You Can Support Israel and not be a Dispensationalist.

[All Becomes New]

It annoys me to no end the misconceptions there are about supporting Israel.

I believe supporting Israel is what the Bible says. There are countless verses that talk about this.

I consider myself a Historic Pre-Millenialist. I do not believe there are seven dispensations. However, the Bible is clear that God loves the Jewish people. And the Church did not just replace Israel. It says in the Bible that God would regather Israel. That is why when Israel was recognized as its own nation it was such a big deal. It was literally prophecy coming true before our eyes.

I had a person recently tell me that I could not think that the Jews are God's chosen people and not be a dispensationalist. The problem with this view is that throughout the Church, many people have held this view before Dispensationalism was ever brought up. Even people like Christostom who said some of the most anti-semitic things in Church history believe there remained a plan for God to save all of Israel. It is only this new Covenant theology that tries to cut Israel out from His plans.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I don't know what your calling New Covenant Theology, sounds like a typical Reformed view of Scripture that we live under the New Covenant in Christ's blood. It's really core part of the Christian faith.

I'm not a dispensationalist, I'm Amillenial eschatology and I don't believe Jews are anything other than lost ATM but it's not cause to abandon our allies when they are under attack from terrorists.

There's no religious reason to support Israel in particular but there's sure a duty to do what's right before God - something about doing justice anyway in the Bible.

The reason - if you're curious why it ever goes back in time anyway is because some of the Arabs don't want an Israel on the continent. Period.

However, if we are going there? Yeah, Jews win by going back to ancient times because we all know they are from there. It's not really debatable.

That's not really Zionism though, because we aren't arguing about right to formation anymore, not generations down the road... now it is just can you really remove them from where they are.

Zionism is a monkier for we hate Jews. Jews haters are not good people. I do agree with Jews they are some kind of weather vain .. something is up with the hate.

But don't look to eschatological positions for what to do or how to do a thing. That's silly, just live as God asks of us and we will always be doing what's right before God.

 

[All Becomes New]

I don't know what your calling New Covenant Theology, which is just a typical Reformed view of Scripture and the Christian faith that we live under the New Covenant in Christ's blood.

I'm not a dispensationalist, I'm Amillenial eschatology and I don't believe Jews are anything other than lost ATM but it's not cause to abandon our allies when they are under attack from terrorists.

There's no religious reason to support Israel in particular I don't see but there's sure a duty to do what's right before God - something about doing justice anyway in the Bible.

The reason - if you're curious why it ever goes back in time anyway is because some of the Arabs don't want an Israel on the continent.

However, if we are going right to be there? Yeah, Jews win by going back to ancient times because we all know they are from there. It's not really debatable.

That's not really Zionism though, because we aren't arguing about right to formation anymore, not generations down the road... now it is just can you really remove them from where they are.

Zionism is a monkier for we hate Jews. Jews haters are not good people. I do agree with Jews they are some kind of weather vain ..

Hey, I appreciate this, but I would encourage you to watch the video I linked. That shows clearly that God does still have promises for Israel.

 

[RandyPNW]

It annoys me to no end the misconceptions there are about supporting Israel.

I believe supporting Israel is what the Bible says. There are countless verses that talk about this.

I consider myself a Historic Pre-Millenialist. I do not believe there are seven dispensations. However, the Bible is clear that God loves the Jewish people. And the Church did not just replace Israel. It says in the Bible that God would regather Israel. That is why when Israel was recognized as its own nation it was such a big deal. It was literally prophecy coming true before our eyes.

I had a person recently tell me that I could not think that the Jews are God's chosen people and not be a dispensationalist. The problem with this view is that throughout the Church, many people have helped this view before Dispensationalism was ever brought up. Even people like Christostom who said some of the most anti-semitic things in Church history believe there remained a plan for God to save all of Israel. It is only this new Covenant theology that tries to cut Israel out from His plans.

I was raised a Lutheran and was Amillennial by default. But I still recall as a young person when our family heard the 1967 war on the radio. We knew Israel was special and fully supported them.

Later, I was influenced by Dispensationalists to become Premillennial. But soon after I rejected Dispensationalism, and became more aligned with men like George E. Ladd, who was a non-Dispensationalist Premillennial.

