How does Mary protect us?

[FenderTL5]

Mary is respected as the biological mother of Jesus, and that is all.

That is contrary to Holy Scripture and was refuted by none other than Christ Himself.
This issue was raised, in scripture, and Jesus replied "More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it! (KJV)”
There's reason that "all generations call her blessed."



Καλά Χριστούγεννα!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It's because they do not, that I asked.

That's where I read about Constantine. He had one foot in both the Christian and pagan world, and it is assumed that he actually converted to Christianity on his deathbed. He was the one who closed the pagan temples, and converted them for Christian use, and introduced his favourite pagan rituals into the Christian services. The seeds of the particular character of the RCC were planted then. It was for this reason among others that the Eastern Orthodox Church split from the Latin Church.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hope you had a blessed Nativity this morning. I'm currently on the other side of the pond so we have a few more hours before we celebrate Christ's birth.

Καλά Χριστούγεννα!

We had a quiet one with our daughter and partner. We relocated from Auckland to Christchurch in December to be closer to them in our declining years, and our new purchased home is still in chaos with most stuff still unpacked. But it was the first time we had Christmas dinner cooked for us by our daughter!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That is contrary to Holy Scripture and was refuted by none other than Christ Himself.
This issue was raised, in scripture, and Jesus replied "More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it! (KJV)”
There's reason that "all generations call her blessed."



Καλά Χριστούγεννα!

Yes. I will qualify my remark. She has a very special place in the Christian world in that she was chosen to be the human mother of Jesus. So, I agree that there is a special blessing on her, and that Christians should hold her in their highest respect.

But this does not make her divine and one to be worshiped as a goddess. Because she is human, she is in Paradise with all the other dead in Christ, awaiting for the Rapture when her body, among all the others, will be resurrected to meet the Lord in the air. She is not in heaven acting as any sort of advocate to convey our prayers to God. Jesus is the only one who is acting as our Advocate, representing us before the Father.

 

[anna ~ grace]

That's where I read about Constantine. He had one foot in both the Christian and pagan world, and it is assumed that he actually converted to Christianity on his deathbed. He was the one who closed the pagan temples, and converted them for Christian use, and introduced his favourite pagan rituals into the Christian services. The seeds of the particular character of the RCC were planted then. It was for this reason among others that the Eastern Orthodox Church split from the Latin Church.

Marian veneration pre-dates Nicea, Oscarr.

The earliest recorded prayer to Mary dates to the late 200's.

The Eastern Orthodox also venerate Mary, ask for her help and prayers, petition her, and love her as a Mother. As do the Oriental Orthodox and the Assyrian Church of the East, who venerate her as the Mother of Christ, and who love her, too.

https://bethkokheh.assyrianchurch.o...ry-in-the-Writings-of-East-Syriac-Fathers.pdf

Even some Protestant Christians have a devotion to Our Lady.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Marian veneration pre-dates Nicea, Oscarr.

The earliest recorded prayer to Mary dates to the late 200's.

The Eastern Orthodox also venerate Mary, ask for her help and prayers, petition her, and love her as a Mother. As do the Oriental Orthodox and the Assyrian Church of the East, who venerate her as the Mother of Christ, and who love her, too.

https://bethkokheh.assyrianchurch.o...ry-in-the-Writings-of-East-Syriac-Fathers.pdf

Even some Protestant Christians have a devotion to Our Lady.

But Mary is dead and in the grave just the same as every other human believer who has died in Christ. We can't worship and pray to a dead person. At present, we respect her memory. The "Mary", whom some worship and pray to, is a figment of their imagination, and not the real Mary whose body is still in the grave.

 

[Lost4words]

Yes. I will qualify my remark. She has a very special place in the Christian world in that she was chosen to be the human mother of Jesus. So, I agree that there is a special blessing on her, and that Christians should hold her in their highest respect.

But this does not make her divine and one to be worshiped as a goddess. Because she is human, she is in Paradise with all the other dead in Christ, awaiting for the Rapture when her body, among all the others, will be resurrected to meet the Lord in the air. She is not in heaven acting as any sort of advocate to convey our prayers to God. Jesus is the only one who is acting as our Advocate, representing us before the Father.

Catholics dont worship Mary.

 

[anna ~ grace]

But Mary is dead and in the grave just the same as every other human believer who has died in Christ. We can't worship and pray to a dead person. At present, we respect her memory. The "Mary", whom some worship and pray to, is a figment of their imagination, and not the real Mary whose body is still in the grave.

