Will the Beast rise from the sea on February 23, 2021?

[parousia70]

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come

Was the Gospel preached to all nations in 70 AD? Was Jesus lying when he said this?

Was the Holy Spirit Lying when He inspired Paul to testify it WAS preached to "all the world", "All Nations", and indeed "every creature under heaven", by the Late 60's AD?:

Colossians 1:5-6 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

In Matthew 24:14, the Greek word for preached is kerusso, it is in the future tense. But in Colossians 1:23the same word kerusso is in the aorist tense (past). Jesus said that it is to be preached and Paul says in AD 62, that it has been preached to every creature. Paul also said that the faith of the Romans was spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Paul said that the gospel was made known to all nations.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith;

Men from every nation heard Peter preach the gospel (Acts 2:5,9-11,14); and Peter said it was published throughout Judaea (Acts 10:37, 1 Pet.4:6). Paul says he fully preached the gospel (Romans 15:19; 16:19), and it appeared to all men (Titus 2:11.), and it was preached and believed on in the world (1 Timothy 3:16). Hebrews 4:2 says the gospel was preached.

Many today say that the gospel has not been preached to all the world and Matthew 24:14 has not yet been fulfilled. In Contrast, The Bible says that all the nations of the world heard the gospel preached before AD 70.

Who are you going to believe?

Any view that requires the believer to flat out DENY so much clear, specific, inspired scriptural testimony (as yours appears to do) ought be rejected outright by any honest Bible expositor.

To deny that Matthew 24:14 has been fulfilled is to deny the clear statements of God's Holy Word; it is to call God a liar.

 

[wisdompersonified]

Was the Holy Spirit Lying when He inspired Paul to testify it WAS preached to "all the world", "All Nations", and indeed "every creature under heaven", by the Late 60's AD?:

Colossians 1:5-6 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

In Matthew 24:14, the Greek word for preached is kerusso, it is in the future tense. But in Colossians 1:23the same word kerusso is in the aorist tense (past). Jesus said that it is to be preached and Paul says in AD 62, that it has been preached to every creature. Paul also said that the faith of the Romans was spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Paul said that the gospel was made known to all nations.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith;

Men from every nation heard Peter preach the gospel (Acts 2:5,9-11,14); and Peter said it was published throughout Judaea (Acts 10:37, 1 Pet.4:6). Paul says he fully preached the gospel (Romans 15:19; 16:19), and it appeared to all men (Titus 2:11.), and it was preached and believed on in the world (1 Timothy 3:16). Hebrews 4:2 says the gospel was preached.

Many today say that the gospel has not been preached to all the world and Matthew 24:14 has not yet been fulfilled. In Contrast, The Bible says that all the nations of the world heard the gospel preached before AD 70.

Who are you going to believe?

Any view that requires the believer to flat out DENY so much clear, specific, inspired scriptural testimony (as yours appears to do) ought be rejected outright by any honest Bible expositor.

To deny that Matthew 24:14 has been fulfilled is to deny the clear statements of God's Holy Word; it is to call God a liar.

Again, this is you trying to fit scripture into your belief.

The Apostles and followers of Christ acted as if Christs return was imminent. They were prepared for Christ's return as we should be. They were prepared for his return as every Christian should be.

But nowhere did Christ say the Gospel will be preached everywhere by 62 A.D. By your own admission, you say Christ said this will happen in the future. You said:

In Matthew 24:14, the Greek word for preached is kerusso, it is in the future tense. But in Colossians 1:23the same word kerusso is in the aorist tense (past). Jesus said that it is to be preached and Paul says in AD 62, that it has been preached to every creature. Paul also said that the faith of the Romans was spoken of throughout the whole world.

These are your words!

Jesus said it would happen in the future. Paul was just prepared for the imminent return of Christ as he should have been.

This doesn't mean the scripture was preached to every creature under Heaven. If Paul meant this in the literal sense, why did Paul continue to Preach the Gospel?

If it's already preached to every creature under Heaven then who's left to preach the Gospel to?

If the Gospel has been preached to every creature under Heaven, why did the followers of Christ continue to preach the Gospel after Paul's death? Why didn't they all just stop preaching and say Paul said the Gospel is preached to every creature under Heaven so there's nobody to preach to?

