If we are all sinners (and we are), how can we get into Heaven where there is "no impure thing"?

[CoreyD]

I'm kind of amused w/ this

It just seems funny (odd) that I started this thread and now, here we are talking about Mormons! I am a devout Roman Catholic who has studied my faith rather in-depth.

Jesus said that Few find the Narrow Way to Heaven

The narrow road to life, my potential brother in the faith.

Yet it is amazing that we have all these once-saved-always-saved folks, apparently, going on and on about how humans cannotsave themselves. Well, Who does not know that?

Jesus died on a cross, paying the penalty for our sins. But how does that translate into: you don't have to DO anything? no good works... no working out your salvation w/ fear and trembling... (Phil 2:12)... nope, Jesus did everything. All I have to do is accept it

Where is that in the Bible? It isn't!

Good point.

(not that Catholics are sola scriptura...)

it scares me to think of all the false religions there are in the world, many of which claim to be Christian, but they teach grave error. JESUS SAID FEW MAKE it

so that tosses out the once saved always saved nonsense right there

You seem to be a reasonable person. Logic is important to you.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I'm checking up what you say, from secular sources, and I can see how what you are saying would be true.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, informally known as the LDS Church or Mormon Church, is a restorationist, nontrinitarian Christian denomination that is the largest denomination in the Latter Day Saint movement.​

​

Joseph Smith formally organized the church as the Church of Christ, on April 6, 1830, in western New York; the church's name was later changed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. : 627 n. 73  Initial converts were drawn to the church in part because of the newly published Book of Mormon, a self-described chronicle of indigenous American prophets that Smith said he had translated from golden plates.​

Mormons - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The terminology preferred by the church itself has varied over time. At various points, the church has embraced the term Mormon and stated that other sects within the shared faith tradition should not be called Mormon.[8]​

​

The word Mormon was initially coined to describe any person who believes in the Book of Mormon as a scripture volume. Mormonite and Mormon were originally descriptive terms used both by outsiders to the faith, church members, and occasionally church leaders.[9][better source needed] The term Mormon later was sometimes used derogatorily; such use may have developed during the 1838 Mormon War,[10] although church members and leaders "embraced the term", according to church historian Matthew Bowman, and by the end of the 1800s it was broadly used.[11]​

I think what is happening here, is that persons might not have thoroughly research this, and may be speaking with limited knowledge.
Also, there may be a need to try to understand.

From what is stated here:

After Smith's death in 1844, the movement split into several groups following different leaders; the majority followed Brigham Young, while smaller groups followed Joseph Smith III, Sidney Rigdon, and James Strang. Most of these smaller groups eventually merged into the Community of Christ, and the term Mormon typically refers to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), as today, this branch is far larger than all the others combined. People who identify as Mormons may also be independently religious, secular, and non-practicing or belong to other denominations. Since 2018, the LDS Church has emphasized a desire for its members be referred to as "members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", or more simply as "Latter-day Saints".[3]​

What I understand from this, is, while some sects, or members of Latter Day Saints, or breakaways may have accepted the term Mormon, it was not recognized by the main group, or it's leaders.
I can understand that, because individuals of a group might not have a clear understanding of the religion they belong to, and use terms in a way that is not acceptable to the leaders.

Worst yet, when you have splinter sects, going their own way, it's easy to see how the misunderstanding can expand, where the terminology is used loosely, and viewed as, or even accepted.

I hope I am at least close to understanding.
I accept any correction, from those on the inside, who know better than I do, and better than the secular world that sometimes do not fully grasp what they are considering.
Thanks again.


I can understand how you are feeling at this time.
I experienced something similar, and I know the feeling.
Most people are not reasonable though, so I think, we should expect and try to get used to that.
The Bible did prophecy that in the last days men would be "without natural affection, implacable, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, not lovers of those who are good". 2 timothy 3:3

I think at the start the term "Mormon" was not considered to be so bad - it made sense because of the Book of Mormon - and it got the word out.

Yet years later - when the early Saints were looking for guidance on how to build the Lord's House (Temple) the Prophet Joseph Smith Jr claimed to have received revelation from the Lord where He named the Church Himself - the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Only a few years later the Prophet was killed and those smaller sects were formed.

Even though "Mormon' was the term that all these sects were best known by - it was never used by the Lord in any of the recorded revelations to refer to either the Church or its members.

The Lord always referred to it either as "my church" or "my church in these latter-days" and members were referred to either by their individual names or "saints", "servants", "friends" etc.

If you ever have any questions about Latter-day Saint doctrine or history. I am available.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I'm kind of amused w/ this

It just seems funny (odd) that I started this thread and now, here we are talking about Mormons! I am a devout Roman Catholic who has studied my faith rather in-depth.

Jesus said that Few find the Narrow Way to Heaven

Yet it is amazing that we have all these once-saved-always-saved folks, apparently, going on and on about how humans cannotsave themselves. Well, Who does not know that?

Jesus died on a cross, paying the penalty for our sins. But how does that translate into: you don't have to DO anything? no good works... no working out your salvation w/ fear and trembling... (Phil 2:12)... nope, Jesus did everything. All I have to do is accept it

Where is that in the Bible? It isn't!

(not that Catholics are sola scriptura...)

it scares me to think of all the false religions there are in the world, many of which claim to be Christian, but they teach grave error. JESUS SAID FEW MAKE it

so that tosses out the once saved always saved nonsense right there

If you ever have any questions about Latter-day Saint doctrine or history. I am available. We agree on more than we disagree.

