Why is the bible "finished"?

[EricGray]

The Bible wasn't written as "the Bible." The books were written either as individual books or small groups of books. But nowhere was it consciously being created as "the Bible."

What happened was that Judaism, and then Christianity, saw certain books to be foundational to their respective theological and spiritual paradigm, and they designated these books in a separate category.

When we look at these books today we have to agree that these books ARE central to what we know as our respective faiths.

Divine providence? Human judgment? Why should these be at odds?

 

[OldStudent]

The Bible wasn't written as "the Bible." The books were written either as individual books or small groups of books. But nowhere was it consciously being created as "the Bible."

What happened was that Judaism, and then Christianity, saw certain books to be foundational to their respective theological and spiritual paradigm, and they designated these books in a separate category.

When we look at these books today we have to agree that these books ARE central to what we know as our respective faiths.

Divine providence? Human judgment? Why should these be at odds?

I have for some time been wondering how to say that. You did it. Thanks.

 

[OldStudent]

Hi friends:

Is there any particular reason to believe the "bible" is a finished book? Why should God stop speaking to us through the prophets and witnesses and not share it through the written word in the present age?

To be honest I feel like I have been naive to believe it all these years. Is it a form of idolatry to believe the bible as it is in its present form is "God's Word" as apposed to everything God actually says - written or otherwise?

Generally when we say "the Bible is complete" we also conclude that God has nothing more to say. But there is really no evidence to support the second clause. If God were to speak again through a designated person would we be expected (perhaps required) to bind the new work into "the Bible?" Not likely. But if God were to provide another download of material we would be foolish to write it off just because it came after 100AD.

Let's set a few things on the table and look them over. Amos notes: "Surely the Lord God does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets" Amos 3:7. Examples: Noah/Flood; Moses/Exodus; Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel around the Babylonian exile; many OT prophets pointing to Jesus, even prophecy pointing to John who introduced Jesus.
In the 1Cor 12:28, 29 and Eph 4:11 passages prophets are included right in there with the other commonly accepted gifts God places in the church. In 1 john 4:1 we read, "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." It is implied that false prophets will attempt to detract from those God will send. If God were done with prophets (having no more to say) beyond "The Bible" we would expect very different language and advice.

Let's think of the statement by Amos. A major highlight of the Bible is the Second Coming of Jesus. Satan would love to detract from that event. Is it likely that there are tricks and traps to be disarmed that earlier generations didn't have to evade? Could it be that there are tools and opportunities never before available God would want to urge us to employ? Is God going to leave us in the most urgent and crucial hand-to-hand combat to be engaged with Satan without guidance and encouragement? If God remains true to His past patterns and promises we do well to keep our eyes open for fresh communication from Him.

The Bible is and remains THE testing document. The Holy Spirit will aid and confirm our evaluation.

 

[toLiJC]

Hi friends:

Is there any particular reason to believe the "bible" is a finished book? Why should God stop speaking to us through the prophets and witnesses and not share it through the written word in the present age?

To be honest I feel like I have been naive to believe it all these years. Is it a form of idolatry to believe the bible as it is in its present form is "God's Word" as apposed to everything God actually says - written or otherwise?

there are still true prophets, preachers, and witnesses of God and Jesus in this world, albeit a small number, but they may turn out difficult to be found (except me in this case who (without boasting) am a kind of Their witness), yet the Bible has already been canonized for the last centuries and even for about 2 millennia, not that additional Holy writings can't be inserted in it, but as far as it is well understandable, i, and probably you can also, think that a thousand pages are enough, for example the orthodox study Bible has about 1700 pages with the 11 additional books of the old testament in it - what to expect if 50 or 100 additional books are inserted in it?!, maybe 2, 3 or 4 thousand pages?!, some people can't read even 100 pages, either out of disinterest or spiritual impotence, let alone 4000, moreover, it would be harder for many worshipers to study the Bible if there were 4 thousand or more pages in it

more important is to receive the Word that comes directly from the mouth of the true Lord God (i.e. the living Word) than to read the Bible (which is the recorded/written word), moreover, no person can understand the Bible right enough if he or she doesn't receive revelation from Him, because there are a lot of (strictly) figurative words and expressions in it (2 Peter 3:15-16)

Blessings

 

[Greg J.]

The study of the subject is huge, and I know practically none of it. Until someone can write a better answer, here's some things to think about.