Paul believed this because he believed in the imminent return of Christ as every Christian should.

Paul couldn't have known this because it says no man knows the hour.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

If Paul knew the Gospel was preached to every creature under Heaven then he would know only something the Father knows.

So you act like the return of Christ is imminent and you preach as though he's returning tomorrow. The Bible says be prepared. But if Paul thought the Gospel was preached to every creature under Heaven why did he continue to preach?

You're trying to fit things into your belief that has nothing to do with scripture.

Only the Father knows when the Gospel will be preached to all nations and Jesus will return but we as Christians have to act like it's the next day. Christ didn't say this will happen in 62 A.D. or 79 A.D. or 1979 or 2019. He said it will happen in the future as you pointed out.

Let me repeat WHAT YOU SAID:

In Matthew 24:14, the Greek word for preached is kerusso, it is in the future tense. But in Colossians 1:23the same word kerusso is in the aorist tense (past). Jesus said that it is to be preached and Paul says in AD 62, that it has been preached to every creature. Paul also said that the faith of the Romans was spoken of throughout the whole world.

So are you going by what Jesus said or what Paul said?

Paul was being a good Christian and he was prepared for the return of Christ at any hour as we all should be, but Christ said it will happen in the future and no man knoweth the hour but the Father.

 

[parousia70]

Again, this is you trying to fit scripture into your belief.

Rather, it's me reading the scripture plainly and accepting it as written, as the truth.

The Apostles and followers of Christ acted as if Christs return was imminent. They were prepared for Christ's return

Why Did they believe that?
And how could they have been so wrong??
What else do you believe the apostles got wrong??
Why do you believe they believed and taught such a demonstrable falsehood?
What else do you believe was false that they believed and taught?

You said:

In Matthew 24:14, the Greek word for preached is kerusso, it is in the future tense. But in Colossians 1:23the same word kerusso is in the aorist tense (past). Jesus said that it is to be preached and Paul says in AD 62, that it has been preached to every creature. Paul also said that the faith of the Romans was spoken of throughout the whole world.

These are your words!

You are free to Demonstrate how they are incorrect.
So far you have not done so.

This doesn't mean the scripture was preached to every creature under Heaven. If Paul meant this in the literal sense, why did Paul continue to Preach the Gospel?

It's called the EVERLASTING GOSPEL for a Reason!
It's SOLE purpose, which is to be preached to sinners on earth, never ceases.

If it's already preached to every creature under Heaven then who's left to preach the Gospel to?

And in your scenario, in some future where this gets fulfilled in your view, what about the babies born the second after it happens? about 5 Babies are born every second globally these days... How does that fact fit into your view?
Is there then no need for those babies to hear the gospel, because it's already been preached to everyone else??
Where is that taught?

If Paul knew the Gospel was preached to every creature under Heaven then he would know only something the Father knows.

So Paul, and therefore the Holy Spirit who inspired him, was lying when he said:

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

You're trying to fit things into your belief that has nothing to do with scripture.

Yet, you are clearly the only one saying the above scripture can not be true because it doesn't fit into your belief.
Weird.

Only the Father knows when the Gospel will be preached to all nations and Jesus will return but we as Christians have to act like it's the next day.

Why do we have to act like it? What happens if we don't?
What happened to all the Christians from all the generations prior to ours who lived and died but didn't act like it was the next day?
Are they not saved?

Christ didn't say this will happen in 62 A.D. or 79 A.D. or 1979 or 2019. He said it will happen in the future as you pointed out.

Wasn't AD 62 "the future" from when Jesus said "The gospel will be preached to all nations"?
Was AD 62 "the Future" from the AD 30's?

Yes or No?

Let me repeat WHAT YOU SAID:

In Matthew 24:14, the Greek word for preached is kerusso, it is in the future tense. But in Colossians 1:23the same word kerusso is in the aorist tense (past). Jesus said that it is to be preached and Paul says in AD 62, that it has been preached to every creature. Paul also said that the faith of the Romans was spoken of throughout the whole world.

So are you going by what Jesus said or what Paul said?

Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit to make the claim. Jesus, the Holy spirit and the Father are EQUAL.

Are you denying the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write the truth?

 

[wisdompersonified]

Rather, it's me reading the scripture plainly and accepting it as written, as the truth.