Although I'm no longer a Dispensationalist I think that one of the great things about Dispensationalism is its Premillennial outlook, along with its preference to favor Israel. I reject Pretribulationism and Imminency Doctrine--it does not place a premium on ministry, since it believes "Jesus could return any minute!"

Paul said that God will fulfill our callings and ministries if we are faithful. And the Gospel, Jesus said, must be preached to all the earth before the end will come.

One of the reasons for the preaching of the Gospel is to preach not just to Israel but to all the world. In fact, Israel has been placed sort of on the back burner until it is closer to the coming of the Kingdom.

But God has never stopped preaching to the Jewish People since He had mandated that there always remain a Christian remnant among them, giving testimony to the coming Kingdom. And I believe the coming Kingdom will not only restore Israel but will also restore many fallen Christian nations.

To Abraham God promised that he would make him a father of Israel as well as the father of man nations. This will be complete, I believe, in the Millennium.

The current conspiracy against Israel and against the Jews is, I feel, an attack by Satan against God's word and against God's promises. Bless you for maintaining your support for Israel, because I believe that regardless of their not being a Christian nation they are the victims--not the Muslims.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Hey, I appreciate this, but I would encourage you to watch the video I linked. That shows clearly that God does still have promises for Israel.

One way or the other not much to do about it.

We are a completely different country and we may not be in any position in the future to help anyone.

All we do is what is the right thing to do within our power to do it.

 

[All Becomes New]

The current conspiracy against Israel and against the Jews is, I feel, an attack by Satan against God's word and against God's promises.

I agree 100%!

 

[All Becomes New]

We are a completely different country and we may not be in any position in the future to help anyone.

Yes, I am not sure the USA will be around in 100 years. Yet Christ's Church will remain.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Yes, I am not sure the USA will be around in 100 years. Yet Christ's Church will remain.

If we lose this election we won't have a country in 4 more years.

 

[All Becomes New]

If we lose this election we won't have a country in 4 more years.

I am not as sure of that. I don't think Kamala has that kind of power. I think as a society we are going down the drink very quickly, but I do not believe a single politician can singlehandedly destroy the US.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I am not as sure of that. I don't think Kamala has that kind of power. I think as a society we are going down the drink very quickly, but I do not believe a single politician can singlehandedly destroy the US.

They are intentionally attacking us right now, and have been for 8 years.

We have been cancelled, faced government censorship, faced media and big tech censorship, been placed on watch lists, been threatened by every Democrat in office and half the Republicans, and been forced from every platform we don't own.

They have tried to silence our vote by slandering Trump in the media falsely, refused to give us the courtesy of respecting the choices of the American people, they have impeached him, fought against every policy initiative he was trying to put in place when he was in office, and now, when jailing him backfired have tried to kill him twice. literally .

The government has been in all our war against the basic rights Americans have, that of our rights to free speech - which intent was our freedom to political speech, and our rights to vote and have free and fair elections.

When slandering Trump, impeaching Trump, charging Trump, and killing Trump didn't work, when slandering us, silencing us, shoving us off every platform and threatening us didn't work - now the full force of their hatred is against us, and now they are destroying our communities in order to dilute our vote with migrants.

The American people will never have another voice in American politics again if we can't effectively fight back and win the election.

Over here? The United States government has been in all out war against the American people for 8 years, and they aren't letting up.

They truly and deeply appear to hate us.

 

[All Becomes New]

They are intentionally attacking us right now, and have been for 8 years.

We have been cancelled, faced government censorship, faced media and big tech censorship, been placed on watch lists, been threatened by every Democrat in office and half the Republicans, and been forced from every platform we don't own.

They have tried to silence our vote by slandering Trump in the media falsely, refused to give us the courtesy of respecting the choices of the American people, they have impeached him, fought against every policy initiative he was trying to put in place when he was in office, and now, when jailing him backfired have tried to kill him twice. literally .

The government has been in all our war against the basic rights Americans have, that of our rights to free speech - which intent was our freedom to political speech, and our rights to vote and have free and fair elections.

When slandering Trump, impeaching Trump, charging Trump, and killing Trump didn't work, when slandering us, silencing us, shoving us off every platform and threatening us didn't work - now the full force of their hatred is against us, and now they are destroying our communities in order to dilute our vote with migrants.

The American people will never have another voice in American politics again if we can't effectively fight back and win the election.

Over here? The United States government has been in all out war against the American people for 8 years, and they aren't letting up.

