Why Everyone Needs An AR-15

[FireDragon76]

You've presented misinformation.

1.) The US abstained from signing that part of the agreement.
2.) There are many non expanding rounds, that are not FMJ.

It's not misinformation.

Just because the US didn't sign the treaty doesn't mean it wasn't observed. It's only recently that the US Department of Defense has updated its regulations concerning international law, and no longer recognizes hollow point bullets as prohibited.

 

[HARK!]

The military uses FMJ because it's against the Geneva Conventions to use hollow-point, expanding, or dum-dum rounds in war. It is an agreed war crime by almost all nations.

You've presented even more misinformation.

For decades the U.S. military has used full metal jacket (FMJ) rounds for their pistols, but are finally switching to jacketed hollowpoints (JHP).

U.S. Military Moves From Full Metal Jacket To Hollowpoint Rounds

For decades the U.S. military has used full metal jacket (FMJ) rounds for their pistols, but are finally switching to jacketed hollowpoints (JHP).

www.gunsamerica.com

 

[HARK!]

This is true; however, the AR-15 was initially designed for the military. The M-16 is based on the AR-15 design. The AR-15 was designed to kill enemy combatants in the most efficient way possible. There's no reason for weapons like the AR-15 or those similar to it to be in the hands of civilians.

Do you understand the purpose of the 2nd Amendment?

 

[FireDragon76]

You've presented even more misinformation.

You should really stop being so uncharitable in your estimation of my motivations.

For decades the U.S. military has used full metal jacket (FMJ) rounds for their pistols, but are finally switching to jacketed hollowpoints (JHP).

U.S. Military Moves From Full Metal Jacket To Hollowpoint Rounds

For decades the U.S. military has used full metal jacket (FMJ) rounds for their pistols, but are finally switching to jacketed hollowpoints (JHP).

www.gunsamerica.com

Did I say anything to contradict that?

The legal experts in the US Department of Defense no longer consider hollow point bullets to be superfluously cruel. However, that doesn't change the reason that the DoD for years didn't authorize the use of hollow point bullets.

 

[HARK!]

Why would a follower of the Prince of Peace need an AR-15?

For the same reason that he told his followers to buy swords.

 

[FireDragon76]

For the same reason that he told his followers to buy swords.

Jesus wasn't literally telling his disciples to buy swords.

 

[HARK!]

You should really stop being so uncharitable in your estimation of my motivations.

Your inferences are not necessarily my implications. Misinformation is misinformation, regardless of motive.

The legal experts in the US Department of Defense no longer consider hollow point bullets to be superfluously cruel. However, that doesn't change the reason that the DoD for years didn't authorize the use of hollow point bullets.

What does that have to do with the Hague or Geneva or the fact that lead round nose bullets are not jacketed?

 

[HARK!]

Jesus wasn't literally telling his disciples to buy swords.

Nonsense. They showed him the swords; and he said that they would do.

 

[JosephZ]

You've presented misinformation.

1.) The US abstained from signing that part of the agreement.

The US chose to use FMJ ammunition because of military alliances with nations that are signatories to the Hague Convention.

 

[JosephZ]

For the same reason that he told his followers to buy swords.

Nonsense. They showed him the swords; and he said that they would do.

The purpose of the sword found in Luke 22:36 was to fullfill prophesy.

And He said to them, “When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.” And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me: ‘And He was counted with transgressors’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.” (Luke 22:35-38)

The events that took place at the Garden of Gethsemane were necessary so all prophecies concerning Him be fulfilled.

“For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘And He was numbered with transgressors (Isaiah 53:12)’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” (Luke 22:37)

This is why Jesus replied with "That's enough," when his disciples said, “Lord, look here are two swords." (Luke 22:38) Two swords were more than enough needed for that moment in the garden when Peter would draw his sword on one of the men who came to arrest Jesus. Jesus allowed Peter to do this in order to fulfill the prophecy that He would be "numbered with transgressors."