Why Did they believe that?
And how could they have been so wrong??
What else do you believe the apostles got wrong??
Why do you believe they believed and taught such a demonstrable falsehood?
What else do you believe was false that they believed and taught?



You are free to Demonstrate how they are incorrect.
So far you have not done so.



It's called the EVERLASTING GOSPEL for a Reason!
It's SOLE purpose, which is to be preached to sinners on earth, never ceases.



And in your scenario, in some future where this gets fulfilled in your view, what about the babies born the second after it happens? about 5 Babies are born every second globally these days... How does that fact fit into your view?
Is there then no need for those babies to hear the gospel, because it's already been preached to everyone else??
Where is that taught?


So Paul, and therefore the Holy Spirit who inspired him, was lying when he said:

Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.


Yet, you are clearly the only one saying the above scripture can not be true because it doesn't fit into your belief.
Weird.


Why do we have to act like it? What happens if we don't?
What happened to all the Christians from all the generations prior to ours who lived and died but didn't act like it was the next day?
Are they not saved?

Christ didn't say this will happen in 62 A.D. or 79 A.D. or 1979 or 2019. He said it will happen in the future as you pointed out.

Wasn't AD 62 "the future" from when Jesus said "The gospel will be preached to all nations"?
Was AD 62 "the Future" from the AD 30's?

Yes or No?



Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit to make the claim. Jesus, the Holy spirit and the Father are EQUAL.

Are you denying the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write the truth?

What??

Again I ask. If the Gospel was preached to every creature under Heaven why did Paul and other Christian followers still preach the Gospel?

This is something they can't know because only God the Father knows the hour. Every Christian is supposed to be prepared for the return of Christ at any hour.

You're taking what Paul said as literal because you want to support your belief not the scriptures.

Again I ask:

If the Gospel was preached to every creature under Heaven why did Paul and other Christian followers still preach the Gospel?

Of course you will not answer this because it gets in the way of a Preterist belief that makes no sense.

I've noticed in your post you didn't answer the basic question.

There's scripture which shows the followers of Christ at that time thought the return of Christ was imminent. This doesn't mean that it was but we're supposed to be prepared as Christians that it could happen at any hour. Jesus said:

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

AGAIN IT SAYS:

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Paul was being a good Christian and he was prepared for the Lord's imminent return. You're twisting Paul's imminence for the return of Christ into "every creature under Heaven" was preached to before 62 A.D.

You have to see how illogical you sound.

Paul still preached the Gospel after 62 A.D. Christians still preached the Gospel after 62 A.D.

Answer this? Do you think Paul and other people still preached after 62 A.D.?

If you answer yes, then you understand Paul was preparing for the imminent return of Christ like many Christians were. If you answer no, then you're just being illogical to support a Preterist belief that has no basis in scripture.

Of course you will not answer and that means you're being dishonest.

 

[parousia70]

What??

Again I ask. If the Gospel was preached to every creature under Heaven why did Paul and other Christian followers still preach the Gospel?

You're taking what Paul said as literal because you want to support your belief not the scriptures.

Again, you are the one claiming this scripture does not mean what it says.

So... the onus is on you to demonstrate what it DOES mean, if not what it says.

Here it is again:
Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Why don't you tell us what this scripture DOES mean, if you can.

What did Paul (and therefore the Holy Spirit) mean when he said the Gospel "was preached to every creature under heaven"... You keep acting as if Paul (and therefore the Holy Spirit) said no such thing... however, there it is in Black and White.

Tell what Colossians 1:23 means... or, is it your contention it has no discernible meaning and therefore should be redacted from our Bibles and tossed out?

 

[wisdompersonified]

Again, you are the one claiming this scripture does not mean what it says.

So... the onus is on you to demonstrate what it DOES mean, if not what it says.

Here it is again:
Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Why don't you tell us what this scripture DOES mean, if you can.

What did Paul (and therefore the Holy Spirit) mean when he said the Gospel "was preached to every creature under heaven"... You keep acting as if Paul (and therefore the Holy Spirit) said no such thing... however, there it is in Black and White.

Tell what Colossians 1:23 means... or, is it your contention it has no discernible meaning and therefore should be redacted from our Bibles and tossed out?

