Are humans related to other animals?

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wildernesse

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Are they? Please state your thoughts and what you are in regards to creation science, theistic evolution, id-ist, etc.

My thoughts are that humans are related to other animals. I base that on our physiology, including our genetics. We can make accurate predictions about humans based on observations of other animals.

I am a theistic evolutionist.

--tibac
 

wblastyn

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Are they? Please state your thoughts and what you are in regards to creation science, theistic evolution, id-ist, etc.
I don't see why not. CS Lewis believed God created animals first (via evolution), and used evolution to bring creation to perfection, the product being mankind - in the image of God. Kinda lke how God created the universe and the earth was formless and void, He then made the "formless and void" earth into the earth we have today.
 
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Andrew

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I dont think anyone in his right mind (Christian or not) wld want to believe his ancestors swung around trees and went hooo hooo haaa haaaa hooooo!

CS Lewis believed God created animals first (via evolution), and used evolution to bring creation to perfection, the product being mankind - in the image of God.Ê

that's utter heresy! What a contradiction. He can believe Genesis when it says God made the animals, but cant believe it when it goes on to say God made Adam. What's the difference. He might as well have said God made the plants first and then used evolution to evolve the plants into animals. A total distortion of the creation account in Genesis. A seed produced after its kind -- that's God's law.
 
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wildernesse

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I have no problems with the fact that I descended from apes--especially as I am currently still an ape. Would that be the same kind? Our common ancestor with a chimp was an ape, chimps are apes and we are apes. Is "apes" a kind? Could you delineate kinds for us?

For the record, no one thinks that animals evolved from plants--but that plants and animals have a common ancestor.

You seem to have strong opinions about the literal creation account--however, I'm not sure why you're not a more frequent poster in the previous Science section? Surely it is just as important there.

--tibac
 
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fragmentsofdreams

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Today at 04:23 AM Andrew said this in Post #6 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=658135#post658135)

I dont think anyone in his right mind (Christian or not) wld want to believe his ancestors swung around trees and went hooo hooo haaa haaaa hooooo!

God works in mysterious ways. Perhaps, He wishes for us to learn humility.

that's utter heresy! What a contradiction. He can believe Genesis when it says God made the animals, but cant believe it when it goes on to say God made Adam. What's the difference. He might as well have said God made the plants first and then used evolution to evolve the plants into animals. A total distortion of the creation account in Genesis. A seed produced after its kind -- that's God's law.

How do you believe God created Adam?
 
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notto

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Yesterday at 10:23 AM Andrew said this in Post #6 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=658135#post658135)

I dont think anyone in his right mind (Christian or not) wld want to believe his ancestors swung around trees and went hooo hooo haaa haaaa hooooo!

What we want to believe and what actually is don't really correspond.

I dont think anyone in his right mind (Christian or not) would want to believe that the earth is not the center of the universe and that the sun doesn't orbit around the earth! Doesn't make it so. Doesn't pay to deny it.
 
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wblastyn

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I dont think anyone in his right mind (Christian or not) wld want to believe his ancestors swung around trees and went hooo hooo haaa haaaa hooooo!
Why?

that's utter heresy! What a contradiction. He can believe Genesis when it says God made the animals, but cant believe it when it goes on to say God made Adam. What's the difference. He might as well have said God made the plants first and then used evolution to evolve the plants into animals. A total distortion of the creation account in Genesis. A seed produced after its kind -- that's God's law.
CS Lewis did not take Genesis as a literal historical event, rather allegorical for something much more complicated, ie. evolution.

Genesis does not tell us HOW God created mankind.
 
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Andrew

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I have no problems with the fact that I descended from apes--especially as I am currently still an ape. Would that be the same kind? Our common ancestor with a chimp was an ape, chimps are apes and we are apes. Is "apes" a kind? Could you delineate kinds for us?

I dont even know where to begin. You believe you are currently still an ape. THATS A REAL INSULT TO JESUS. is this a Christian section? or am i in the wrong place? The Bible says AS HE IS SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD. I dont think (no I Know so) Jesus has any ape-like qualities or that he's an ape.

Gosh I'm outta here. This section is just to much of a "monkey business" for me.

ps: it wld help if you guys provided scripture support rather than your own opinions based on false science.

Genesis does not tell us HOW God created mankind.

read your Bible again my friend.
 
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wildernesse

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You know what? Jesus was an ape too! At least the part that was completely human!

Humans are pattern-forming creatures--taxonomy is our way of grouping the biological world in manageable chunks. Why do we do this? We like sorting games. Taxonomy is a human construct--whether it is folk taxonomy, Linneanen taxonomy, cladistics, or kinds. Species (and other taxonomic groupings) are simply groups of similar things, biologically speaking. Technically, we made up the rules using our common sense: things with mammary glands go in the mammal group, feathered things go in bird group, plants with this type of foliage go in this group, etc.

The really neat thing is that now we can "check" our common sense rules against the genetic "key". In our DNA, we can detect commonalities with the most closely related species. The less similar your DNA is to another species, the farther away you are in time from your last common ancestor. To me, the most amazing thing about checking our work this way, is that the early naturalists were very good at their taxonomy. You don't often find that an entire family of critters are totally unrelated, molecularly.

So--after that general history lesson, let's talk about the classifications of humans as apes. Humans are in the Kingdom Animalia, Phylum Chordata, Class Mammalia, Order Primates, Family Hominidae, Genus "Homo", Species "sapiens sapiens"

Humans are animals with a neural chord and mammary glands. That takes us through the larger groups from Kingdom to Class. Now let's look at the Order Primates.

