Worried about what the clean and unclean foods are?

[treeofglory1]

Im confused. I eat chicken, turkey, pork.. Should I not be?

I read about turkey and chicken being "like the vulture" because they both eat bugs and small rodents.

Pork is unclean according to the old testament.

What exactly is clean? Im always so confused about what to eat.
Should I stick to red meat and fish?!

 

[TuxAme]

You can eat whatever you desire (so long as you don't overeat). Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, and now we are free to eat what we please. The purpose of the food laws seems to have been to set Israel apart from the nations around them, but now that the Covenant has been opened up to gentiles as well, we have no need to be "set apart" from the world in respect to food anymore.

 

[R. Hartono]

What enter ur mouth only comes out as dirt, what comes out of the mouth can be sinful n destructive

 

[SkyWriting]

Im confused. I eat chicken, turkey, pork.. Should I not be?I read about turkey and chicken being "like the vulture" because they both eat bugs and small rodents. Pork is unclean according to the old testament. What exactly is clean? Im always so confused about what to eat.Should I stick to red meat and fish?!

Also follow all rules about unclean woman while you're at it.

Here are 1/3 of
more rules:


1. Burning any yeast or honey in offerings to God (2:11) [Normal penalty.]
2. Failing to include salt in offerings to God (2:13) [Normal penalty.]
3. Eating fat (3:17) [That one’s “a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.” All fat is to be saved for offerings to God. Normal penalty.]
4. Eating blood (3:17) [Normal penalty]
5. Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you’ve witnessed (5:1) [“They will be held responsible.”]
6. Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you’ve been told about (5:1) [Which sounds like hearsay. At any rate, “they shall be held responsible.”]
7. Touching an unclean animal (5:2) [NIV translates this as touching “the carcass” of an unclean animal. So if Rover dies, or you’re a worker in a pork plant, you’re in trouble here. Normal penalty.]
8. Carelessly making an oath (5:4) [Even if you don’t realize you have. Normal penalty.]
9. Deceiving a neighbour about something trusted to them (6:2) [Return the item and a 20% penalty, plus normal penalty.]
10. Finding lost property and lying about it (6:3) [Return the item and a 20% penalty, plus normal penalty.]
11. Bringing unauthorised fire before God (10:1) [God will smite you.]
12. Letting your hair become unkempt (10:6) [“You will die” and God will be angry at everyone. May only apply to the priesthood.]
13. Tearing your clothes (10:6) [“You will die” and God will be angry at everyone. May only apply to the priesthood.]
14. Drinking alcohol in holy places (bit of a problem for Catholics, this ‘un) (10:9) [“You will die.” May only apply to the priesthood.]
15. Eating an animal which doesn’t both chew cud and has a divided hoof (cf: camel, rabbit, pig) (11:4-7) [“You will be unclean.]
16. Touching the carcass of any of the above (problems here for rugby) (11:8) [“You will be unclean.”]
17. Eating – or touching the carcass of – any seafood without fins or scales (11:10-12) [“You will be uclean.”]
18. Eating – or touching the carcass of – eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. (11:13-19) [“You will be unclean.”]
19. Eating – or touching the carcass of – flying insects with four legs, unless those legs are jointed (11:20-22) [“You will be unclean.”]
20. Eating any animal which walks on all four and has paws (good news for cats) (11:27) [“You will be unclean.” Also applies to touching their carcasses.]
21. Eating – or touching the carcass of – the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard,the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon (11:29) [“You will be unclean.”]
22. Eating – or touching the carcass of – any creature which crawls on many legs, or its belly (11:41-42) [“You will be unclean.”]
23. Going to church within 33 days after giving birth to a boy (12:4) [Actually, she’s unclean a week, and then another 33 days. Then she has to offer up a sacrifice.]
24. Going to church within 66 days after giving birth to a girl (12:5) [Actually, she’s unclean a week, and then another 66 days. Then she has to offer up a sacrifice.]
25. Having sex with your mother (18:7) [The penalty for all the sexual sins in ch. 18 is that the participants are to be “cut off” from their people. Some have additional penalties mentioned below.]

