Why is Jesus God?

[HomeBound]

Just out of curiosity, why do we Christians say that Jesus is God?

Is it by scripture? if so, which scriptures.

 

[peaceful soul]

Just out of curiosity, why do we Christians say that Jesus is God?

Is it by scripture? if so, which scriptures.

The short answer:
Some see God as one entity with 3 distinct forms: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. ? How can that be? If we allow God to escape from our little box, it is possible. If we suspend our Aristotlian logic, possibilities abound. A can be, not only A, but also B simultaneously. The problem is trying to match God to our limited understanding.

Here is another possible explanation that I have posted on another thread.

Speaking of oneness: Gen 1:26 (KJV) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Correct me if I am wrong, but According to Hebrew, oneness has either a masculine or femnine attribute, where in the Greek, it also has a neuter attribute. Having said this, the point is the term in the above scripture describing God is plural. We therefore see that God has a pluralistic characteristic about Him. This is where almost every human stumbles over, especially, Jews, Muslims and Christians. Here is what I understand about the heavenly debated oneness of God:

Oneness can refer to either a single unit such as 1 car or it could denote a collection of things with a common characteristic, such as in a marriage where husband and wife (two) become as one. It is the latter concept of oneness that describes God. God, by definition, is neither the name of a person nor does it imply a single big boss, which is contrary to what the vast majority of us have either learned or have come to accept. God only refers to a name of character (set of characteristics / attributes) or nature.

And God said, Let us make man in our image,..... Us refers to the 3 entities that make up God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is the oneness expressed in three distinct entities. They are referred to as one, not only because of the meaning of oneness as mentioned above, but additionally by their total and complete unity of purpose. In the godhead, there is one motive, and one motive only! They are all in total agreement with each other. Unlike, a marriage, there is no possibility of dissension and divorce. Only this unity can exist, as you probably have concluded, in God, who has perfect attributes and character. Each entity has pure faith in the other and total trust in the other - unlike us fallen man.

Now, with the above understanding, it is very easy to understand the differences we see in the Bible when we see God, the Father; God, the Son; and God, the Spirit aka Spirit of God or simply, Holy Spirit. Also, Lord, thy God; and Lord Jesus.

We need to remember that God can be whatever He wants and He doesn't need our approval either. Do we really need to care as long as He is faithful to us and to His Word? If we all think about God long enough, we should realize that it is just as wrong to define God as it is to say that He does not exists.

Christians should not be shakey in their faith because they can't explain God. That is part of His uniqueness - defined only by His standards. He gave us enough information to trust Him, to see His great power, and His great love for us. Let that be enough!

No matter how we define God, we minimize Him. We are doing Him an incredible injustice. I don't think there is any dispute on that point.

 

[HomeBound]

And God said, Let us make man in our image,..... Us refers to the 3 entities that make up God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Now we do know that this is an interpretation by man that may not be correct... right?

 

[HomeBound]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jesus come to show us that we too can be at one with God?

We in him as he is in God and God in him...

 

[peaceful soul]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jesus come to show us that we too can be at one with God?

We in him as he is in God and God in him...

When we submit to God by letting Jesus become our intercessor. We then receive the Holy Spirit and God then starts to impute his righteousness in us. As we mature through our trials, we become more Godlike. The Holy Spirit is the link to us being one with God. As long as our mind is centered on God, His Spirit allows us to mesh with Him. When His Spirit comes into us to dwell, He is in us and we are in Him; because we have given ourselves to Him. This is not the best explanation, but you get an idea of what I mean. Perhaps I will post a better explanation later, once I get some rest.

 

[peaceful soul]

Now we do know that this is an interpretation by man that may not be correct... right?

As far as I know, that is how the scripture is originally before translation. Even without that verse, there are plenty of others for illustration.

 

[JudasThomas]

In his lifetime the historical Rabbi Yeshua bar Yosef never once claimed to be the literal son of God or God. His mission was as a messianic prophet in the mold of Eliyah to purify the people of Israel in preparation for the Kingdom of Heaven. It is only as Christianity developed as a separate faith from Judaism that Jesus Christ was scene as a literal son of God and part of the Godhead. The concept of the trinity is not found in any part of the Bible.

 

[peaceful soul]

In his lifetime the historical Rabbi Yeshua bar Yosef never once claimed to be the literal son of God or God. His mission was as a messianic prophet in the mold of Eliyah to purify the people of Israel in preparation for the Kingdom of Heaven. It is only as Christianity developed as a separate faith from Judaism that Jesus Christ was scene as a literal son of God and part of the Godhead. The concept of the trinity is not found in any part of the Bible.