Here are some characteristics that *most* things in the Order Primates have in addition to the previous characteristics listed:

*Five digits on their hands and feet
*Grasping feet and hands
*Tendency to have erect bodies (standing, sitting up like humans, not like other 4-limbed animals)
*Clavicles and ball joints in their arm sockets
*Reduced snout
*Diurnal (awake in the daytime)
*Social animals
*Omnivorous

Sounds like we fit in this group rather well! Here is a link with some more info and a few other characteristics.

On to Family - Hominidae. In addition to the characteristics that put us in the higher classifications, members of Hominidae have these characteristics:

*Males are larger than females (sexual dimorphism)
*Opposable thumbs and big toes
*All digits have flattened nails.
*No tails
*No ischial callosities (rear ends like babboons;))
*Same dental structure
*Complex social behavior (facial expressions and complex vocalizations)
*Usually give birth to 1 offspring, extended care.

Except for the opposable toes, we sound good to go here as well! Here is the link.

On to the Genus. This is the human genus--it contains modern humans and our now-extinct ancestors like Homo erectus. We are the only living things in it, so I guess we fit! Same for Species. We are biologically classified as Homo sapiens sapiens. That's us!

If you go back and check our work at the molecular level, you will find that (as is oft-quoted) humans share 99% of our DNA with chimps and bonobos. Chimps are lumped in with us in classification all the way to Hominidae, when they split into the Genus Pan and then into their own species.

So, the short answer is that according to current biological classification, I am an ape. You are too. I have many ape-like qualities, as listed above--and if Jesus was a human like me, he also had ape-like qualities. I mean, I always assumed that a human Jesus would not have ischial callosities and could operate in complex social settings!

I don't feel the need to provide Scripture to back up observations of the natural world, or to explain what modern technology and thought has discovered. When your computer breaks down, do you look through your Bible to figure out how to fix it? When you want to know what type of plant will work best in your garden do you find it in Scripture? I doubt it--when you need information about things in this natural world, you use observations about this natural world.

Scripture teaches me how to interact with God and my fellow humans--not what temperature I need to cook my chicken so I kill all the germs.

--tibac
 
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fragmentsofdreams

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Yesterday at 07:59 PM Andrew said this in Post #12 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=659568#post659568)

I dont even know where to begin. You believe you are currently still an ape. THATS A REAL INSULT TO JESUS. is this a Christian section? or am i in the wrong place? The Bible says AS HE IS SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD. I dont think (no I Know so) Jesus has any ape-like qualities or that he's an ape.

Gosh I'm outta here. This section is just to much of a "monkey business" for me.

ps: it wld help if you guys provided scripture support rather than your own opinions based on false science.



read your Bible again my friend.

Again, how do you believe God created Adam?
 
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LewisWildermuth

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Today at 05:59 PM Andrew said this in Post #12 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=659568#post659568)


Gosh I'm outta here. This section is just to much of a "monkey business" for me.

ps: it wld help if you guys provided scripture support rather than your own opinions based on false science.



read your Bible again my friend.


Can you sight the Bible verse that you use to turn on your computer? What about the one you use to start your car? How about what verses I should use to help me make either a car or a computer?

What? Don't have any? Then I guess cars and computers are evil lies...
 
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I think that we are 'related' to animals.
This is because we are relational ourselves. Many animals are like us ( or us like them) in that respect with community structures to their way of existence.
We are all part of creation and we were all in the Ark together, and we have pets which seem to become more like their masters, so maybe there is some development in evolution yet ( I jest here ) in that we may be developing together...I don't think I am explaining myself here very well.

David
 
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judge

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17th February 2003 at 12:21 AM lucaspa said this in Post #2

Very good.  If we aren't related to other animals, none of the medical drugs or treatements in the last 50+ years would have been possible.  All that research is based on common ancestry and thus being related.

 

Hi ...can you explain why assuming common design would not enable the same treatments?

 

thanks
 
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nyj

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16th February 2003 at 06:21 PM lucaspa said this in Post #2 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=657182#post657182)

Very good. If we aren't related to other animals, none of the medical drugs or treatements in the last 50+ years would have been possible. All that research is based on common ancestry and thus being related.


Convergence could also have been an explanation however. Granted, with most of the relevant species being sequenced, this is eliminated due to the high degree of similiarity, but 50 years ago it could have been a plausible explanation. I think medicine turned to animal studies not because they thought we all shared a common ancestor but because they are cheaper, reproduce at a much faster rate and don't pose the ethical concerns that testing on humans would cause. Even given that we share a common ancestor, much work done in animals never does translate into success when performed in humans.
 
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Late_Cretaceous

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The fact that we are related to animals was obvious to me in the first grade. Not only that, but it seemed obvious to me at the time that there was a certain degree to how related we were to various animals. Watching the kids in the playroom at MacDonald's the other day only reinforces the notion that we are closely related to apes. I guess a bunch of guys watching a football game gives the same impression too (thanks nurse).
 
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Andrew

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Watching the kids in the playroom at MacDonald's the other day only reinforces the notion that we are closely related to apes.

i beg to differ: the evolutionists are related to apes; Christians are related to God.

It's still amuses me Christians want to believe that their great great grandfathers swung from branch to branch going "hoo hoo haa haa eeeee!" More amusing still when they see that in their kids! *LOL
 
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