 

[TuxAme]

To avoid confusion, read the following passage:

And he called the people to him again, and said to them, “Hear me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him.” And when he had entered the house, and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) Mark 7:14-19

 

[Occams Barber]

Also follow all rules about unclean woman while you're at it.

Here are 1/3 of
more rules:


1. Burning any yeast or honey in offerings to God (2:11) [Normal penalty.]
2. Failing to include salt in offerings to God (2:13) [Normal penalty.]
3. Eating fat (3:17) [That one’s “a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.” All fat is to be saved for offerings to God. Normal penalty.]
4. Eating blood (3:17) [Normal penalty]
5. Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you’ve witnessed (5:1) [“They will be held responsible.”]
6. Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you’ve been told about (5:1) [Which sounds like hearsay. At any rate, “they shall be held responsible.”]
7. Touching an unclean animal (5:2) [NIV translates this as touching “the carcass” of an unclean animal. So if Rover dies, or you’re a worker in a pork plant, you’re in trouble here. Normal penalty.]
8. Carelessly making an oath (5:4) [Even if you don’t realize you have. Normal penalty.]
9. Deceiving a neighbour about something trusted to them (6:2) [Return the item and a 20% penalty, plus normal penalty.]
10. Finding lost property and lying about it (6:3) [Return the item and a 20% penalty, plus normal penalty.]
11. Bringing unauthorised fire before God (10:1) [God will smite you.]
12. Letting your hair become unkempt (10:6) [“You will die” and God will be angry at everyone. May only apply to the priesthood.]
13. Tearing your clothes (10:6) [“You will die” and God will be angry at everyone. May only apply to the priesthood.]
14. Drinking alcohol in holy places (bit of a problem for Catholics, this ‘un) (10:9) [“You will die.” May only apply to the priesthood.]
15. Eating an animal which doesn’t both chew cud and has a divided hoof (cf: camel, rabbit, pig) (11:4-7) [“You will be unclean.]
16. Touching the carcass of any of the above (problems here for rugby) (11:8) [“You will be unclean.”]
17. Eating – or touching the carcass of – any seafood without fins or scales (11:10-12) [“You will be uclean.”]
18. Eating – or touching the carcass of – eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. (11:13-19) [“You will be unclean.”]
19. Eating – or touching the carcass of – flying insects with four legs, unless those legs are jointed (11:20-22) [“You will be unclean.”]
20. Eating any animal which walks on all four and has paws (good news for cats) (11:27) [“You will be unclean.” Also applies to touching their carcasses.]
21. Eating – or touching the carcass of – the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard,the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon (11:29) [“You will be unclean.”]
22. Eating – or touching the carcass of – any creature which crawls on many legs, or its belly (11:41-42) [“You will be unclean.”]
23. Going to church within 33 days after giving birth to a boy (12:4) [Actually, she’s unclean a week, and then another 33 days. Then she has to offer up a sacrifice.]
24. Going to church within 66 days after giving birth to a girl (12:5) [Actually, she’s unclean a week, and then another 66 days. Then she has to offer up a sacrifice.]
25. Having sex with your mother (18:7) [The penalty for all the sexual sins in ch. 18 is that the participants are to be “cut off” from their people. Some have additional penalties mentioned below.]

Boy, am I in trouble.

 

[Job3315]

Im confused. I eat chicken, turkey, pork.. Should I not be?

I read about turkey and chicken being "like the vulture" because they both eat bugs and small rodents.

Pork is unclean according to the old testament.

What exactly is clean? Im always so confused about what to eat.
Should I stick to red meat and fish?!

