, baptizing into the name..." the word "teach" being not the word for teach, but 'to disciple' and the word "in" being not 'en' but 'eis' which is into. Which 'into' is not into water, but into the name...

Baptism in water is not Christ's baptism, but John's, which is why the scripture makes a point (awkwardly even) to say that Jesus did not baptize any in water himself. Jn 4:2

In fact everywhere baptism in water is ever ascribed to anyone in scripture it is John, not Jesus Christ. This is John Baptists whole message, what he only baptizes into "water," and what "he that cometh after me" baptizes into, "Holy Ghost and Fire." John's ministry of water was to decrease, and Christ's into Holy Ghost and fire was to increase. But we've held onto John's, and counterfeited Christs.

Read Job Scott's 'Baptism of Christ,' which you should be able to get online free pdf.

And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?”- Acts 8:36

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. - Eph 5:25

As you can plainly see, Christian Baptism is always with water and the word. The 'eis' also plainly shows that Baptism actually accomplishes something. We are baptized into the name of God. God places his name on us and makes us his own.

We are baptized into Christ (Gal 3), and through this new birth in water and the Spirit (John 3), through this washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior (Titus 3), we were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life (Rom 6).

And while John the Baptizer certainly does make the statement “After me comes he who is mightier than I, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit (Mark 1),” we have the clear word of words of Our Lord himself recorded in scripture which explains that this statement refers specifically to the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” (Acts 1)

The problem that Baptism deniers have in trying to convince those who hold an orthodox view of Baptism that they are wrong is that they think it is only a matter of education, that Baptism supporters don't know what the scriptures say about Baptism. In reality, those who hold the orthodox view have overwhelming scriptural support, and it is the deniers that are often quite ignorant or woefully misinformed of what the scriptures actually about Baptism.

As for Job Scott, why would I want to read someone's unscriptural fantasies?

 

[Tangible]

Below is a recent article, pertaining to water baptism, in The Berean Searchlight by Pastor Ricky Kurth.

Dispy, please don't copy and paste long articles. Not only will no one read them, but it is against CF rules. If you would like to briefly share your own thoughts, please do so.

 

[Rev Randy]

And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?”- Acts 8:36

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. - Eph 5:25

As you can plainly see, Christian Baptism is always with water and the word. The 'eis' also plainly shows that Baptism actually accomplishes something. We are baptized into the name of God. God places his name on us and makes us his own.

We are baptized into Christ (Gal 3), and through this new birth in water and the Spirit (John 3), through this washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior (Titus 3), we were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life (Rom 6).

And while John the Baptizer certainly does make the statement “After me comes he who is mightier than I, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit (Mark 1),” we have the clear word of words of Our Lord himself recorded in scripture which explains that this statement refers specifically to the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” (Acts 1)

The problem that Baptism deniers have in trying to convince those who hold an orthodox view of Baptism that they are wrong is that they think it is only a matter of education, that Baptism supporters don't know what the scriptures say about Baptism. In reality, those who hold the orthodox view have overwhelming scriptural support, and it is the deniers that are often quite ignorant or woefully misinformed of what the scriptures actually about Baptism.

As for Job Scott, why would I want to read someone's unscriptural fantasies?

Oh now don't go using scripture to show the truth.

 

[Schroeder]

And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?”- Acts 8:36

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. - Eph 5:25

As you can plainly see, Christian Baptism is always with water and the word. The 'eis' also plainly shows that Baptism actually accomplishes something. We are baptized into the name of God. God places his name on us and makes us his own.

We are baptized into Christ (Gal 3), and through this new birth in water and the Spirit (John 3), through this washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior (Titus 3), we were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life (Rom 6).

And while John the Baptizer certainly does make the statement “After me comes he who is mightier than I, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit (Mark 1),” we have the clear word of words of Our Lord himself recorded in scripture which explains that this statement refers specifically to the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” (Acts 1)

The problem that Baptism deniers have in trying to convince those who hold an orthodox view of Baptism that they are wrong is that they think it is only a matter of education, that Baptism supporters don't know what the scriptures say about Baptism. In reality, those who hold the orthodox view have overwhelming scriptural support, and it is the deniers that are often quite ignorant or woefully misinformed of what the scriptures actually about Baptism.

As for Job Scott, why would I want to read someone's unscriptural fantasies?

your last part of jesus speaking of baptism of spirit. Paul recalls the same passage in acts 11. This where the gentiles are shown to be spirit baptized. They received the spirit before they where water baptized. Read acts 15:8. Read john 7:38-389. When we believe we receive the spirit. This is spirit baptism. It's is shown we all receive the spirit when we believe. We believe and are baptized. Not believe and go get water baptized. That's why jesus emphasis on belief in mark. Jtb said jesus would baptize all with the spirit. In John 7 it shows us when. Jews first in acts gentiles in chapter 10.

 

[Rev Randy]

your last part of jesus speaking of baptism of spirit. Paul recalls the same passage in acts 11. This where the gentiles are shown to be spirit baptized. They received the spirit before they where water baptized. Read acts 15:8. Read john 7:38-389. When we believe we receive the spirit. This is spirit baptism. It's is shown we all receive the spirit when we believe. We believe and are baptized. Not believe and go get water baptized. That's why jesus emphasis on belief in mark. Jtb said jesus would baptize all with the spirit. In John 7 it shows us when. Jews first in acts gentiles in chapter 10.

What about the first seven eighths of his post?

 

[Schroeder]

What about the first seven eighths of his post?

the eunuch asked if he could be water baptized. Wasn't told he had to.is a vague passage that doesn't have enough context to prove what your trying to. The other passage is the same. The eunuch was shown the scripture old testament. Shown prophecy showing Christ as Messiah not water Baptism. Also he was asked if he believed in Christ before. So it was same as in acts. You believe are spirit baptized then you can get water baptized to show association to the church.

 

[Tangible]

Somethin' about pearls and swine.

 

[Schroeder]

Somethin' about pearls and swine.

which means. If those are your top three for water Baptism then there isn't much scriptural support For it. The whole issue of salvation is dealing with sin. We can't. But we can believe Christ did. We are dabbed through Christ not Christ and a somehow blessed water. We are changing the inside not the outside. It's a actual occurrence. The Spirit changes our inside. Good sees or hearts not our works. acts 15:8.

 

[Rev Randy]

the eunuch asked if he could be water baptized. Wasn't told he had to.is a vague passage that doesn't have enough context to prove what your trying to. The other passage is the same. The eunuch was shown the scripture old testament. Shown prophecy showing Christ as Messiah not water Baptism. Also he was asked if he believed in Christ before. So it was same as in acts. You believe are spirit baptized then you can get water baptized to show association to the church.

So it was just added as an aside?i suppose when Christ said to be saved one must believe AND BE BAPTIZED was also just me making some odd point out of pointless text. (Sarcasm intended)

 

[Rev Randy]

Somethin' about pearls and swine.

I'm reminded of the movie True Grit;
Mattie Ross: I will not bandy words with a drunkard.
LaBoeuf: That's real smart. You've done nothing when you've bested a fool.