Your Purgatory idea seems more accurate than heaven vs hell?

[DennisTate]

I have been asking myself this question since 1990 when I began to study near death experience accounts?

Twenty eight years later after studying hundreds of NDE's I think that yes... the Roman Catholic idea of Purgatory is closer to the full truth than the Protestant heaven vs hell teachings. I believe that the key to understanding this is to realize that time is an invention...... that was created by the most off the scale intellect in the universe / Multiverse... and time... was invented to assist human and angelic souls to progress from point A to point B spiritually, mentally, emotionally and yes... even in the types of bodies that we are given.

(I saw the following question on another forum):

R.F: "A churchmate of mine had a dream and she said my dad (who passed away this april 19) visited her. She asked my dad, "Why are you still alive, you are already dead". Then my dad said, " My soul is still in purgatory so I cannot go up, I will be staying for 8 months"... My concern is, is it a real visitation or is it just an ordinary dream? I do not believe in purgatory (it is not in our church' doctrine as we believe only heaven and hell) but how come my "DAD" told her that he is in a purgatory? Any thoughts please?" (R.F.)

I replied:
Purgatory is just a word...... it is subject to definition....... it may have been the closest word that your dad could think of even after several months of being in a higher dimension of space - time. For example.... the word translated "forever" in the Bible in English..... comes from a Hebrew word that actually means....."until the end of conditions last."


Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

receiving station" where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of a particular religious belief they held to be true. Here there were "angels" trying to arouse them and help them realize, "God is truly a God of the living and that they did not have to lie around sleeping until Gabriel or someone came along blowing on a horn." These are the spirits of people who believe they must sleep in their grave until the second coming of Christ (i.e., soul sleep.)

this place is truly hell. Their obsessive thoughts and emotions extended beyond the physical realm and into the spiritual realm where they cannot be satisfied. Yet there was nothing preventing any of the poor spirits in these realms from leaving. There was no condemnation coming from Jesus either - only compassion for these miserable spirits. Ritchie realizes Jesus hadn't abandoned any of them here. Instead they fled from the light to escape from having the darkness of their heart from being revealed.

George Ritchie's Temple of Wisdom and Heavenly City Experience: They then travel to a completely different realm where some kind of enormous university is located. Spirits dressed as monks busily and happily engaged in some form of artistic behavior or research. An enormous library exists here where all the important books of the universe are assembled. Ritchie asks Jesus if this is heaven. These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either.

Please notice this last sentence:
"These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either." (Dr. George Ritchie)....
if these spirits cannot see Jesus.....
are they in the Christian heaven????

 

[faroukfarouk]

I have been asking myself this question since 1990 when I began to study near death experience accounts?

Twenty eight years later after studying hundreds of NDE's I think that yes... the Roman Catholic idea of Purgatory is closer to the full truth than the Protestant heaven vs hell teachings. I believe that the key to understanding this is to realize that time is an invention...... that was created by the most off the scale intellect in the universe / Multiverse... and time... was invented to assist human and angelic souls to progress from point A to point B spiritually, mentally, emotionally and yes... even in the types of bodies that we are given.

(I saw the following question on another forum):


I replied:
Purgatory is just a word...... it is subject to definition....... it may have been the closest word that your dad could think of even after several months of being in a higher dimension of space - time. For example.... the word translated "forever" in the Bible in English..... comes from a Hebrew word that actually means....."until the end of conditions last."


Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience



Please notice this last sentence:
"These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either." (Dr. George Ritchie)....
if these spirits cannot see Jesus.....
are they in the Christian heaven????

Hebrews 1.3: "When He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high."

 

[Tayla]

Hebrews 1.3: "When He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high."

I agree our sins need to be removed (not merely covered over) before we enter heaven. No unclean thing enters heaven. (Revelation 21:27)

 

[DennisTate]

Hebrews 1.3: "When He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high."

And isn't it interesting that little Colton Burpo reported that the Arch-angel Gabriel.... was sitting on the left hand of the Father... .during his NDE?

Colton also met King David, Samson, John the Baptist and Mary the Mother of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus during his brush with death.