One of the passages that always pops up when this topic is studied is this:

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19, 1984 NIV)

This passage in Revelation (written by one of the 12 apostles) refers to the Book of Revelation. However because of the way the Holy Spirit revealed God through all of Scripture, is there a principle at work here that applies to the whole Bible?

Speaking of the new Jerusalem (that will come from heaven), John wrote, The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (Revelation 21:14, 1984 NIV)
From this verse I conclude that there will not be any additional apostles (which means messengers) beyond those twelve.

Speaking of "fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household," Paul wrote: built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. (Ephesians 2:20, 1984 NIV)
From this verse I conclude that the foundation of our "house" (in Christ) is built on the apostles and prophets.

Paul was pretty severe when he wrote: I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! (Galatians 1:6-8, 1984 NIV)

As you probably know, Scripture testifies to other parts of Scripture all over the place. For example:

Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:15-16, 1984 NIV)

Also, Jesus believed the Old Testament was accurate down to the use of a verb tense:

He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.” Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!” (Luke 20:38-39, 1984 NIV)

Anything that contradicts anything in the book of Revelation, Paul's gospel, the apostles writings, the prophet's writings, or in fact, the whole Old Testament can't be from God. (Much testimony for the Old Testament comes from Jesus himself, by the way.)

Because the foundation is the 12 apostles with Jesus as the cornerstone, the end of the New Testament can be seen as ending when the last of 12 founding apostles died. The canon was not a bunch of old guys getting together and saying these certain books sound good. Because the church was dispersed so early in its life, there was an effort to collect all the writings of the apostles together.

 

[Razare]

Hi friends:

Is there any particular reason to believe the "bible" is a finished book? Why should God stop speaking to us through the prophets and witnesses and not share it through the written word in the present age?

To be honest I feel like I have been naive to believe it all these years. Is it a form of idolatry to believe the bible as it is in its present form is "God's Word" as apposed to everything God actually says - written or otherwise?

The Bible was finished before anything was made. This is because "the word" or "logos" in the Greek language is Christ himself. (John 1:1)

So when we have a book called the Bible, which let's say is a bad translation from the original... that's not technically "the logos". It's not Jesus himself. It's close. If we read it, and God's spirit comes along to help our understanding, we can receive the logos into our understanding. But what we then receive is not the dead words on the page, but the actual logos from heaven seated at God's right hand.

We receive a part of who Jesus is, into ourselves, and this is life. This is what we worship, not the book, the person, who is God!

Yet how are we going to learn about this person, Jesus? We're going to learn by what he said. And God's spirit enabled men and prophets from all eras to access "the logos" and receive God's revelation of Christ who is the eternal word. The scriptures are authored by 1 God through many men.

And while I think the Bible is a finished document, and I certainly believe no one can enhance Christ or add anything to him, but can you receive additional revelation of "the logos" which agrees 100% with the logos already revealed in the Bible? Yes. God can reveal to us prophecy about our lives, his plan for our lives, events of the future, dreams, ect.

This is all part of God's word, because God's word is what creates each unique human being (Hebrews 11:3 John 1:3). So in Christ dwells all the richness and fullness of God. The scriptures are what assists us in knowing Christ.

And I certainly believe the Bible is God's word (the logos)... but if there is an error in translation, or something like this, it's an error and you always have to seek to understand the intent of God in scripture. That's where the understanding comes by God's spirit, and we can learn of Christ.

 

[ScottA]

Hi friends:

Is there any particular reason to believe the "bible" is a finished book? Why should God stop speaking to us through the prophets and witnesses and not share it through the written word in the present age?

To be honest I feel like I have been naive to believe it all these years. Is it a form of idolatry to believe the bible as it is in its present form is "God's Word" as apposed to everything God actually says - written or otherwise?

Better late than never, I hope.

There is a finite time frame between the beginning and the end: a time, times, and half a time. His word therefore, is not presented forever, but only for a time. The end does come, and 66 books is quite sufficient.

It is not that the gift of prophecy is finished, or that good people of God are not still inspired to write, but the fate of all is already sealed. These are the end times. No more are the things to come foretold, but rather we give witness to that which has already come.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Hi friends:

Is there any particular reason to believe the "bible" is a finished book? Why should God stop speaking to us through the prophets and witnesses and not share it through the written word in the present age?