They truly and deeply appear to hate us.

You don't want to know what I think of Trump then. He's better than Kamala, but by far not someone I want as president.

It's easy to propagate this kind of "us vs them" mentality. Reality is much more nuanced though.

 

[Hazelelponi]

You don't want to know what I think of Trump then. He's better than Kamala, but by far not someone I want as president.

It's easy to propagate this kind of "us vs them" mentality. Reality is much more nuanced though.

Well I've been the brunt of some of the reality you don't believe is occuring so I don't dismiss it so easily.

Trump is an imperfect personality, but so are we all. At least he's fighting for us and not against us.

You want to see dead Jews, dead Americans? Let this attack on us continue without light.

 

[All Becomes New]

Well I've been the brunt of some of the reality you don't believe is occuring so I don't dismiss it so easily.

Trump is an imperfect personality, but so are we all. At least he's fighting for us and not against us.

You want to see dead Jews, dead Americans? Let this attack on us continue without light.

Trump is just another politician at this point and has been for some time. He supported mass vax for Covid (and FYI I was never vaxxed for Covid). He has changed his view on abortion a million times. What matters to him is votes because he is a power-hungry politician at this point. He can't say that abortion is wrong, for example, and says he was/is the most Pro-Life president that there has ever been. It's an example like this that shows that Trump is largely just rhetoric and not any better than any other politician.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Trump is just another politician at this point and has been for some time. He supported mass vax for Covid (and FYI I was never vaxxed for Covid). He has changed his view on abortion a million times. What matters to him is votes because he is a power-hungry politician at this point. He can't say that abortion is wrong, for example, and says he was/is the most Pro-Life president that there has ever been. It's an example like this that shows that Trump is largely just rhetoric and not any better than any other politician.

What matters to him is votes?

He has good policies and we benefited greatly from them in my part of America.

We fought trying to get him elected from the first because his policy platform was what we wanted him to do - and what we needed him to do.

We need him to do it again, or we will not make it, not like it was. Not anything good for us. His policies are needed - we need them.

 

[Hazelelponi]

And sorry I even brought it up. Im out. Have a nice evening.

 

[All Becomes New]

What matters to him is votes?

He has good policies and we benefited greatly from them in my part of America.

We fought trying to get him elected from the first because his policy platform was what we wanted him to do - and what we needed him to do.

We need him to do it again, or we will not make it, not like it was. Not anything good for us. His policies are needed - we need them.

Honestly, I think Trump is the kind of guy who would not be shy about using a nuke. That alone is reason enough not to vote for him. Kamala is worse, as I said because I don't know that Trump would use a nuke for sure. But I know the kind of person Trump is and I would not put it past him. He rules through other nations fearing us. That much is sure to me.

 

[All Becomes New]

And sorry I even brought it up. Im out. Have a nice evening.

It's okay. It's clearly an issue you feel very strongly about. I disagree. But sometimes we need to have these dialogs. I just hope you have not been insulted by what I have said.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Hey, I appreciate this, but I would encourage you to watch the video I linked. That shows clearly that God does still have promises for Israel.

No, God does not still have promises for Israel except salvation through faith in Christ.

 

[All Becomes New]

No, God does not still have promises for Israel except salvation through faith in Christ.

False. Read Romans 9-11. That is clear.

Psalm 105:7-11
"He is the LORD our God;
his judgments govern the whole earth.
He remembers his covenant forever,
the promise he ordained
for a thousand generations—
the covenant he made with Abraham,
swore to Isaac,
and confirmed to Jacob as a decree
and to Israel as a permanent covenant:
“I will give the land of Canaan to you
as your inherited portion.”"

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

There are many wonderful promises in the Scripture about Israel that are yet to be fulfilled.

It is true that God has divorced His wife Israel, however He will take her back. Hosea 2 16 “And in that day, declares the Lord, you will call me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer will you call me ‘My Baal.’ 17 For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, and they shall be remembered by name no more. 18 And I will make for them a covenant on that day with the beasts of the field, the birds of the heavens, and the creeping things of the ground. And I will abolish[f] the bow, the sword, and war from the land, and I will make you lie down in safety. 19 And I will betroth you to me forever. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy.

Jeremiah 31 31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I don't know how Christians can claim that Church has replaced Israel. It's not Biblical, and it sounds very prideful. I hate this false doctorine.