So when Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?” (John 18:11) It was at this point the prophecy found in Isaiah, "He was numbered with transgressors", had been fulfilled.

 

[HARK!]

Does "everyone" include gang bangers, the cartels, and the right-wing racist groupies? Does everyone really mean everyone or all white males no matter their agenda? Should we include Al_Quida with "everyone?" or just your political allies?

The gang bangers, the cartels and "Al_Quida" are already well armed. Should we just exclude Right Wing white males?

 

[HARK!]

The US chose to use FMJ ammunition because of military alliances with nations that are signatories to the Hague Convention.

Not according to the firearms, and military, historians, that I've spoken to. Do you have any credible proof of this, to back that assertion?

 

[HARK!]

The purpose of the sword found in Luke 22:36 was to fullfill prophesy.

And He said to them, “When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.” And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me: ‘And He was counted with transgressors’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.” (Luke 22:35-38)

The events that took place at the Garden of Gethsemane were necessary so all prophecies concerning Him be fulfilled.

“For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘And He was numbered with transgressors (Isaiah 53:12)’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” (Luke 22:37)

This is why Jesus replied with "That's enough," when his disciples said, “Lord, look here are two swords." (Luke 22:38) Two swords were more than enough needed for that moment in the garden when Peter would draw his sword on one of the men who came to arrest Jesus. Jesus allowed Peter to do this in order to fulfill the prophecy that He would be "numbered with transgressors."

So when Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?” (John 18:11) It was at this point the prophecy found in Isaiah, "He was numbered with transgressors", had been fulfilled.

That's quite a leap. So you're saying that Yahshua was executed, because his followers were carrying swords?

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

 

[HARK!]

This is true; however, the AR-15 was initially designed for the military. The M-16 is based on the AR-15 design. The AR-15 was designed to kill enemy combatants in the most efficient way possible. There's no reason for weapons like the AR-15 or those similar to it to be in the hands of civilians.

Colt had been selling semi-automatic AR-15's to civilians for 5 years by the time the M16A1 replaced the M14. Going off of the serial number records for the SP1, Colt had sold at least 2,501 rifles to the civilian market by 1965, 8,250 rifles by 1967, and 14,653 rifles by 1969.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/on-the-military-and-civilian-history-of-the-ar-15/622310/

 

[FireDragon76]

The word for knife and sword in Koine are identical.

The purpose of the sword found in Luke 22:36 was to fullfill prophesy.

And He said to them, “When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.” And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me: ‘And He was counted with transgressors’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.” (Luke 22:35-38)

The events that took place at the Garden of Gethsemane were necessary so all prophecies concerning Him be fulfilled.

“For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘And He was numbered with transgressors (Isaiah 53:12)’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” (Luke 22:37)

This is why Jesus replied with "That's enough," when his disciples said, “Lord, look here are two swords." (Luke 22:38) Two swords were more than enough needed for that moment in the garden when Peter would draw his sword on one of the men who came to arrest Jesus. Jesus allowed Peter to do this in order to fulfill the prophecy that He would be "numbered with transgressors."

So when Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?” (John 18:11) It was at this point the prophecy found in Isaiah, "He was numbered with transgressors", had been fulfilled.

When Jesus says "It is enough", he is really being harsher in his words than simply approving of their carrying of two swords. Premodern, non-Protestant interpretations of this passage never emphasized Jesus actually approving of them having swords.

Jesus frequently uses hyperbole in his rhetoric, unlike how many modern religious people in the west use language, so it's important to look at the overall context when interpreting passages like this.

 

[JosephZ]

Not according to the firearms, and military, historians, that I've spoken to.

They would be wrong.

Do you have any credible proof of this, to back that assertion?

I tried to find a US Army field manual online to show this since that's the branch I belonged to, but wasn't able to. I was able to find one from the Navy though.