To be honest I feel like I have been naive to believe it all these years. Is it a form of idolatry to believe the bible as it is in its present form is "God's Word" as apposed to everything God actually says - written or otherwise?

No, I believe the KJV Bible is alive and well; and has an entirely new understanding hidden in the letters of the text, as the apostle Paul has shown us in his demonstration (1 Corinthians 2:7, and 1 Corinthians 2:4).

 

[Kenneth Redden]

No, I believe the KJV Bible is alive and well; and has an entirely new understanding hidden, 1 Corinthians 2:7, in the letters of the text, as the apostle Paul has shown us in his demonstration, 1 Corinthians 2:4.

Today, this fourth day, is the “hidden wisdom”, as it is hidden between verses three and four of the doublet beginning, Psalms 90.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

This depends upon your idea of Scripture. Among Protestants there are two models. I'm not competent to either define or defend the conservative model, so I'm not going to try.

Liberal Protestants tend to see the basic inspiration as being not Scripture but God's work with Israel and Christ. Scripture is than from a practical point of view the only credible primary source information we have about God's acts of revelation.

This view could in principle allow for a revision of the canon, in either of two ways:

* We have additional primary source information about Israel or Christ's life. Suppose we found a fifth Gospel, and we had good reason to think it was historically as close to the original events as the existing 4 Gospels. There's no reason in principle why we couldn't add it. Similarly, if we came to believe that some books (e.g. 2 Peter) are actually forgeries, we might well stop using them.

* We decide that God has revealed himself through new events. In that case the primary source descriptions of those events could function the same as the current Scripture.

While I am open in principle to new revelatory events, I very much doubt it will happen. First, I wouldn't count the kinds of miracles you hear about. To merit consideration, something would need to be pretty major. The NT was, after all, the establishment of the new covenant predicted in the OT. It wasn't just a few miracle healings, but showed a major new phase in God's relationship with us.

The OT always pointed to something like that happening. But I don't think there are further pointers, except to the second coming. And since that will bring us into Christ's presence directly, I don't think we'll need a written Scripture.

But God could certainly do something that we don't expect. One interesting possibility would be that we discover another intelligent species with whom God has been working much as he worked with humanity. I could conceive of a situation where Christians might accept accounts of those events as part of God's revelation. That's the only situation I can think of, but God could have things in store that I can't think of.

Changing the canon is really problematical, because it would be nearly impossible to get agreement. But if there came to be widespread belief among a segment of the Church that some books were essentially as useful in understand God's revelation as the Bible, those books could well be used in the same way as the 66 books, and from a practical point of view function as an extension of the canon for that segment of the Church.

In the ET scenario, we probably wouldn't modify our canon, but might treat their equivalent of the canon as inspired Scripture alongside ours.

We don’t need any more books of the bible, the Lord has already given us His Word. What we need, is to find the message written for us here in the 21st Century.

 

[ac28]

Paul says in Colossians 1:25, "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;"

The word fulfil means fill full and is the same Greek word translated "complete" in Colossians 2:10 and Colossians 4:12. Paul's post-Acts epistles "completed" the Word of God.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Paul says in Colossians 1:25, "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;"

The word fulfil means fill full and is the same Greek word translated "complete" in Colossians 2:10 and Colossians 4:12. Paul's post-Acts epistles "completed" the Word of God.

Yes, I agree. I believe the fourth and last occurrence of, “dispensation,” in Colossians 1:25 KJV, references today, the last fourth day, which is referenced by the third occurrence of, “dispensation”, in Ephesians 3:2 KJV.

I think the Word of God is not about man, primarily; it is record of the days of the Creation, for the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Yes, I agree. I believe the fourth and last occurrence of, “dispensation,” in Colossians 1:25 KJV, references today, the last fourth day, which is referenced by the third occurrence of, “dispensation”, in Ephesians 3:2 KJV.

I think the Word of God is not about man, primarily; it is record of the days of the Creation, for the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

I believe the 21st Century is referenced by the fourth of four occurrences of the word, “dispensation”, in KJV Scripture, Colossians 1:25, and also referenced by the third occurrence of, "dispensation", in Ephesians 3:2 KJV.

 

[ac28]

The word "dispensation" as used in the Bible, is a translation of the Greek word, oikonomia. Strictly speaking, this word has nothing to do with a period of time. It simply means a stewardship, economy, management, arrangement of things, or a scheme. It is possible for more than one dispensation to be going on at the same time.