I found the Book/Epistle of Barnabas. He explains that the law had a spiritual meaning. It was something spiritual manifested/shown in the physical through their actions, but then the Israelites made it a law for salvation. The Lord was just explaining how He want His children to be from the inside out. Its not about what you eat or drink, its about who you are in the inside. Reading that book helped me understand the law and God’s heart.

 

[Ken Rank]

Im confused. I eat chicken, turkey, pork.. Should I not be?

I read about turkey and chicken being "like the vulture" because they both eat bugs and small rodents.

Pork is unclean according to the old testament.

What exactly is clean? Im always so confused about what to eat.
Should I stick to red meat and fish?!

As somebody who eats biblically clean (i.e. no shellfish, pork, catfish, etc.) I will say this... do as you are convicted, not as other people tell you. If there is a conviction to eat clean, it is all listed in the bible to follow and you are welcome to write me any time if you have questions. Many will post about how Jesus' death did away with the law... and they are entitled to that view and I don't try to talk them out of it. But I don't believe that... I believe he died to reverse the curse of sin and death, the penalty for sin... not the commandments... he didn't die to do away with what God considers holy and righteous or something profane.

For me, personally... he ate clean, he is our model to follow, I do the same. But again, you must do as you are convicted and make it between you and God, not you and everyone else who has an opinion, including me.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[Ken Rank]

To avoid confusion, read the following passage:

And he called the people to him again, and said to them, “Hear me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him.” And when he had entered the house, and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) Mark 7:14-19

"Thus he declared all foods clean" is not in the Greek manuscripts... it is added by the translators in our translations but it isn't in the manuscripts. All he is saying in these verses is that it isn't what goes in that makes you unclean... it is what comes out. So what makes a woman unclean after she gives birth? Blood, fluids... sperm, puss... all these things make us unclean. But unclean is NOT SIN... there is a HUGE difference. If we eat something unclean, it doesn't make us unclean, for we simply remove it from the body during the elimination process... this is what he is saying in these verses.

But something God did NOT CREATE AS FOOD didn't all of a sudden become food because Jesus died. A pig isn't food because the God who does not change said it isn't food.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You can eat whatever you desire (so long as you don't overeat). Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, and now we are free to eat what we please. The purpose of the food laws seems to have been to set Israel apart from the nations around them, but now that the Covenant has been opened up to gentiles as well, we have no need to be "set apart" from the world in respect to food anymore.

So, we are now free to go back into the world (that Christ died to bring us out of).

 

[jayem]

Im confused. I eat chicken, turkey, pork.. Should I not be?

I read about turkey and chicken being "like the vulture" because they both eat bugs and small rodents.

Pork is unclean according to the old testament.

What exactly is clean? Im always so confused about what to eat.
Should I stick to red meat and fish?!

Your diet should be determined by what is healthy for you. Have you ever had a lipid profile done? If your triglycerides or LDL cholesterol is high, you should limit foods high in saturated and trans fats. Which are most red meats (beef, pork, and lamb,) full fat dairy products (butter and high fat cheeses,) and tropical plant fats (coconut and palm oils.) Lean seafood, poultry, and some low-fat cuts of beef and pork in moderation are OK. Simple sugars (sucrose, honey, maple syrup) also contribute to arterial plaque formation, and should be limited. Fiber and monounsaturated fats are good (olive, peanut, avocado oils.) If you don't have a lipid problem, and no family history of cardiovascular disease, then you can eat what you like, but still watch the high-risk foods. A high intake of sodium, and nitrates (bacon and cured meats) is also best avoided.

But in any event, base your diet on medical science. Not on what is clean or unclean according to religious dogma.

 

[TuxAme]

So, we are now free to go back into the world (that Christ died to bring us out of).

That's not what I said. What I did say is that we don't need to eat different things (or restrict the things we eat) in order to "prove" that we don't "love the world".

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's not what I said. What I did say is that we don't need to eat different things (or restrict the things we eat) in order to "prove" that we don't "love the world".

