Woman who preaches in Church

[Clare73]

One of these days, we're all going to wake up and realize that the issue of women in the pulpit is the least of the issues to be concerned over.

That reveals more than you realize. . .

 

[2PhiloVoid]

.

 

[Apple Sky]

In what way does it reveal something, Clare?

I would answer you but you are quoting from something I didn't say.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I would answer you but you are quoting from something I didn't say.

Yeah..............something happened with my attempt to quote the reply. My apologies.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

That reveals more than you realize. . .

In what way does this reveal something, Clare?

 

[Truth7t7]

And that applies to silencing women how?

1 Corinthians 14:34KJV
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Agra man]

So if women who back then were under a different cultrue are to be silent does that include worship?

 

[stevevw]

When Christainity became the religion of the Roman Empire it was a radical change to the Greco Roman Pagan worldview. Under Roman social norms women were inferior and had little rights. In general humans were seen as animals of varying worth. Slaves were the lowest but women were below men.

But the Christain principle that all are equal in Christ began to change all that and women became equal to men. THis same principle was the basis for national Declarations and Human Rights. We are made in Gods image and above animals and human ideas of human worth.

So in that sense men and women or any identity marker is irrelevant and we are all equal. A women can bring Gods word and save someone just as a man or anyone even the least of who the world may think is worthy.

 

[Agra man]

When Christainity became the religion of the Roman Empire it was a radical change to the Greco Roman Pagan worldview. Under Roman social norms women were inferior and had little rights. In general humans were seen as animals of varying worth. Slaves were the lowest but women were below men.

But the Christain principle that all are equal in Christ began to change all that and women became equal to men. THis same principle was the basis for national Declarations and Human Rights. We are made in Gods image and above animals and human ideas of human worth.

So in that sense men and women or any identity marker is irrelevant and we are all equal. A women can bring Gods word and save someone just as a man or anyone even the least of who the world may think is worthy.

the only thing I cannot understand is why was it written about women being silent in the word of God because the whole thing is his word yet I have personally seen God use women preachers to great extent.

 

[RamiC]

the only thing I cannot understand is why was it written about women being silent in the word of God because the whole thing is his word yet I have personally seen God use women preachers to great extent.

My own post #210 in this thread is me sharing the solution to to this, as it works for for me.

Even the word of God needs consideration of context, application and intent.

 

[stevevw]

the only thing I cannot understand is why was it written about women being silent in the word of God because the whole thing is his word yet I have personally seen God use women preachers to great extent.

I have not done a deep dive into this theologically so I am not sure. But it seems from some research on this that this may be in reference to a particular role rather than in every situation which is to do with authority regarding the whole congregation.

It seems Paul was mentioning how the congregation was getting disorganised and members were speaking out of turn and over each other and not interpreting prophesy in revealing GOds word. So Paul was saying ultimately for this matter of overall authority a male should be in that position.

But for other situations women were able to be involved in teaching and leading.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

They died, yes. They probably had heart attacks and these could well have been brought on by the shock of hearing that they had lied to God

Peter pronounced Sapphira’s death before she died, and the coincidental timing and place of their deaths indicate that this was indeed God’s judgment. Whether God chose to do it through heart attack or any other way, I don't know.

The sudden, dramatic deaths of Ananias and Sapphira served to purify and warn the church. Right away, in the church’s infancy, God made it plain that hypocrisy and dissimulation were not going to be tolerated, and His judgment of Ananias and Sapphira helped guard the church against future pretense. God laid the bodies of Ananias and Sapphira in the path of every hypocrite who would seek to enter the church.

Exactly. And because God is calling women to preach, and to ordination, clearly there can be nothing in Scripture which forbids this.

God is not calling any woman to preach, as that would go against His Word. So it is not God calling them, but it is their own desire to preach, which is a rebellion to God.

1 Timothy 2:12: “But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.” This command comes in a section of 1 Timothy which teaches about the functioning of a local church. Some people believe when the apostle Paul wrote that a woman should not “teach or exercise authority over a man,” he was conforming to a unique situation in the city of Ephesus or to the cultural value system of the time, but that is not the case. Notice in the next verse Paul refers back to God’s original design for man and woman: “For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve” (1 Timothy 2:13). This proves God wants His created design of male leadership and female submission in the family to extend into the functioning of the church.

When God created Adam and Eve, He designed a productive and perfect balance between the nurturing leadership of a man and the supportive following of a woman in marriage. After God created Adam, He said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him” (Genesis 2:18). A few verses later we read how God created Eve: “So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, ‘This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.’ For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh” (Genesis 2:21–24).

When Adam and Eve sinned, God’s perfect plan was perverted by the depravity in the hearts of men and women. Adam sinned by stepping out from under God’s authority when he ate the divinely forbidden fruit, and Eve chose to reject the authority of both Adam and the Lord. One of the consequences of their sin was the corruption of the complementary relationship between man and woman. Genesis 3:16 records what the Lord told Eve: “Yet your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” The desire Eve would have toward Adam is not a good kind of desire but a desire to conquer or overcome. You can see this in Genesis 4:7 where the same word describes what sin would do to Cain: “Sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it” [emphasis added].

From that time on, one of the expressions of sin in women would be the tendency to break out of God’s intended supporting and following role. At the same time, men’s sinful tendency would be to neglect their responsibility to love and lead their wives, dominating them instead. God’s perfect plan can be implemented and enjoyed in marriages and churches only when sinners receive new hearts of humility and obedience. It is only when men and women submit to God’s way that they will experience the greatest blessing.

The differing roles of men and women in marriage and the church should not lead us to believe there is any kind of inequality personally or spiritually between the genders. In the Word of God the principles of gender equality and women’s submission exist side by side. Genesis 1:26–27 reads, “Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.’ God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” Men and women are created equally with a likeness to God. They share dominion over all creation and are both commanded to rule over it.