I knew you would dod the question because you can't answer it. I have to say, it's not right to twist the scripture to fit some Preterist belief. I asked a simple question.

Answer this? Do you think Paul and other people still preached after 62 A.D.?

If you answer yes, then you understand Paul was preparing for the imminent return of Christ like many Christians were. If you answer no, then you're just being illogical to support a Preterist belief that has no basis in scripture.

I will answer your question again but you will not answer mine. You said:

What did Paul (and therefore the Holy Spirit) mean when he said the Gospel "was preached to every creature under heaven"... You keep acting as if Paul (and therefore the Holy Spirit) said no such thing... however, there it is in Black and White.

Again, Paul like many Christians during that time believed that the return of Christ was imminent. When you read scripture you will see things like the return of Christ is at hand.

This was the correct thing to do because Jesus said we don't know the day or the hour of his return.

If I talk to someone about the Gospel, when I'm done I would have to say the same thing as Paul. I would say the Gospel has been preached to every creature under Heaven and I will have to believe the Christ could return at any moment after that.

There's no way Paul or I or any Christian can know if the last person they preached the Gospel to is the time the Father will know the Gospel has been preached to every creature under Heaven. This is why you get up the next day and preach the Gospel again.

Did Paul stop preaching the Gospel in 62 A.D.? Did Christians stop preaching the Gospel after Paul's death because Paul said the Gospel has been preached to every creature under heaven?

You're the only one twisting scriptures to fit your Preterist belief. The Ancients understood Paul was talking about the imminent return of Christ and this why they kept preaching the Gospel after Paul's death.

Now, I answered your question will you be honest and answer mine?

Answer this? Do you think Paul and other people still preached after 62 A.D.?

If you answer yes, then you understand Paul was preparing for the imminent return of Christ like many Christians were. If you answer no, then you're just being illogical to support a Preterist belief that has no basis in scripture.

 

[parousia70]

I knew you would dod the question because you can't answer it. I have to say, it's not right to twist the scripture to fit some Preterist belief. I asked a simple question.

Answer this? Do you think Paul and other people still preached after 62 A.D.?

If you answer yes, then you understand Paul was preparing for the imminent return of Christ like many Christians were. If you answer no, then you're just being illogical to support a Preterist belief that has no basis in scripture.

Asked and Answered. perhaps you just didn't like my answer, but to claim I'm dodging the question is disingenuous at best, and an outright lie at worst.
I'm happy to re-answer tho:
Yes, he continued to preach the EVERLASTING GOSPEL, because IT'S EVERLASTING!!
There can be NO TERMINUS to the purpose of the EVERLASTING GOSPEL... You do know this, right?
The Gospel, which SOLE PURPOSE is to be preached to Sinners on earth, HAS NO END.
It's called the EVERLASTING GOSPEL for a reason! (Revelation 14:6)

Again, Paul like many Christians during that time believed that the return of Christ was imminent. When you read scripture you will see things like the return of Christ is at hand.

Yet you believe they were 100% mistaken in this belief. 100% in error.

What else do you believe the apostles got wrong, and in turn taught the error to their flocks?
If you believe and profess that they could have been so wrong about something as crucial and important as the timing of His return (none claimed to know the day or hour, but as YOU AGREE, they all claimed to know it was at hand), then How can you claim any sort of certainty in ANYTHING ELSE they taught?

I can not abide in a doctrine that relies on APOSTOLIC ERROR, they way your doctrine insists I do.

This was the correct thing to do because Jesus said we don't know the day or the hour of his return.

Yet He gave His apostles signs to watch for so they could know when it was NEAR, compared to when it was NOT near:

"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."
Matthew 24:33

The apostles knew, because Jesus taught them, that All these things "NOT YET SEEN" = Coming NOT YET NEAR

Jesus said that ONLY WHEN "All these things" were SEEN, would his coming be NEAR. Not before.

There's no way Paul or I or any Christian can know if the last person they preached the Gospel to is the time the Father will know the Gospel has been preached to every creature under Heaven.

Don't you think Paul Knew this? Do you know something about it that Paul Didn't?

If Paul KNEW there is no way he could KNOW when the Gospel had been preached to all the world, every Creature, & all nations, wouldn't he also KNOW not to preach and teach that it positively HAD been?