Sorry, I was connecting the eating certain disgusting things with "the world".

 

[Hank77]

"Thus he declared all foods clean" is not in the Greek manuscripts... it is added by the translators in our translations but it isn't in the manuscripts.

I don't know of any translation that has those words included as though they are part of the verse or a verse. ??

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Im confused. I eat chicken, turkey, pork.. Should I not be?

I read about turkey and chicken being "like the vulture" because they both eat bugs and small rodents.

Pork is unclean according to the old testament.

What exactly is clean? Im always so confused about what to eat.
Should I stick to red meat and fish?!

The whole issue of clean/unclean foods revolves around pork and certain sea foods. I suggest reviewing the biblical list. Also swine in the OT were feral, loaded with disease and parasites, as are feral swine today. Their feces contaminate the soil with their parasites, which can infect sheep and goats as well as deer and other animals. Feral hogs in the U.S. are a biological time bomb that will go off if they aren't controlled soon.

 

[Occams Barber]

I am honestly confused.

When you're all arguing about the morality of OT slavery or slaughtering children I'm told that "that's all Old Covenant stuff and it doesn't apply under the New Covenant rules".

When it comes to homosexuality or coveting your neighbour's wife or ass etc. etc., well that's also OT stuff, but we're applying the Matthew 5:18 'don't change it one jot or tittle' rule - so it still applies.

Now @Ken Rank tells me:

But something God did NOT CREATE AS FOOD didn't all of a sudden become food because Jesus died. A pig isn't food because the God who does not change said it isn't food.

which seems to be a cogent argument that OT Clean/Unclean rules still apply.

I'm no expert but I've heard there are around 613 commandments in the OT.

It would be useful if someone could list all 613 and you could all agree on whether or not each one does or does not still apply and why.
OB

 

[Tanj]

Boy, am I in trouble.

I know what you mean. If I had a penny for every unjointed 4 legged flying insect I have eaten...

 

[Occams Barber]

I know what you mean. If I had a penny for every unjointed 4 legged flying insect I have eaten...

Fortunately I've managed to resist that particular form of abominable perversity and corruptness.

My main concern is with unkempt hair ...… failing to use conditioner has bought me the death penalty.

Then there's the mother thing...………………………………….
OB

 

[SkyWriting]

"Thus he declared all foods clean" is not in the Greek manuscripts... it is added by the translators in our translations but it isn't in the manuscripts. All he is saying in these verses is that it isn't what goes in that makes you unclean... it is what comes out. So what makes a woman unclean after she gives birth? Blood, fluids... sperm, puss... all these things make us unclean. But unclean is NOT SIN... there is a HUGE difference. If we eat something unclean, it doesn't make us unclean, for we simply remove it from the body during the elimination process... this is what he is saying in these verses.

But something God did NOT CREATE AS FOOD didn't all of a sudden become food because Jesus died. A pig isn't food because the God who does not change said it isn't food.

It was people who wrote scripture by inspiration. I pray by inspiration but my prayers are not God. Painters paint by inspiration, but what inspires them is not saying their paintings are the inspiration that creates them.

 

[Ken Rank]

I am honestly confused.

When you're all arguing about the morality of OT slavery or slaughtering children I'm told that "that's all Old Covenant stuff and it doesn't apply under the New Covenant rules".

When it comes to homosexuality or coveting your neighbour's wife or ass etc. etc., well that's also OT stuff, but we're applying the Matthew 5:18 'don't change it one jot or tittle' rule - so it still applies.

Now @Ken Rank tells me:

which seems to be a cogent argument that OT Clean/Unclean rules still apply.

I'm no expert but I've heard there are around 613 commandments in the OT.

It would be useful if someone could list all 613 and you could all agree on whether or not each one does or does not still apply and why.
OB

After reading your reply I began to write back and realized I was about to start discussing doctrine. I don't think that is necessary, instead, if you will grant me a few minutes of your time, I would prefer to discuss our bias.