I know there is no such thing as Trinity in Bible. I personally don't subscribe to such a concept to explain God. Like I've said before, I know enough to see that He is trustworthy and that He loves me.

Throughout Bible, Lord is mentioned in many places: Lord, thy God, Lord Jesus.

 

[liveforjesus]

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and beleive in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[revolutio]

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and beleive in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

That sounds like it is saying God and Jesus are two separate entities.

 

[Havoc]

The whole "Jesus is God" thing was decided by committee at the Nicene Council. There was two branches of "truth" at that time but the leader of the "Jesus ain't God" side turned up dead and the others missed the vote. Go figure...

 

[KennySe]

Just out of curiosity, why do we Christians say that Jesus is God?

Is it by scripture? if so, which scriptures.

Hello, Homebound.

Please realize that while you addressed your Opening Post to "we Christians", that this forum is for Christians and non-Christians to discuss and debate topics.

I'm a Christian. Here are some scriptures for you.

First, recall this one at all times.
Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

And here we go.

*****************

Isaiah 42:8 (God says)
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

John 17:5 (Jesus says)
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

***
Who is our Saviour?

Titus 1:3-64 (Inspired by the Holy Spirit, Paul wrote.)
But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour

Titus 3:4-6
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour

***

Isaiah 45:23
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear

Phil. 2:10-11
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

***

Ezekial 34:11 and 12 (God says)
For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

John 10:11-33 (Jesus says)
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one.
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God

***

Who had done great things to this man?

Luke 8:39
"Return to thine own house, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee." And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him.

***

Isaiah 41:4
Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isaiah 48:12
Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Rev. 1:17-18
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

***

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he [the Son]had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him [The Son].
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
And, Thou, Lord [The Son], in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

***

And read The Gospel according to St John, Chapter 1.

God bless you,
Kenny

 

[Doctrine1st]

The word lord in that present day was a standing or a title as alot of different people were refered to as "lord" which did not equate to meaning "God"

Nor does the title of Savior, as there were many people who were quite human, who were thought as the savior.

So to say the Jesus is Lord, does not mean the connotation it does today.

 

[Ragman]

The reason Christians say that Jesus is God is because the salvation and eternal life spoken of by Christ is none other than the sharing of the life of God. This sharing occurs because He, who is God (the Eternal Son), becomes what we are bringing together both God and man in Himself.

If Jesus Christ is not God then what He has to share is not divine. If Jesus Christ does not become man than what He has as God does not reach us.

The Nicene Creed (A.D. 325) was specifically written to state Christianity's position against Arianism which stated that although Christ was an exalted first creation, he was not God. Yet the church fathers, and Athanasius particularly said that Jesus Christ was homoousion to Patri (of the same substance as the Father) declaring that whatever the Father was the Son was of the same substance.

As far as scripture is concerned, Jn. 1:1 states "the Word was God..." I don't think there is much debate that the Word spoken of in this verse is the Son. And in vs. 14 of chapter 1 it states that "the Word became flesh (sarx) and dwelt among us..."

The short answer is that the entire Jewish and Christian hope is in the reality that the Son of God became Man and brought God and Man together in himself.

RM

 

[Ragman]

In his lifetime the historical Rabbi Yeshua bar Yosef never once claimed to be the literal son of God or God. His mission was as a messianic prophet in the mold of Eliyah to purify the people of Israel in preparation for the Kingdom of Heaven. It is only as Christianity developed as a separate faith from Judaism that Jesus Christ was scene as a literal son of God and part of the Godhead. The concept of the trinity is not found in any part of the Bible.

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, IamtheSonofGod?

 

[Superman]

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1:2
He was in the beginning with God.

1:3
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

1:4
In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

1:5
The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

This passage is John's introduction of Christ, and his attempt to explain the deity of Jesus. The cool thing is, this is a nod to the first couple verses of Genesis:

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

1:2
The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

1:3
Then God said, "Let there be light "; and there was light.

The construction of the Greek in John 1:1 makes it impossible that "the Word" and "God" are the same entity. I dont have enough posts to show you a picture of the actual Greek text and explain how the noun cases work, but in the Greek, there is no other way to interpret it other than it is describing Jesus as part of the Godhead, and yet leaving them as distinguishable.

Someone posted that the Bible does not contain any references that God is somehow 3 in 1. This verse (especially when viewed in the Greek) proves there is a Trinity.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

The reason Christians say that Jesus is God is because the salvation and eternal life spoken of by Christ is none other than the sharing of the life of God. This sharing occurs because He, who is God (the Eternal Son), becomes what we are bringing together both God and man in Himself.

If Jesus Christ is not God then what He has to share is not divine. If Jesus Christ does not become man than what He has as God does not reach us.