Again, what else do you believe Paul taught that was the EXACT OPPOSITE of What he KNEW?

Finally, You don't believe in a LITERAL interpretation of Matt 24:14, do you?:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Matthew 24:14

What I gather from your response is that you don't believe Jesus was meaning "all the world" LITERALLY here. Because even you believe that when this gets "fulfilled" in some fashion in the future, there will still be human beings alive who have not heard the Gospel.

So I'm unclear as to the nature of your objection?
Why is it perfectly fine for you NOT to take Matthew 24:14 Literally, but NOT OK for anyone else to do so?

 

[wisdompersonified]

Asked and Answered. perhaps you just didn't like my answer, but to claim I'm dodging the question is disingenuous at best, and an outright lie at worst.
I'm happy to re-answer tho:
Yes, he continued to preach the EVERLASTING GOSPEL, because IT'S EVERLASTING!!
There can be NO TERMINUS to the purpose of the EVERLASTING GOSPEL... You do know this, right?
The Gospel, which SOLE PURPOSE is to be preached to Sinners on earth, HAS NO END.
It's called the EVERLASTING GOSPEL for a reason! (Revelation 14:6)



Yet you believe they were 100% mistaken in this belief. 100% in error.

What else do you believe the apostles got wrong, and in turn taught the error to their flocks?
If you believe and profess that they could have been so wrong about something as crucial and important as the timing of His return (none claimed to know the day or hour, but as YOU AGREE, they all claimed to know it was at hand), then How can you claim any sort of certainty in ANYTHING ELSE they taught?

I can not abide in a doctrine that relies on APOSTOLIC ERROR, they way your doctrine insists I do.



Yet He gave His apostles signs to watch for so they could know when it was NEAR, compared to when it was NOT near:

"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."
Matthew 24:33

The apostles knew, because Jesus taught them, that All these things "NOT YET SEEN" = Coming NOT YET NEAR

Jesus said that ONLY WHEN "All these things" were SEEN, would his coming be NEAR. Not before.



Don't you think Paul Knew this? Do you know something about it that Paul Didn't?

If Paul KNEW there is no way he could KNOW when the Gospel had been preached to all the world, every Creature, & all nations, wouldn't he also KNOW not to preach and teach that it positively HAD been?

Again, what else do you believe Paul taught that was the EXACT OPPOSITE of What he KNEW?

Finally, You don't believe in a LITERAL interpretation of Matt 24:14, do you?:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Matthew 24:14

What I gather from your response is that you don't believe Jesus was meaning "all the world" LITERALLY here. Because even you believe that when this gets "fulfilled" in some fashion in the future, there will still be human beings alive who have not heard the Gospel.

So I'm unclear as to the nature of your objection?
Why is it perfectly fine for you NOT to take Matthew 24:14 Literally, but NOT OK for anyone else to do so?

First off, this needs to stop. It has nothing to do with the thread and it has everything to do with you trying to protect some Preterist belief that isn't based on scripture.

Everyone reading this knows this is about Paul's belief in the imminent return of Christ and you know this. You're being obtuse because of Preterism not scripture. You just said Paul continued to preach the Gospel even after he said the Gospel was preached to every creature under Heaven.

How could Paul or any man know this? You have to believe it as a Christian because Christ said he could return at any hour and only the Father knows when this will be. You said:

What I gather from your response is that you don't believe Jesus was meaning "all the world" LITERALLY here. Because even you believe that when this gets "fulfilled" in some fashion in the future, there will still be human beings alive who have not heard the Gospel.

Again, I have know way of knowing if there's still human beings today, at this moment who have not heard the Gospel and Paul didn't know either but he had to believe it just like I do.

If I don't believe it, then I'm saying Jesus can't return at any hour.

Let me repeat that:

If I don't believe it, then I'm saying Jesus can't return at any hour.

Only the Father knows the hour. If someone could know the Gospel hasn't been preached to every creature under Heaven, then they can say that Christ can't return in the next hour and the return of Christ isn't imminent.

So as I sit here typing, I believe Christ can return in the next hour therefore I believe the Gospel has been preached to every creature under Heaven at this moment. Does this mean I will not spread the Gospel anymore? No, it means as a man I understand that I can't know this only the Father can know this but I believe in the imminent return of Christ as did Paul.