Having a bias is natural and we all have them. That bias, or lens through which we view everything around us, is shaped in us from the earliest stages of life. We take on, subconsciously, the paradigm of our parents, teachers, as well as our ethnic, cultural, and national perspectives. Recognizing we have a bias, and then being able to see outside of it, is not an easy thing to do. This all said as a foundation...

We also have a Christian bias, but not just a Christian bias, in my case I have a modern, Western, English based Christian bias and everything I interpret from Scripture will come from that paradigm. The problem is, the NT is (rounding off) no less than 1900 years old (for the most recent book) and the rest are nearly 2000 years old with the "OT" being much older. And, each and every book, save for perhaps Mark, Luke, and Acts, was written by Semites in what we now call “the Ancient Near East.”

Why this matters is because, though God inspired them all to write, they were raised in a different time, a different culture, are a different ethnicity, and most books seem to come from a time of captivity or on the heels of one. We also need to consider that cultural events from that time are being discussed, and also that there are the use of idioms and other abstract forms of speech that were unique to them in that day, as well. And, in the case of Paul specifically, the use of interpretational skills that were well known in that day... but not so much today. In other words, and as one point, we are reading a 2000 year old+ collection of writings and defining all the words through a 21st century dictionary. We are reading a 2000+ year old Semitic writing and looking through a lens as we read each word, that is entrenched in the 21st century Western world. And yet we are taught that "context" is the verse before and after???

You mentioned slavery. When you did, I know for a fact that you had the American history's version of slavery in your mind as the image you see when you read the word “slave” in the OT. But the abomination that happened to the darker skin Africans is NOT what is happening in the bible. The “slaves” that we see in the “OT” were members of the family they were slave to. Consider Abraham's "servant" Eliezer. He was not Abraham's son, in fact he might have been Nimrod's son, and yet this "servant" (Hebrew word is ‛eved) was the head of Abraham's household. He was trusted, loved, a member of the family... and that word ‛eved, it is the word we would translate as slave. (H5650)

In addition to slave, there are many other words we do this with... adoption for one. We read “adoption” and think “orphan.” I imagine that would preach well, being spiritual orphans taken in by a loving heavenly Father. And, while there is truth to that, that isn't what biblical adoption is. Adoption in those days was being brought into a family to do the work of that family. I can show you ancient documents where a son was adopted by his father, a grandson adopted by his grandfather... into the family business. It has nothing to do with being homeless or family-less. So us being "adopted sons and daughters of God," means we have been brought into the family to do the work of the family. Which is what? Teach the nations.

My point is, the answer to your questions and points won't be received by you until you can begin to at least explore some of the things I am talking about. Those interpretational skills of Paul, learned at the School of Hillel, are used by Paul over 30 times in his letters and they are designed to affect context. We are not even raised to know what they are, let alone recognize them.

My point is... you say “OT” and see slavery and see it as bad. But God authored the “OT” through His prophets which means it has to be good! And if something seems out of line with His character (see the fruits of the Spirit like love, peace, joy, etc.) then it is US who is looking through a clouded lens, because God does not change. If He is a God of love, peace and joy today, who is quick to extend grace... then He always has been because He does not change. We read the “OT” and see an angry ogre type God bent on punishment, but that is our faulty paradigm, our faulty bias... that we need to look outside of.

I said all this to say that any discussion we have concerning the commandments will be circular, and might end in strife because our paradigms are simply too different. Incidentally, even when all 613 commandments in the Torah (Law) were applicable (meaning, at a time when there was a Temple and Levites) not all applied to everyone. For example, I am a man, I live outside the land, am not a Levite, and there is no Temple. Therefore, any commandment that is specific to the Temple, to the priests, to women, to the land, etc., I can't follow because they don't apply. I do what I can do which is probably around 80 or so. The rest simply don't apply for various reasons at this time.

Blessings.
Ken