The Nicene Creed (A.D. 325) was specifically written to state Christianity's position against Arianism which stated that although Christ was an exalted first creation, he was not God. Yet the church fathers, and Athanasius particularly said that Jesus Christ was homoousion to Patri (of the same substance as the Father) declaring that whatever the Father was the Son was of the same substance.

As far as scripture is concerned, Jn. 1:1 states "the Word was God..." I don't think there is much debate that the Word spoken of in this verse is the Son. And in vs. 14 of chapter 1 it states that "the Word became flesh (sarx) and dwelt among us..."

The short answer is that the entire Jewish and Christian hope is in the reality that the Son of God became Man and brought God and Man together in himself.

RM

Ragman - excellent!

I started thinking along those lines a couple of years ago. I thought it was mere speculation until an Orthodox friend assured me it was the Orthodox understanding of the Atonement.

If God and Man are united in a single person, the estrangement between us is ended.

 

[MegOnFire05]

in john chap 1 it says, "In the beginging was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning." and then later in the same chap, "the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."

therefore the word is jesus and john 1:1 proves that God and Jesus are one and the same.

 

[Doctrine1st]

The problem with seeing the first chapter of John as being the smoking gun for Jesus being God is that it appears not the work of John, but rather the work of Philo of Alexandria whose death preceded the Book of John by some 40-50 years:

A comparison of thoughts of Philo and the inspired work attributed to John in regards to the telling chapter that depicts Jesus as God:


Philo. -- "The Logos is the Son of God" (De Profugis).
John. -- '"This [the Word] is the Son of God" (i, 34).

Philo. -- "The Logos is considered the same as God" (De Somniis).
John. -- "The Word was God" (i, 1).

Philo. -- "He [the Logos] was before all things" (De Leg. Allegor.).
John. -- "The same [the Word] was in the beginning with God" (i, 2).

Philo. -- "The Logos is the agent by whom the world was made" (De Leg. Allegor.).
John. -- "All things were made by him [the Word]" (i, 3).

Philo. -- "The Logos is the light of the world" (De Somniis).
John. -- "The Word was the true light" (i, 9).

Philo. -- "The Logos only can see God" (De Confus. Ling.).
John. -- "No man hath seen God.... He [the Word] hath declared him" (i, 18).

Excerpts from The Chirst by John Remsburg, Prometheus Books, 1994

Look familiar? So who inspired who? One of the biggest things the writers of the Bible had going for them is they didn't have to cite thier resources.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

The problem with seeing the first chapter of John as being the smoking gun for Jesus being God is that it appears not the work of John, but rather the work of Philo of Alexandria whose death preceded the Book of John by some 40-50 years:

A comparison of thoughts of Philo and the inspired work attributed to John in regards to the telling chapter that depicts Jesus as God:


Philo. -- "The Logos is the Son of God" (De Profugis).
John. -- '"This [the Word] is the Son of God" (i, 34).

Philo. -- "The Logos is considered the same as God" (De Somniis).
John. -- "The Word was God" (i, 1).

Philo. -- "He [the Logos] was before all things" (De Leg. Allegor.).
John. -- "The same [the Word] was in the beginning with God" (i, 2).

Philo. -- "The Logos is the agent by whom the world was made" (De Leg. Allegor.).
John. -- "All things were made by him [the Word]" (i, 3).

Philo. -- "The Logos is the light of the world" (De Somniis).
John. -- "The Word was the true light" (i, 9).

Philo. -- "The Logos only can see God" (De Confus. Ling.).
John. -- "No man hath seen God.... He [the Word] hath declared him" (i, 18).

Excerpts from The Chirst by John Remsburg, Prometheus Books, 1994

Look familiar? So who inspired who? One of the biggest things the writers of the Bible had going for them is they didn't have to cite thier resources.

I don't think that's a problem. Unless you believe in divine dictation, it's obvious that the writers of the Bible would have had all kinds of influences.

John, like all the gospel writers, was writing his gospel to try to express what the early church had come to understand about Jesus. If John was familiar with Philo (and this seems to imply he was), it is not at all surprising if John lifted Philo's concepts and applied them to Jesus, if Philo's Logos appeared to be a useful way of describing this understanding of Jesus.

From another viewpoint, one might say that God had presaged this understanding of Jesus as the Logos through the works of Philo; John was able to pick up on this and say "Yes! And you know this Logos - well, he became a man and...."

John's Gospel is full of Greek ideas (albeit the Dead Sea Scrolls show that these ideas were also current in Palestine). Why not open his gospel with an established discourse on the Logos, and then go on to identify Jesus with the Logos, much as Paul preached in Athens identifying Jesus with the "unknown God".