Here's another question:

Do you believe that Christ can return in the next hour?

If you believe he can return at any hour, then you have to say at this moment, the Gospel has been preached to every creature under Heaven while in the next moment still preaching the Gospel.

Here's an example.

I can say, the Gospel hasn't been preached throughout the world, therefore the end isn't coming but how can I know this? How can I dare try to put my limited knowledge in the place of an all knowing God?

While I was sleep, a place that I thought the Gospel wasn't preached when I went to bed was preached to by Missionaries.

At that moment, the Gospel has been preached to every creature under Heaven. Now, I can't know this in the literal sense but I have to believe it because Christ said he can return at any hour.

Again, I don't know if you're being purposley dishonest or if you're just blinded by some preterist belief.

Did the Apostles have all of the answers? No and this is why they still had debates. If they had perfect knowledge of all things why did they still debate these issues?

No man was perfect except Christ(Christ was fully human and fully God). Paul understood this. Paul said:

1 Corinthians 3

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Here's Paul debating with Peter. Why did Paul and Peter have debates, if they had perfect knowledge of all things?

Galatians 2

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

You said this:

Yet you believe they were 100% mistaken in this belief. 100% in error.

Who was 100% wrong and 100% right in this debate? Paul or Peter?

When you talk about 100% wrong or right, you're talking about perfect knowledge. Only the Father can have perfect knowledge of the return of Christ. Jesus said:

Matthew 24

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

So how can any man or woman have 100% knowledge when the Gospel is preached to every creature under Heaven? We have to believe it as Christians at every moment though if we believe in the imminent return of Christ at any hour.

 

[parousia70]

First off, this needs to stop.

If you truly feel that way You are free to stop responding. No one is forcing you to continue. You have the power all by yourself to make it stop. You don't need my help.

Again, I have know way of knowing if there's still human beings today, at this moment who have not heard the Gospel

Poppycock.

You and I both know for a fact that the 350,000 + Human beings that will be born on earth today alone (and every day), Have not heard the gospel. Don't be obtuse.
This fact alone proves you don't take Matthew 24:14 Literally.

If I don't believe it, then I'm saying Jesus can't return at any hour.

If he could, then 1948, Computer Chips, Cashless society, One world Government, the EU, Nuclear weapons, etc... are IMPOSSIBLE doctrines that Jesus and the apostles knew NOTHING about and are not found in scripture anywhere.

Also, Scripture testifies it's not an event that could happen "any hour" but only happens on one specific day, already appointed and FIXED in time from the foundation of the world.. it's not a moving target based on the whims of God or the actions of Men.

Acts 17:31
31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

Let me repeat that:

If I don't believe it, then I'm saying Jesus can't return at any hour.

Then You'd be correct. He Can't.
As demonstrated, The timing of His return was IMMOVABLY FIXED, and cannot be changed, even By God.

Do you believe that Christ can return in the next hour?

No. Of course not. But I absolutely Believe I could be brought to his feet in the next hour, via heart attack, hit by a bus, brain aneurysm, you name it... So I am fully prepared to Meet him at any moment.

Matthew 24

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

So how can any man or woman have 100% knowledge when the Gospel is preached to every creature under Heaven?

Again, if we can't have 100% knowledge of it, then Paul should have known not to preach it as being 100% true, right? why was Paul so blatantly wrong? what else did he get Wrong? Was He wrong about Grace through Faith? Was he wrong about the Resurrection? How can we know?

We have to believe it as Christians at every moment though if we believe in the imminent return of Christ at any hour.

Why?
What happens if we don't?
What happened to all the Christians who lived and died in the past 2000 years who DIDN'T live that way?
Is it your contention they are not saved because they did not lives their lives expecting his return could be at any moment?

 

[wisdompersonified]

If you truly feel that way You are free to stop responding. No one is forcing you to continue. You have the power all by yourself to make it stop. You don't need my help.


Poppycock.

You and I both know for a fact that the 350,000 + Human beings that will be born on earth today alone (and every day), Have not heard the gospel. Don't be obtuse.
This fact alone proves you don't take Matthew 24:14 Literally.



If he could, then 1948, Computer Chips, Cashless society, One world Government, the EU, Nuclear weapons, etc... are IMPOSSIBLE doctrines that Jesus and the apostles knew NOTHING about and are not found in scripture anywhere.