 

[DennisTate]

I agree our sins need to be removed (not merely covered over) before we enter heaven. No unclean thing enters heaven. (Revelation 21:27)

I just noticed that I probably posted this in the wrong forum........
not sure if adding this link will make it fit or not........
My 2006, my 2008 and my 2004 campaign writings by DennisTate.
... .but admitting that we either are... .or probably may be in error......
is an act of diplomacy that can play a huge role in ushering in the full fledged Era of Moshiach / Messiah / The Millennium.

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Baruch Chapter 6
[6] For my angel is with you: And I myself will demand an account of your souls."

Baruch 6:6 reminds me of the Life Review part of near death experiences.

John 13:35

"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

When both Protestants and Catholics take a step toward each other we will be closer to breaking the stranglehold that Atheists and Agnostics have on so much of higher education..... and yes..... government!

 

[1am3laine]

You should read my dying and coming back to life story.
The Secrets of The Gospel: What happened to me after I died & came back to life. <-- link here

 

[Davidnic]

I moved the thread from the politics area of one bread one body to the main area

 

[Davidnic]

Although some have theorized that when they see ghosts they're glimpsing onto Purgatory that is not something that official Catholic teaching would agree with.

At times throughout history it's been off and on in the realm of free opinion.

 

[Davidnic]

I just noticed that I probably posted this in the wrong forum........

Where did you want to post it?

 

[Rhamiel]

There is book called Hungry Souls about visions of people in Purgatory

 

[DennisTate]

I moved the thread from the politics area of one bread one body to the main area

Thank you..... once I saw my error this is exactly where I was thinking that I actually should have posted this!

I personally have seen the movie, "Heaven is for Real"... I read the first book that was out on the Colton Burpo NDE...... and I recently purchased the Movie version of that same book. I personally believe that little Colton Burpo is an exceptionally credible witness...... .and I believe that he is forcing Protestants like myself to take another look at the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory!

The results of the poll that I did on this is kind of interesting:

Friends of yours watch Heaven Is For Real and ask you about it?

Is Colton Burpo a credible witness?
Edit

1. *
   Yes
   11 vote(s)
   47.8%
2. 
   No
   10 vote(s)
   43.5%
3. 
   I am not sure but I am looking into this.
   2 vote(s)
   8.7%

Change Your Vote

 

[DennisTate]

You should read my dying and coming back to life story.
The Secrets of The Gospel: What happened to me after I died & came back to life. <-- link here

Impressive indeed!

 

[Rhamiel]

A vision of Purgatory
https://churchpop.com/2016/11/01/a-...14th-c-saints-terrifying-vision-of-purgatory/

 

[Meowzltov]

Glad to have you here, Dennis.

I became convinced of Purgatory when I had a dream that I was in Hell. Of course the problem with it being Hell was that I got out. The Lord meant for it to be a teaching experience. I know the dream was from the Lord because it changed my life. I had that dream long, long time before I became a Catholic.

 

[DennisTate]

Glad to have you here, Dennis.

I became convinced of Purgatory when I had a dream that I was in Hell. Of course the problem with it being Hell was that I got out. The Lord meant for it to be a teaching experience. I know the dream was from the Lord because it changed my life. I had that dream long, long time before I became a Catholic.

Former Atheist Howard Storm Ph. D. discussed the possibility of his converting to Catholicism with a priest but..... he was advised that he was doing great where he was.......
so he may as well continue his awesome work with the denomination that he was with.

Here are a few paragraphs from his book My Descent Into Death:


Howard Storm Ph. D:

"I asked how God could let the Holocaust of World War II happen. We were transported to a railway station as a long train of freight cars was being unloaded of its human cargo. The guards were screaming and beating the people into submission. The people were Jewish men, women, and children. Exhausted from hunger and thirst, they were totally disoriented from the ordeal of being rounded up and sent on a long journey to an unknown destination. They believed that they were going to work camps, and that their submission to the brutality of the guards was the only way to survive.