No Bible prophecy has been fulfilled since AD 70, no matter how much we stretch and warp the scriptures. The formation of the State of Israel is strictly a man-made affair.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

The word "dispensation" as used in the Bible, is a translation of the Greek word, oikonomia. Strictly speaking, this word hasnothing to do with a period of time. It simply means a stewardship, economy, management, arrangement of things, or a scheme. It is possible for more than one dispensation to be going on at the same time.

No Bible prophecy has taken place since AD 70, no matter how much we stretch and warp the scriptures. The formation of the State of Israel is strictly a man-made affair.

You cannot use man’s wisdom to understand Paul’s revelation, 1 Corinthians 2:4, it has nothing to do with Paul’s KJV interpretation.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

You cannot use man’s wisdom to understand Paul’s revelation, 1 Corinthians 2:4, it has nothing to do with Paul’s KJV interpretation.

However, the word "oikonomia"; "In Christianity, one meaning of the term dispensation is as a distinctive arrangement or period in history that forms the framework through which God relates to mankind." Therefore; oikonomia may mean, "universe," in the KJV Bible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensation_(period)

 

[Kenneth Redden]

You cannot use man’s wisdom to understand Paul’s revelation, 1 Corinthians 2:4, it has nothing to do with Paul’s KJV interpretation.

By the way; this dispensation, this Universe, can be called an, "arrangement of things", per your definition.

 

[ac28]

You're right. In Christendom, unlike the Bible, authors use the word dispensation to denote a period of time and they make chronological lists of what they think are all the dispensations. ALL of these lists are 100% subjective and there is no agreement as to what is correct. I've seen lists composed with as many as 15 dispensations and as few as 2. None are right and none are wrong.

Here's my 2 cent list.

(1) When the Giants ruled earth - somewhat less than 2000 years - a little after Gen 1 to the flood
(2) All Israel - 2000 years - From Abraham (Gen 12) to the destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD = a little after Acts 28:28)
(3) All Gentiles - the previous 1954 years and the present - Only in Paul's last 7 books
(4) All Israel - From the tribulation until Satan and his minions are eliminated.
(5) God All in All

 

[GQ Chris]

Prophecy and the Closed Canon, Part 1
excerpt:
Christians on both sides of the charismatic fence must realize a vital truth: God's revelation is complete for now. The canon of Scripture is closed. As the apostle John penned the final words of the last book of the New Testament, he recorded this warning: "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and from the holy city, which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19). Then, the Holy Spirit added a doxology and closed the canon.

When the canon closed on the Old Testament after the time of Ezra and Nehemiah, there followed four hundred "silent years" when no prophet spoke God's revelation in any form.

That silence was broken by John the Baptist as God spoke once more prior to the New Testament age. God then moved various men to record the books of the New Testament, and the last of these was Revelation. By the second century A.D., the complete canon exactly as we have it today was popularly recognized. Church councils in the fourth century verified and made official what the church has universally affirmed, that the sixty-six books in our Bibles are the only true Scripture inspired by God. The canon is complete.

(also read Part 2 & 3)

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Prophecy and the Closed Canon, Part 1
excerpt:
Christians on both sides of the charismatic fence must realize a vital truth: God's revelation is complete for now. The canon of Scripture is closed. As the apostle John penned the final words of the last book of the New Testament, he recorded this warning: "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and from the holy city, which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19). Then, the Holy Spirit added a doxology and closed the canon.

When the canon closed on the Old Testament after the time of Ezra and Nehemiah, there followed four hundred "silent years" when no prophet spoke God's revelation in any form.

That silence was broken by John the Baptist as God spoke once more prior to the New Testament age. God then moved various men to record the books of the New Testament, and the last of these was Revelation. By the second century A.D., the complete canon exactly as we have it today was popularly recognized. Church councils in the fourth century verified and made official what the church has universally affirmed, that the sixty-six books in our Bibles are the only true Scripture inspired by God. The canon is complete.

(also read Part 2 & 3)

Yes, God's revelation is complete; but there are two parts, one for the ancients and one for us today, in the 21st Century. It appears as though contemporary churches are only aware of the first part.
You appear to be speaking from an incorrect perspective, in order to understand the demonstration in 2 Peter 3. We are looking at literary devices, discourse patterns and similarities of text woven into scripture with the truth of the days of the Creation.