Seventh-day Adventist denomination - said to be 5th largest Christian denomination world-wide

[The Narrow Way]

Hmmm....I don't believe that the SDA Church is the 5th largest Church in the world. And if it was true...it would be a BAD SIGN because the TRUTH has NEVER been popular.

"Narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW there be that find it..."

 

[The Liturgist]

Hmmm....I don't believe that the SDA Church is the 5th largest Church in the world. And if it was true...it would be a BAD SIGN because the TRUTH has NEVER been popular.

"Narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW there be that find it..."

Indeed, the statistics indicate they are around 10th or 11th in size, depending on how we slice the dataset.

 

[The Liturgist]

I quote observations by independent source - that are not is unfavorable as some would have wished.

I also start a thread on this new off-topic topic
Seventh-day Adventist denomination - said to be 5th largest Christian denomination world-wide

(since this thread is not titled "everything I don't like about the Adventist denomination".)

In fact the title only allows the discussion of "Belief 27".

(Details again)

Just to be clear, the size of the Adventist denomination should have no bearing on whether or not someone likes it. In pointing out that the Adventist Church is not the 5th largest, I was in no way seeking to criticize the SDA but to ensure factual accuracy. My favorite church has less than a million members, maybe as few as 100,000.

 

[BobRyan]

The OP runs with a quote from an article and by these numbers seems to suggest this is a good thing.

Surely there must be a way to view the ChristianityToday statement about the Adventist church being the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world -- "as a bad thing". maybe with some effort. .

So I have post #2 "A pentecost event per day on average" as more information to view as "a good thing" or a "bad thing" by some.

 

[BobRyan]

Just to be clear, the size of the Adventist denomination should have no bearing on whether or not someone likes it.

Agreed - but it does have a bearing on the always-bad-news ideas trying to spin gloom-and-doom for the Adventist denomination unless it makes some sort of immediate about-turn.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Hmmm....I don't believe that the SDA Church is the 5th largest Church in the world. And if it was true...it would be a BAD SIGN because the TRUTH has NEVER been popular.

"Narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW there be that find it..."

"
10th: Seventh Day Adventists – 21million"
The 10 Biggest Christian Denominations in the World - Generation95

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Surely there must be a way to view the ChristianityToday statement about the Adventist church being the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world -- "as a bad thing". maybe with some effort. .

So I have post #2 "A pentecost event per day on average" as more information to view as "a good thing" or a "bad thing" by some.

Christianity Today is not known for accuracy. Please post their full article.

 

[BobRyan]

"
10th: Seventh Day Adventists – 21million"
The 10 Biggest Christian Denominations in the World - Generation95

The SDA denomination is actually a real single denomination having a world wide head quarters and administration and an agreed upon set of doctrines, policies etc that governs the entire group.

By contrast - at that website above all Presbyterian denominations are lumped into "Presbyterianism"
And all baptist groups lumped into one (where a number of them would loudly complain about being lumped in with some of the others)
etc.

I suspect other independent websites might use an actual single point of admin/organization set of doctrines - to determine distinct denomination.

So then - different ways of counting I suppose

 

[BobRyan]

Christianity Today is not known for accuracy. Please post their full article.

I posted the link to it in the OP.

Feel free to dislike ChristianityToday all you wish. I am simply pointing to them as a well-recognized independent source having made a certain observation that is not entirely unfavorable toward Adventists.

I don't think ChristianityToday is on a "mission to prop up Seventh-day Adventists"

 

[BobRyan]

Hmmm....I don't believe that the SDA Church is the 5th largest Church in the world. And if it was true...it would be a BAD SIGN because the TRUTH has NEVER been popular.

I am not sure that "popular" describes the Seventh-day Adventist church and I am not convinced that a group of 25 million is "too many people having truth" when compared to billions who differ if that is what you mean by "truth"

 

[The Liturgist]

The SDA denomination is actually a real single denomination having a world wide head quarters and administration and an agreed upon set of doctrines, policies etc that governs the entire group.

By contrast - at that website above all Presbyterian denominations are lumped into "Presbyterianism"
And all baptist groups lumped into one (where a number of them would loudly complain about being lumped in with some of the others)
etc.

I suspect other independent websites might use an actual single point of admin/organization set of doctrines - to determine distinct denomination.

So then - different ways of counting I suppose

The ChristianityToday article grouped the SDA with communions, that is to say, churches “lumped together” as you put it, or in full communion with each other, as they and I would prefer to put it.

However, I did a count both of communions and individual churches using a slightly older version of the data that is used in the Wikipedia article @icedragon101 linked us to, and counting both communions and individual churches, the SDA is between roughly 10th and 12th place in size, which is, as I have pointed out, still impressive. It is not however the fifth largest church in the world; that turns out to be The Church of England, which makes me happy as I love Anglicanism.

 

[BobRyan]

the SDA is between roughly 10th and 12th place in size, which is, as I have pointed out, still impressive. ... I love Anglicanism.

Depends on "whose counting" and what criteria they use for "what is a denomination".

It is super easy to say the SDA denomination is a real denomination with a single point of administration managing financial policy, one agreed upon set of doctrines and representing the face of the entire denomination.