We went to the area where the selection process was taking place and heard the guards talking about "the Angel Maker." We went to the place the guards were referring to as "the Angel Maker," which was a series of ovens. I saw piles of naked corpses being loaded into the ovens, and I began to cry. Jesus said to me, "These are the people God loves." Then he said, "Look up." Rising out of the smoke of the chimneys, I saw hundreds of people being met by thousands of angels taking them up into the sky. There was great joy in the faces of the people, and there appeared to be no trace of a memory of the horrendous suffering they had just endured. How ironic that the guards sarcastically called the ovens "the Angel Maker."

I asked how God could allow this to happen. They told me that this was not God's will. This was an abomination to God. God wants this never to happen again. This was the sacrifice of an innocent people to whom God had given the law to be an example, a light, to the rest of the world. This Holocaust was breaking God's heart. The anguish that Jesus was suffering at the slaughter of his people was too much for me to bear and I begged that we leave this place. I will never forget this: his anguish at this horror and what it represents. This was one of the low points in human history."

I asked, Why does God let things like this happen? They told me that God was very unhappy with the course of human history and was going to intervene to change the world. God had watched us sink to depths of depravity and cruelty at the very time that he was giving us the instruments to make the world a godlier world. God had intervened in the world many times before, but this time God was going to change the course of human events." (Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death, page 42,43)

 

[DennisTate]

Although some have theorized that when they see ghosts they're glimpsing onto Purgatory that is not something that official Catholic teaching would agree with.

At times throughout history it's been off and on in the realm of free opinion.

That is wise indeed because we humans......
(99% or so of us anyway)... .have no way to be
certain whether a ghost is actually a deceased relative......
or an extremely old fallen angel playing the role of a deceased relative?!

The near death experience account of Dr. George Ritchie impresses me as probably being partly about purgatory because it sure fits with the criteria given in Baruch 6:6.... .George had a Life Review... which to my thinking puts his account into a different category than merely seeing a ghost.

b. His Guided Tour of the Earthbound Realm with Jesus

The following is the testimony of George Ritchie's tour of the Earthbound Realm: Then Jesus begins to take Ritchie on a journey through various realms of the afterlife. They fly toward a large city on Earth where they notice a group of assembly-line workers at work. They witnesses the spirit of a woman trying desperately to grab a cigarette from the workers who were oblivious to her presence. This woman had died severely addicted to cigarettes and was now cut off from the one thing she desperately desired most.



Ritchie realizes how the spirits in these realms immediately know the thoughts of other spirits around them. This is the reason they tend to group together with other spirits. It is too threatening to be around others who knew and disagreed with their thoughts.



Jesus leads Ritchie to a house somewhere on Earth where he is shown the spirit of a young man following his living family members around and begging them for forgiveness. But the family members are completely unaware of his presence. Jesus tells Ritchie the young man committed suicide and is "chained to every consequence of his act."



They then traveled to a bar somewhere on Earth which was filled with sailors drinking heavily. Spirits surrounded the sailors as they tried desperately, and in vain, to grasp the shot glasses to get a drink. Other spirits tried to control the sailors' alcoholic behavior. Ritchie learns these are the spirits of people who died still having a severe alcoholic addiction which went beyond the physical. He is bewildered as he observes one of the sailors passing out causing the sailor's protective aura surrounding him to crack open. When it does, it allows a spirit to scramble into the sailor's unconscious body. This scene was repeated over and over." (George Ritchie, near-death .com)

From my research.... if there is a Life Review... the account can be taken more seriously.

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Baruch Chapter 6
6] For my angel is with you: And I myself will demand an account of your souls."

 

[DennisTate]

Howard Storm Ph. D" "It's way more complex than either the universalists or the fundamentalists think..... I think they have tried to make it so simple..... that's all they can handle ......but it's way more complicated than that."

Spoken at 1:11:40 or so in this exceptional audio interview......

 

[DennisTate]

You should read my dying and coming back to life story.
The Secrets of The Gospel: What happened to me after I died & came back to life. <-- link here

I have got to read this again... but I had to add this........
because after the two minute mark in this video.......
some Catholic ideas on reproduction are verified by near death experiencer Bob Jones....

He told people that they had to reverse....... their permanent contraception.......

At least that is how I took it..... .was I wrong?????

 

[AvilaSurfer]

.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

nm