Also, Scripture testifies it's not an event that could happen "any hour" but only happens on one specific day, already appointed and FIXED in time from the foundation of the world.. it's not a moving target based on the whims of God or the actions of Men.

Acts 17:31
31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”



Then You'd be correct. He Can't.
As demonstrated, The timing of His return was IMMOVABLY FIXED, and cannot be changed, even By God.



No. Of course not. But I absolutely Believe I could be brought to his feet in the next hour, via heart attack, hit by a bus, brain aneurysm, you name it... So I am fully prepared to Meet him at any moment.



Again, if we can't have 100% knowledge of it, then Paul should have known not to preach it as being 100% true, right? why was Paul so blatantly wrong? what else did he get Wrong? Was He wrong about Grace through Faith? Was he wrong about the Resurrection? How can we know?



Why?
What happens if we don't?
What happened to all the Christians who lived and died in the past 2000 years who DIDN'T live that way?
Is it your contention they are not saved because they did not lives their lives expecting his return could be at any moment?

Wow! You said:

You and I both know for a fact that the 350,000 + Human beings that will be born on earth today alone (and every day), Have not heard the gospel. Don't be obtuse.

How do you know they haven't heard the Gospel? Are you saying God can't reach who He wants to reach at any moment?

WHO ARE YOU TO LIMIT GOD? HOW DARE YOU?

Are you saying God can't communicate with babies? Are you saying God's communication is limited?

When is God allowed to reach humans? Does God have to wait until a baby turns 8? 12? 16?

Tell us, since you know more than God, when is God allowed to communicate with humans? At what age can God do this?

The hubris of some Preterists is disgusting!

You said:

No. Of course not. But I absolutely Believe I could be brought to his feet in the next hour, via heart attack, hit by a bus, brain aneurysm, you name it... So I am fully prepared to Meet him at any moment.

This was your response when I asked can Jesus return in the next hour. Jesus said this:

Matthew 24

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Also:

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh

All I can say is wow! The hubris of Preterist can sadly send people to the lake of fire. Thank God it's a minority view. It has no basis in scripture.

Again, Paul believed the return of Christ was imminent as he should.

It's sad to see how you mock God and limit what he can or can't do based on your limited understanding. You said:

Then You'd be correct. He Can't.
As demonstrated, The timing of His return was IMMOVABLY FIXED, and cannot be changed, even By God.

Now you're calling Jesus a liar. This whole post is just a disgusting display.

It's sad, when people are losing a debate, they can't just learn and grow, you now have to claim you know more than God and you're trying to limit God's power for your twisted Preterist belief. You even are calling Jesus a liar.

Jesus tells Christians to be prepared because his return will be like the days of Noah. The Bible says:

Mark 13

35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

But you're saying HE CAN'T and you know God's timing. You're saying Jesus was lying to us when he said be prepared because he can come at any hour?

I don't know the hour and I don't know how it will happen. We can debate these issues and debate when it will happen and how it will unfold but at the end of the day, only God knows.

Will Jesus return be started by his appearance in the sky then the Rapture of Christians before the tribulation? Will his return occur after the tribulation period?

We can debate these things but only God knows.

This is why Preterism is so dangerous. It will send people to the lake of fire because people will end up accepting the mark of the beast because they're under the misguided belief that all of these things in scripture has already happened.

Tell me, when did these things occur in history:

When did the beast from the earth cause fire to fall from the sky?

Who is the beast from the earth?

When did the beast from the earth make people take the mark of the beast?

What exactly was the mark on their hand and forehead?

When did one of the heads of the beast from the sea get a deadly wound?

Who were the 7 heads with the name of blasphemy?

When was the man of sin revealed and when did this happen and who was he?

Who were the two witnesses?

When did the two witnesses lie dead in the street and how did the world see them dead in the street and how did they send each other gifts in 3 days?

Who is Mystery Babylon?

Who was the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit and when did he go into perdition?

When was satan, the beast and the false prophet thrown into the lake of fire?

When did the beast from the earth stop all great and poor from buying and selling without the mark?

Who were the four horsemen and when were they released?

Disgusting on every level. How dare you try to limit God's power based on your limited understanding?