The second chapter of Genesis contains a more detailed recounting of the creation of Adam and Eve in which we see the divinely ordained functional ordering of leadership and submission between man and woman. Adam was created first (2:7), and Eve was created later in order to be a complement and helper to him (2:20–23). It is this creation order Paul mentions to support God’s intention for male leadership in the church (1 Timothy 2:13). This is the reason why the roles of pastors and elders are limited to men in the church.

(staff edit)

 

[RamiC]

The sudden, dramatic deaths of Ananias and Sapphira served to purify and warn the church. Right away, in the church’s infancy, God made it plain that hypocrisy and dissimulation were not going to be tolerated, and His judgment of Ananias and Sapphira helped guard the church against future pretense. God laid the bodies of Ananias and Sapphira in the path of every hypocrite who would seek to enter the church.

I find it interesting that you quote a married couple here, both of them lied to the church, both had the same consequence, there is no gender difference mentioned.

Hypocrites enter church all the time, the rest of the church are not protected by the immediate sudden death of of every liar who tries to come in.

 

[Rose_bud]

Also what's interesting in Acts is the progression of the persecution of the preachers and teachers of God's word. At first they are merely mocked (Acts 2). Later they are arrested and questioned by the Sanhedrin(Acts 4).Thereafter they are beaten (Acts 5). Finally as with Stephen they are killed by the religious mob. But with each subsequent attempt to stop them the Church continued to grow, and with each point of opposition they are taken to prayer and thankfulness that they are deemed worthy to be treated with contempt and ridiculed like their Lord. Be encouraged (especially women) carry on preaching and teaching the gospel of our Lord and Saviour, their will always be opposition even amongst Gods own. But we are indeed surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses.

 

[stevevw]

We could mention the elephant in the room. When you look through bible what we see is predominately males who are put in the roles as prophets and disciples. Yes women were prophets but I don't think disciples. Jesus had women within His group. But it was the diciples who were the inner group that Jesus was teaching about spreading the gospel. The same with Paul.

Why is that. Is this just an anomely from one perspective. If this was applied to anything else like say an organisation or government people would be objecting this was gender bias and the Patriarchy.

Why did God use predominately males and not the 50/50 equal split as progressives demand. They would even go as far as saying that God oppressive to women. But is that the case or was there some other reason.

 

[Paidiske]

Yes women were prophets but I don't think disciples.

That's a tenuous claim. Mary of Bethany sat at Jesus' feet, in the place of a disciple. The word is clearly used of a bigger group than just the twelve; in at least one place, on Palm Sunday, the gospel refers to the disciples as a "multitude." (Luke 19:37). And while I can't find an example of the word disciple being used explicitly of a woman in the gospels, in Acts 6 it is clear that the word disciples is used of a group that includes widows.

God calls women alongside men. And when we're allowed to freely answer that call, it's not predominantly males who respond.

 

[RamiC]

So, here’s what we often miss about the women disciples of Jesus. They’re everywhere. First of all, the Gospels give us the names of several women who were following Jesus around [that’s what it means to be a “disciple”, by the way; it’s a “follower”], - Click on text in blue for more (warning, very progressive opinion).

Did Jesus have female disciples? Yes, he absolutely did. The women Luke mentions in Luke 8:1–3 are among “those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word” - this one is The Gospel Coalition, and explains the difference between "apostle" and "disciple".

 

[Rose_bud]

We could mention the elephant in the room. When you look through bible what we see is predominately males who are put in the roles as prophets and disciples. Yes women were prophets but I don't think disciples. Jesus had women within His group. But it was the diciples who were the inner group that Jesus was teaching about spreading the gospel. The same with Paul.

Jesus had both male and female disciples. A disciple is one who is taught a by a certain Rabbi and adopts the teachers way of life.

Those present who received the Spirit on the day of Pentecost were not only men. The Spirit is given to transform and empower the person to live and do what God requires, also the power, courage, wisdom and gift to preach the gospel.

Why is that. Is this just an anomely from one perspective. If this was applied to anything else like say an organisation or government people would be objecting this was gender bias and the Patriarchy.

It's not an anomaly. Women are taught of God and empowered by Him, to live a life He calls them too. The Bible does not tell us everything only enough so we may discern what is of vital importance. If it told us everything there wouldn't be enough books.

Why did God use predominately males and not the 50/50 equal split as progressives demand. They would even go as far as saying that God oppressive to women. But is that the case or was there some other reason.

This is why context is important, which has been reiterated throughout this thread. I thought you understood this by your post #268??

 

[stevevw]

That's a tenuous claim. Mary of Bethany sat at Jesus' feet, in the place of a disciple. The word is clearly used of a bigger group than just the twelve; in at least one place, on Palm Sunday, the gospel refers to the disciples as a "multitude." (Luke 19:37). And while I can't find an example of the word disciple being used explicitly of a woman in the gospels, in Acts 6 it is clear that the word disciples is used of a group that includes widows.

God calls women alongside men. And when we're allowed to freely answer that call, it's not predominantly males who respond.

Hi Paidiske. Ok so women were also diciples. But it still doesn't explain why the predominance of men. Was there anything to why God primarily used men as prophets and Jesus used men as disciples including the writing of the gospels and Pauls letters to the early church.

Was there some male domination going on. Or was there a reason why males were chosen for these roles.

 

[Paidiske]

But it still doesn't explain why the predominance of men.

Amongst those whose names are recorded. Although there were many women mentioned as well. Mary Magdalene, Mary and Martha of Bethany, Salome, Joanna, Susanna... And many women as prophets in both testaments.

I don't think there was necessarily a predominance of men at all. And at certain times - such as at the foot of the cross - it was the women who were there, not the men.