Pro-Palestinian supporters at Columbia University confront Jews ‘to push them out of camp’

rambot

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there are and what these antisemitic racist are chanting is hate speech by definition - want me to give you the definition again?
Pommer clarified it with useful and pertinent information, so you're good. Thanks.
These Antisemitic racist are supporting a group, who have the elimination of the Jews in their charter - teach killing Jews is an honorable thing to their children - have Jewish students trapped in buildings. Everything is the Jews fault.
Wow! Sounds intense. And look at how factual, precise and detailed these accusations are when talking about multiple groups at the same time...
"antisemitic racists" "a group" "in their charter"


I mean it sounds like the way you blame everything in the conflict on Palestinians and Gazans. EVERYTHING is their fault.

Sounds like the days and weeks right before Kristallnacht.
America has had plenty of times when it sounded like "the days and weeks before Kristallnacht".
 
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essentialsaltes

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essentialsaltes

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As a sidebar, looking through the pictures of the encampments, I find it an intriguing irony (whether on the part of the protest planners or the police) that the propalestinians protesters are ALSO Being held behind fences and their movement is being restricted.
The way I heard it, the irony is that pro-Israel partisans want illegal settlements destroyed.
 
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essentialsaltes

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You supported the KKK also then?
I also support Marjorie Taylor Greene's decision to vote against the Antisemitism Awareness Act of 2023, and support her right to say:

“Antisemitism is wrong, but I will not be voting for the Antisemitism Awareness Act of 2023 (H.R. 6090) today that could convict Christians of antisemitism for believing the Gospel that says Jesus was handed over to Herod to be crucified by the Jews,” Greene wrote.

Greene’s comment was accompanied by a photo of the bill text, which said it would use the “definition of antisemitism” adopted by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance in 2016. The text noted this includes “claims of Jews killing Jesus,” which it described as “classic antisemitism.”
 
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civilwarbuff

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None of what you are saying reflects "love your enemy".
Tell us here what you believe 'love your enemy' means.
Who was the Messiah who returned the land of Israel to the Jews: Was it the UN? Is the UN the second coming of christ?
Well, at least you now admit that the land has always belonged to Israel; that's a start.
Nah, the UN is more like the first coming of the anti-christ.
I know. I felt it such a basic tenet that I didn't bother including the book, chapter or verse. Such a very basic tenet of Christianity; such a frequently quoted text; such a lofty, holy and high expectation; such a building block of Christ's love in us, that it wasn't needed.
I just like to make sure that people don't twist words around. Quoting chapter, verse and translation prevents that.....
 
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rambot

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Well, at least you now admit that the land has always belonged to Israel; that's a start.
they had it. Then they lost it. That's why I used the word "returned". You should not have missed it; it was the main verb in the sentence (not the linking verb).

Did you want to try again?

Nah, the UN is more like the first coming of the anti-christ.
.....
The prophesy is that Israel would be returned by their Messiah. We all know the UN did returned Israel. You just agreed to that.

So perhaps this is NOT A fulfilled prophesy or perhaps the UN I'd the Messiah.


And I wonder which option you'd choose.
 
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Slibhin

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they had it. Then they lost it. That's why I used the word "returned". You should not have missed it; it was the main verb in the sentence (not the linking verb).

Did you want to try again?


The prophesy is that Israel would be returned by their Messiah. We all know the UN did returned Israel. You just agreed to that.

So perhaps this is NOT A fulfilled prophesy or perhaps the UN I'd the Messiah.


And I wonder which option you'd choose.
Israel proper can only be restored by G-d's divine providence, which he will do when the Messiah arrives. Israel today is merely the creation of men.
 
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civilwarbuff

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they had it. Then they lost it. That's why I used the word "returned". You should not have missed it; it was the main verb in the sentence (not the linking verb).

Did you want to try again?
You can't 'return' something to someone who never owned it. Just just because someone stole something from a people does not mean it is still not theirs. So, your acknowledgement of Israel's historical ownership of their land is noted. Thank you.
 
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rambot

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You can't 'return' something to someone who never owned it. Just just because someone stole something from a people does not mean it is still not theirs. So, your acknowledgement of Israel's historical ownership of their land is noted. Thank you.
[my emphasis] Your acknowledgement that Native Americans should be receiving all your tax money and all you white folks should just sod off, is also understood.

Very brave position.
 
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rambot

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Thoughts on MTG's thought process folks?

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essentialsaltes

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Thoughts on MTG's thought process folks?

It's complex. (Not MTG's thought process, obviously, but my own thoughts.)

Saying that "the Jews" handed over Jesus is indeed antisemitic.
Saying that "Caiaphas and some other important Jews were instrumental in forcing the Romans to act, according to the Bible" would not be.

That said, the law is, at best, empty pandering.

And some of the details of the pre-existing law are kind of infuriating when you think about them.

(IANAL)

From the bill:

1) title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (42 U.S.C. 2000d et seq.), prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, and national origin in programs and activities receiving Federal financial assistance;

Notice anything missing in that list? That's right.

(2) while such title does not cover discrimination based solely on religion, individuals who face discrimination based on actual or perceived shared ancestry or ethnic characteristics do not lose protection under such title for also being members of a group that share a common religion;

Why doesn't it cover religion? Primarily because Congress was worried that Bob Jones University and Liberty University et al. couldn't suck off the public teat if they forced faculty to sign doctrinal statements that would be discriminatory. Bob Jones U sued to be awarded GI Bill veteran's benefits for a veteran student, but lost because they discriminated against black people at the time. But discriminating on the basis of religion is perfectly legal.