 

[wisdompersonified]

double post

 

[parousia70]

double post

As soon as you answer the question you've been avoiding, I'll happily answer your litany of questions.

You said:

We have to believe it as Christians at every moment though if we believe in the imminent return of Christ at any hour.

And I asked:
Why?
What happens if we don't?
What happened to all the Christians who lived and died in the past 2000 years who DIDN'T live that way?
Is it your contention they are not saved because they did not lives their lives expecting his return could be at any moment?

Here's the truth about EVERY Christian who lived and died between the apostolic generation and our generation:
The ones who did expect His return in their lifetimes were WRONG.
The ones who did NOT expect His return in their lifetimes were CORRECT.

Yet you are saying the ones that got it right... were WRONG to do so??

What kind of backwards logic is that?

Is it your contention that understanding and accepting the CORRECT eschatology is a REQUIREMENT for Salvation?

 

[parousia70]

You're saying Jesus was lying to us when he said be prepared because he can come at any hour?

Nope. But YOU are saying Jesus was LYING to His original Audience when He told them watch for and to expect His return in their lifetime.

You are Saying Jesus Lied to the Church at Sardis when he PROMISED His thief's coming would befall THEM back THEN! (Revelation 3:3)

How sad... this is why Hyper Futurism is so dangerous.
It makes Jesus and the Apostles to be either Mistaken or Lying!!

Again, ANY doctrine such as yours that requires I believe the apostles were in error and in turn taught this Error, will be summarily rejected by me.

 

[wisdompersonified]

As soon as you answer the question you've been avoiding, I'll happily answer your litany of questions.

You said:


And I asked:
Why?
What happens if we don't?
What happened to all the Christians who lived and died in the past 2000 years who DIDN'T live that way?
Is it your contention they are not saved because they did not lives their lives expecting his return could be at any moment?

Here's the truth about EVERY Christian who lived and died between the apostolic generation and our generation:
The ones who did expect His return in their lifetimes were WRONG.
The ones who did NOT expect His return in their lifetimes were CORRECT.

Yet you are saying the ones that got it right... were WRONG to do so??

What kind of backwards logic is that?

Is it your contention that understanding and accepting the CORRECT eschatology is a REQUIREMENT for Salvation?

Again, your post shows that you're trying to debate something I never said because you can't debate the issue. Preterisism is dangerous and wrong. You said:

Is it your contention they are not saved because they did not lives their lives expecting his return could be at any moment?

Where did I ever say if you don't believe that the return of Christ is imminent then you're not saved?

This clearly shows you're all over the place. The oldest tactic in a debate is to try and debate an issue the other person never claimed because you can't defend your postition.

Please quote where I said you can't be saved if you don't accept the imment return of Christ.

You're just making up strawman arguments because you can't defend Preterism.

Answer these questions since you skipped the questions in the last post.

If all of this already happened, who are the Two Witnesses?

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Who exactly were the Two Witnesses?

When did they prophesy for 3 1/2 years? What year did they start and when did it end?

Which men died in the same manner that they tried to hurt the Two Witnesses?

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

When did the Two Witnesses cause it not to rain in the days of their prophesy? What 3 1/2 year period did this happen?

When did the Two Witnesses turn water into blood? Where can I read about this in the history books?

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

When did the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit kill the Two Witnesess? Who was the beast and in what year did he kill the Two Witnesses?

When did the Two Witnesses lie dead in the street?

When and how did the people, kindreds, tongues and nations see their dead bodies lying in the street for 3 1/2 days? What year did this happen and what technology was used that allowed all of their bodies to be seen lying in the street for 3 1/2 days?

When and how did people send each other gifts to each other over 3 1/2 days? Did they have secret planes that we don't know about? Was there a Fedex back then that we don't know about? What year did this happen?

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

When did the Two Witnesses die and then 3 1/2 days later they were alive again? Where can I read about this in the history books?

When did the Two Witnesses ascend up to Heaven in a cloud? What year did this happen?

When did this great earthquake occur? When did the Two Witnesses ascend in a cloud followed by a great earthquake?

You have avoided every question you have been asked while making up things to debate that I never said.

Could you please answer the questions about the Two Witnesses so I can read about these things? I'm sure you have the exact dates and times that these things happened.