Unnecessary Suffering. Antipersonnel weapons are designed to kill or disable enemy combatants and are lawful notwithstanding the death, pain, and suffering they inflict. Weapons that are designed to cause unnecessary suffering or superfluous injury are, however, prohibited because the degree of pain or injury, or the certainty of death, they produce is needlessly or clearly disproportionate to the military advantage to be gained by their use. Poisoned projectiles and dum-dum bullets fall into this category, because there is little military advantage to be gained by ensuring the death of wounded personnel through poisoning or the expanding effect of soft-nosed or unjacketed lead ammunition.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA221855.pdf

In addition to the basic prohibition on unnecessary suffering contained in Art. 23e of the 1907 Hague IV, one other treaty is germane to this review. The Hague Declaration Concerning Expanding Bullets of 29 July 1899 prohibits the use in international armed conflict:

. . of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions.""

The U.S. is not a party to this treaty, but U.S. officials over the years have taken the position that the armed forces of the U.S. will adhere to its terms to the extent that its application is consistent with the object and purpose of Art. 23e of the Annex to the Hague Convention IV, quoted above.

Sniper Use of Open-Tip Ammunition

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web.archive.org

 

[JosephZ]

Colt had been selling semi-automatic AR-15's to civilians for 5 years by the time the M16A1 replaced the M14. Going off of the serial number records for the SP1, Colt had sold at least 2,501 rifles to the civilian market by 1965, 8,250 rifles by 1967, and 14,653 rifles by 1969.

This may very well be true, but this doesn't change the fact that the AR-15 was initially designed for the military and was designed to kill enemy combatants in the most efficient way possible.

The projectile originally designed for the AR15 was a 55 grain, caliber .223 Remington bullet, with a 90 boattail and a short tangent ogive nose. There had been some question regarding variations in shape, especially as regards bluntness of point, among individual specimens of bullets. Frankford Arsenal conducted an investigation of bullet configuration in 1963 in order to determine the best design for achieving aerodynamic stability with maximum lethality.

The difference in velocity between the Sierra configuration round and the .223 Remington is about 200 feet per second at 500 meters if they are fired with the same initial velocity... BRL further advised that a review of data had indicated that there would be little increase in lethality if the Sierra bullet were chosen.

The comparison was relative to general combat use of the AR-15 by Army units in both normal and special combat situations. The study concluded that the AR-15 was decidedly superior in many of the factors considered and in none of them was the- M-14 superior It further concluded that in combat the AR-15 was the superior weapon.

The study concluded that “taking into account the greater lethality of the improvements in accuracy and rate of fire in this weapon since overall squad kill potential the AR-15 rifle is up to 5 times more effective as the M-14 rifle.”

Report of the M-16 Review Panel 1 June 1968

 

[FireDragon76]

Another thing to consider is that a sword in an untrained person's hands would not be particularly effective as a weapon and would be difficult to conceal. It would attract alot of negative attention from Roman authorities.

In Koine Greek, the word used here, macharia, is a generic term for a sword, dagger, or knife. So it's like what is being referred to is a large knife, which would have been normal for a peasant to own, and not even necessarily considered a weapon.

 

[HARK!]

. . of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions.""

Did you read that?

Do you understand what it is talking about?

That is not a lead round nose bullet.

So I wonder why the Biden administration is making the switch to hollow points for increased expansion.

 

[HARK!]

Another thing to consider is that a sword in an untrained person's hands would not be particularly effective as a weapon and would be difficult to conceal. It would attract alot of negative attention from Roman authorities.

You mean like an AR-15?

In Koine Greek, the word used here, macharia, is a generic term for a sword, dagger, or knife. So it's like what is being referred to is a large knife, which would have been normal for a peasant to own,

So why did he tell them to go buy them?

and not even necessarily considered a weapon.

LOL! They had just eaten the Pesach meal. They weren't out on a late night stroll to peel potatoes; when suddenly Yahshua realized that everyone had forgotten their paring knives.