Actually, millions of Christians do petition her, as she is alive with Christ, in Christ, and because of Christ, in Heaven.

She's the Mother of Christians, too. All Christians. God bless you, Oscarr, and Merry Christmas.

 

[Lost4words]

But Mary is dead and in the grave just the same as every other human believer who has died in Christ. We can't worship and pray to a dead person. At present, we respect her memory. The "Mary", whom some worship and pray to, is a figment of their imagination, and not the real Mary whose body is still in the grave.

Mary is NOT worshipped. Only by non Catholics like yourself who bring this up at every opportunity where Mary is discussed.

 

[Not David]

Catholics dont worship Mary.

Officially they don't.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Catholics dont worship Mary.

I recently attended a full Requiem Mass in a Catholic church, and prayers were definitely directed to Mary, and was the object of worship, along with Jesus Christ.

 

[Lost4words]

Mary is 'The' most Holy Tabernacle. Entrusted by God for the womb to be born from.

Can you see God placing His Son in a sinful body? Mary is most Immaculate.

She interceded at Cana too. She intercedes for all of us, Her children as Jesus gave Her to us and us to Her, at the foot of the cross.

 

[Lost4words]

Officially they don't.

Only non Catholics think that

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Actually, millions of Christians do petition her, as she is alive with Christ, in Christ, and because of Christ, in Heaven.

She's the Mother of Christians, too. All Christians. God bless you, Oscarr, and Merry Christmas.

The question is, while Mary was one of the 120 in the upper room who received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, why didn't the Apostles start worshiping her then? And how come Paul never mentions praying to Mary in any of his letters to the churches?

 

[Lost4words]

I recently attended a full Requiem Mass in a Catholic church, and prayers were definitely directed to Mary, and was the object of worship, along with Jesus Christ.

Then you definitely misunderstood the mass. I guess that is understandable as you are not a Catholic.

Prayers directed at Mary is no problem for Catholics etc as we believe She can intercede for us to Jesus, just like at Cana.

 

[Lost4words]

The question is, while Mary was one of the 120 in the upper room who received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, why didn't the Apostles start worshiping her then? And how come Paul never mentions praying to Mary in any of his letters to the churches?

Nobody worships Mary. Its an untruth by non Catholics.

 

[anna ~ grace]

I recently attended a full Requiem Mass in a Catholic church, and prayers were definitely directed to Mary, and was the object of worship, along with Jesus Christ.

She is definitely petitioned, and we definitely seek her prayers, and help, intercession, and assistance as we follow Christ.

She is also definitely praised and honored in hymns, litanies, prayers, and sacred art work.

Linguistically, though, in a distinction clear in Greek and Latin yet less clear in English, worship is that which can only be offered to a deity, whereas veneration is offered to especially holy men and women who are in Heaven already, of whom Mary is key.

No Catholic or Orthodox Christian believes that Mary is a deity. Or that she is the creator. Just that she is a uniquely blessed and honorable woman, through whom God gave us the gift of Himself, in flesh.

 

[Lost4words]

The question is, while Mary was one of the 120 in the upper room who received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, why didn't the Apostles start worshiping her then? And how come Paul never mentions praying to Mary in any of his letters to the churches?

You may, like many Christians, bow down while reading your bible. Are you then worshipping it?

As you kneel by your bed to say your prayers, are you worshipping your bed?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Mary is 'The' most Holy Tabernacle. Entrusted by God for the womb to be born from.

Can you see God placing His Son in a sinful body? Mary is most Immaculate.

She interceded at Cana too. She intercedes for all of us, Her children as Jesus gave Her to us and us to Her, at the foot of the cross.

So Jesus didn't have to die for her on the cross in the same way as He did for all other sinners? If Mary was immaculate and sinless as you are saying, why wasn't it her who had to die on the cross and take the penalty of sin on herself? When Paul said "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God", that would have included Mary herself. He never said, "all, except Mary the mother of Jesus, have sinned and come short of the glory of God". Mary had to receive Jesus as her Saviour and Lord just like all the others.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Then you definitely misunderstood the mass. I guess that is understandable as you are not a Catholic.

Prayers directed at Mary is no problem for Catholics etc as we believe She can intercede for us to Jesus, just like at Cana.

How can believers direct prayers to a dead person whose body has decayed in the grave?