So it was and still is legal (at least under title VI) for institutions to say "No people of the Jewish faith need apply" and take federal money, as some religious institutions no doubt do, at least in terms of faculty hiring, maybe also student body, I dunno.

But it was and still is illegal to refuse Abraham Sapirstein, an adult convert to Christianity, a job because he is of Jewish ancestry.

At best this new law draws attention to this latter detail, without actually changing any circumstances.

If they really wanted to curb public funding of discrimination, they could add religion to the list of protected class in Title VI.

It still wouldn't affect hate speech, since the First Amendment is what it is, but it could stop the flow of public money to institutions that discriminate on the basis of religion.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Thoughts on MTG's thought process folks?
Here's the full article, no paywall: Bill to Combat Antisemitism on Campuses Prompts Backlash From the Right

I think Greene's specific objections are incorrect, and she's not the best person to say what is or isn't antisemitic (given her "Jewish space laser" comments), but I do think that this bill is only gaining traction as a reactionary response to the protests, and reactionary laws rushed through to make a statement are rarely well-thought-out. There are a few important considerations that I think Congress is ignoring here:

1. Writing a law that explicitly adopts a 3rd party's definition of something as a legal definition is always a bit shaky. It's one thing to write your own definition that's heavily based on an existing one, or even just to copy a definition wholesale, but to have the law be "we will use x organization's definition of this term" leaves the law very open-ended. Most obviously, that organization's definition can change - IHRA even labels it a "working definition". What happens if the definition changes in such a way that it no longer reflects the intent of the lawmakers? Additionally, because the lawmakers did not write the definition that they are using, it must be considered that the definition being adopted is actually the lawmakers' interpretation of a definition that's been written by someone else. That may or may not line up with the intent of the actual writers.

2. Tying into that, as stated by one of the original writers of the IHRA working definition of antisemitism, it was never intended to be the foundation of any sort of legal statute or as a way to control speech. The problem with quieting speech is that it allows those who are affect to cry persecution - especially in a country that prides itself on freedom of speech like the US.

3. The IHRA definition includes sections that cover criticism of Israel. While they do state that "criticism that could reasonably be levied against other countries cannot be considered antisemitism", that's a nebulous enough statement that it could have a chilling effect on speech - for instance, they say that comparisons of Israel's government to Nazis (i.e. in their treatment of Palestinians) is antisemitic, but similar comparisons can and have been reasonably made towards other governments in their treatment of minority groups.

Similar bills have been attempted a few times over the past decade or so, and they've all failed - primarily due to freedom of speech concerns.
 
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civilwarbuff

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[my emphasis] Your acknowledgement that Native Americans should be receiving all your tax money and all you white folks should just sod off, is also understood.

Very brave position.
And you will never hear me argue that Indian land was not taken unjustly/stolen from them in many cases. But any time you want to return your property to them and practice what you preach.......be my guest. I won't stand in your way.
BTW, any time you would like to discuss why Indians were treated so harshly by (primarily British) colonists let me know; I got plenty of reference material on that. Some of the material I have is so grossly disgusting it would have to be in a PM instead of a thread.
 
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civilwarbuff

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View attachment 347096


So long as they don't look the same, that's all "it" needs.

But yes....it's ONLY the Jewish students that are suffering.
Comparing the hatred from democrats towards blacks attending white schools is being compared to people (many/most(?) who are not of middle-eastern descent) being able to shut down universities through their protests and taking over buildings? Sorry but it doesn't compute.
 
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rambot

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Comparing the hatred from democrats towards blacks attending white schools is being compared to people (many/most(?) who are not of middle-eastern descent) being able to shut down universities through their protests and taking over buildings? Sorry but it doesn't compute.
It's so sad you need to say "from democrats" and not "from racists".

It just goes to show you how much more important a man's label is than his character.
 
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rambot

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And you will never hear me argue that Indian land was not taken unjustly/stolen from them in many cases. But any time you want to return your property to them and practice what you preach.......be my guest. I won't stand in your way.
BTW, any time you would like to discuss why Indians were treated so harshly by (primarily British) colonists let me know; I got plenty of reference material on that. Some of the material I have is so grossly disgusting it would have to be in a PM instead of a thread.
Canada is a huge place. There's no reason for me to cede my house. But I would be MORE Than happy to cede land to them....a LOT of land....a lot of GOOD land.
 
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Hazelelponi

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As in, so you want to end their ability to have Free Speech

Free speech is wonderful. What's happening isn't free speech.

What's happening is that a minority are trying to hold campuses hostage.

They are depriving others of their right to a normal campus environment in which finals can be studied for and taken - that's called disturbing the peace and there's not a city in America where that's not an actual crime listed under the criminal code.

While campuses are bastions of free speech, the intent behind that is to learn, not to disrupt, riot, vandalize, camp out, have catering, and scream dumb slogans taught by designated terrorist organizations over loud speakers all hours.


^^^ free speech

Just thought a reminder was in order as to what it looks like to engage in free speech and debate on a college campus. Used to be a net positive, or at least I thought so.

We have lost any sense of western society now. And I really liked it very much. I think it's time to explore the joys of being a hermit.
 
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