 

[Miles]

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
- Proverbs 9:10

The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love.
He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever;
he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities.
For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him;
as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
As a father has compassion on his children, so the LORD has compassion on those who fear him;
- Psalm 103:8-13

“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” - Jesus
- Luke 6:37-38

“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." - Jesus
- Matthew 6:19-21

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” - Jesus
- Matthew 11:28-30

 

[Estrid]

Maybe not completely, since your heart is not mine, but yes, I do. I too feel for them sometimes, and have an idea what you are referring too.
I prefer not to spell it out at this moment though, so I hope you won't ask.

On second thought...
@Estrid does it have anything to do with how they are all one body in Christ, and yet they argue about every "blessed" thing in the Bible, and each have their own interpretation which is right, and the others are clearly wrong... Yet they are one body - Christians?

Nope. That's not it. At all.

Of course " they" dont all bicker, nor do i feel sorry for,all.
It's a very wide range of feelings.

I feel sorry for varrious Christians, for a wide variety of reasons.

Those who sacrifice the rewards of this life for one that isn't coming.

People who think they must believe clear falsehoods or
face torture. Who make intellectual dishonesty a virtue in their minds.

Those who live in fear that they won't make it to heaven.


The list is long









l

 

[Estrid]

May I ask why?? I probably do too.. if I am thinking what you are

See above

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope. That's not it. At all.

Of course " they" dont all bicker, nor do i feel sorry for,all.
It's a very wide range of feelings.

I feel sorry for varrious Christians, for a wide variety of reasons.

Those who sacrifice the rewards of this life for one that isn't coming.

People who think they must believe clear falsehoods or
face torture. Who make intellectual dishonesty a virtue in their minds.

Those who live in fear that they won't make it to heaven.


The list is long









l

That last line is the worse one.. Way to many Christians live in fear of this, or worse yet, deny they live in fear of this.. yet preach it

Sadly how many fail to find the peace of God that surpasses all understanding? Satan wants to take that from us.

 

[Estrid]

That last line is the worse one.. Way to many Christians live in fear of this, or worse yet, deny they live in fear of this.. yet preach it

Sadly how many find the peace of God that surpasses all understanding? Satan wants to take that from us.

I'd add you to my list of those for whom I feel
sorry.
Being constantly beset by a supernatural being
of pure evil, vastly more clever than i, a consumate
master of deception.

It's very sad to live that way.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'd add you to my list of those for whom I feel
sorry.
Being constantly beset by a supernatural being
of pure evil, vastly more clever than i, a consumate
master of deception.

It's very sad to live that way.

why do you feel sorry for me?

Why do you think My God is evil?

 

[Zaha Torte]

why do you feel sorry for me?

Why do you think My God is evil?

Please don't feed the trolls.

 

[CoreyD]

If you ever have any questions about Latter-day Saint doctrine or history. I am available.

Okay. Thanks.

Nope. That's not it. At all.

Of course " they" dont all bicker, nor do i feel sorry for,all.
It's a very wide range of feelings.

I feel sorry for varrious Christians, for a wide variety of reasons.

Those who sacrifice the rewards of this life for one that isn't coming.

People who think they must believe clear falsehoods or
face torture. Who make intellectual dishonesty a virtue in their minds.

Those who live in fear that they won't make it to heaven.


The list is long

You have quite a lot of strong feeling, and I am sure you believe strongly that you are right about all of them.
Thanks for sharing.

Perhaps taking time to talk about these reasonably, might be worth your while... on another thread of course.
Take care of yourself.

Can I ask just one question, since we are here.
Why do you spend time engaging Christians if you feel they are living on a "pipe dream"? Is it that you hope to learn something from them, or you like hearing them talk about things you don't consider real?

 

[Estrid]

Okay. Thanks.


You have quite a lot of strong feeling, and I am sure you believe strongly that you are right about all of them.
Thanks for sharing.

Perhaps taking time to talk about these reasonably, might be worth your while... on another thread of course.
Take care of yourself.

Can I ask just one question, since we are here.
Why do you spend time engaging Christians if you feel they are living on a "pipe dream"? Is it that you hope to learn something from them, or you like hearing them talk about things you don't consider real?

There's nothing to respond to when you
just make things up.

 

[Estrid]

why do you feel sorry for me?

Why do you think My God is evil?

You described " satan ". That is rather
obviously what i referred to.

And as I don't believe your god is real
I cannot very well think it's evil.

 

[CoreyD]

There's nothing to respond to when you
just make things up.

Okay. I did not realize I was making things up. My apologies.

 

[Miles]

Okay. I did not realize I was making things up. My apologies.

A lot can be explained by projection and malignant "othering".

 

[Estrid]

A lot can be explained by projection and malignant "othering".

It's kinda serious when a person loses
touch, and does even know they're
just saying things.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You described " satan ". That is rather
obviously what i referred to.

And as I don't believe your god is real
I cannot very well think it's evil.

well thats too bad.

Satan is evil. God is a God of love. so much is my God a God of love he came to earth to die for his creation..

if thats evil in your eyes. then I do not know how to help you

 

[Estrid]

well thats too bad.

Satan is evil. God is a God of love. so much is my God a God of love he came to earth to die for his creation..

if thats evil in your eyes. then I do not know how to help you

If you just keep making things up I doubt
anyone can help you.

Please stop addressing me since it's clear you
are going to keep making up weird things to
say about me.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If you just keep making things up I doubt
anyone can help you.

well if I just made it up. You may be correct. But I did not just make it up

Please stop addressing me since it's clear you
are going to keep making up weird things to
say about me.

ah Your one of those. you either agree with you, or leave you alone

I did not make anything up period..

 

[Zaha Torte]

well if I just made it up. You may be correct. But I did not just make it up

ah Your one of those. you either agree with you, or leave you alone

I did not make anything up period..

She did the same to me. It's sad.