If we review all other "Denominations" using that criteria when determining the size of any given denomination - then the numbers and ranking of 5th vs 22nd will be affected.

 

[The Liturgist]

The OP is motivate by some hand-wringing posts made recently on this area of the forum to the effect of supposing that the SDA denomination is doing sooo very poorly that it would need to do some drastic doctrinal changing if it wants to survive.

What I point out is that well-known independent non-SDA sources are on record as not having that sort of sky-is-falling review of whether this denomination is in decline or in fact doing well.

The source you mention called for the SDA to engage in the kind of reforms @icedragon101 is advocating.

Depends on "whose counting" and what criteria they use for "what is a denomination".

It is super easy to say the SDA denomination is a real denomination with a single point of administration managing financial policy, one agreed upon set of doctrines and representing the face of the entire denomination.

If we review all other "Denominations" using that criteria when determining the size of any given denomination - then the numbers and ranking of 5th vs 22nd will be affected.

See my reply:
SDA Basic Belief 27: God Will Give the Earth to Satan’s Angels

Suffice it to say, the SDA is neither the 5th nor the 22nd largest; depending on whose counting, it is between the 10th, 11th and 12th largest (the key variable being that Baptists, specifically the SBC, do not report children in membership statistics, and so the SBC could be larger, if they have enough children, and if we count them).

 

[BobRyan]

Suffice it to say, the SDA is neither the 5th nor the 22nd largest; depending on whose counting, it is between the 10th, 11th and 12th largest

Ok so you have your opinion and ChristianityToday has theirs... I am fine with those two different ways of categorizing them. The Jan 2015 article report in the OP is a matter of public record. I am ok with that.

(the key variable being that Baptists, specifically the SBC, do not report children in membership statistics, and so the SBC could be larger, if they have enough children, and if we count them).

Baptists count baptized children as do Adventists and neither group baptizes infants.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
The OP is motivate by some hand-wringing posts made recently on this area of the forum to the effect of supposing that the SDA denomination is doing sooo very poorly that it would need to do some drastic doctrinal changing if it wants to survive.

What I point out is that well-known independent non-SDA sources are on record as not having that sort of sky-is-falling review of whether this denomination is in decline or in fact doing well

so the OP is agenda-driven to show the greatest of the SDA? .

There is no "greatest of the SDA" in the OP -- all there is - is statistical facts that debunk the hand-wringing idea that the Adventist denomination is somehow in decline and needs a drastic change in doctrine to survive.

Admittedly anything that "looks like good news" about Adventists will cut across some "preferences" of non-SDAs. And of course you have free will and can prefer whatever negative views you wish to hold.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑

2. Accepting both the literal and symbolic elements in the Bible

• Literal Creation week, Literal pre-mill appearing of Christ, literal rapture taking the saints to heaven as per John 14:1-3, 1 Thess 4:13-18
• Literal lake of fire event in Rev 20
• Literal bodily resurrection of Christ

Can you elaborate what parts are seen as symbolic?

The Bible is loaded with symbolism for example in the book of judges "the trees go out to elect a king" Judges 9:8 is a parable that is told using trees as symbols for people.

In Isaiah 5:4 a vineyard is used as a symbol to represent Israel in a warning message given to them.
ends like this --

4 “What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it?
Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?

Dan and Rev include a number of symbols and so also the parables of Christ as some "examples"

 

[BobRyan]

I don't doubt that the SDA denomination is growing while many other denominations are slipping. HOWEVER, it's the fifth largest denomination in the world ONLY because it is organized as a unified, worldwide entity.

Most denominations are legally constituted separately from nation to nation....

There are, for example, more Baptists in the USA than there are Seventh-day Adventists in the entire world.

Baptists are not one single denomination in fact various baptist denominations inside the U.S. will not even hold open communion with Southern Baptists inside the U.S. ... far from being one single denomination in that example.

 

[BobRyan]

Nurture, retention, reclamation: Can you hear their cry?

The Seventh-day Adventist Church is losing members at an alarming rate. Even though the evangelism in our churches is winning people, we lose about 49 of every 100 baptized. This hemorrhaging of our members cannot continue. It is expected to get worse, especially in countries where soul winning is difficult; and if it continues, entire conferences maybe closed for lack of members.

General Conference Secretary G. T. Ng, in addressing this issue, made a serious statement: “This 49 percent apostasy rate is alarming and is a serious drain on the human and financial resources of the church.”

Net growth "is funny that way". Turns out all denominations on planet earth gain new members every year and lose some members every year. But I like that this news is on your radar. so nice going.

 

[BobRyan]

I don’t see what’s wrong with being the 10th or 11th largest church; .

Neither do I, especially given Adventists were at about 50 in Oct of 1844 at one point - but ChristianityToday published a slightly different status as of Jan 2015 given that the Adventist denomination is a single world wide entity, with a single set of doctrines and managed by a single world-wide admin group.

 

[BobRyan]

As we move ever deeper into the End Times, I really don't think "keeping score" tells us anything.

This is not about "keeping score" it is about the complaint raised recently that the Seventh-day Adventist denomination is falling down and would need to change its doctrine to survive - RATHER then the real truth that it is growing and doing ok.