Why Gabriel? And why the "man" Gabriel, in Daniel 9?

[Douggg]

In Daniel 8, Gabriel appeared to Daniel, standing in Daniel's presence, having the appearance of a man. The voice that Daniel then heard - was the voice of the Lord,


Daniel 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

That's the vision that the "man" Gabriel in Daniel 9:23 is referring to - regarding the 70 weeks, and in particular the 70th week.

Daniel 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

The 70th week of Daniel 9 will be about the little horn time of the end vision. It is detached in time from the contiguous other 69 weeks. Detached to allow for the destruction of the city and temple in 70AD and the time of the gentiles for when the Jews were taken captive into the nations.

Now that we are living in the time of the end, the 70th week concerning the vision of the little horn is about to take place. Following Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39.

The little horn > becomes the prince who shall come (following Gog/Magog) > becomes the Antichrist > becomes the revealed man of sin > becomes the beast of Revelation.

 

[DavidPT]

In Daniel 8, Gabriel appeared to Daniel, standing in Daniel's presence, having the appearance of a man. The voice that Daniel then heard - was the voice of the Lord,


Daniel 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

That's the vision that the "man" Gabriel in Daniel 9:23 is referring to - regarding the 70 weeks, and in particular the 70th week.

Daniel 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

The 70th week of Daniel 9 will be about the little horn time of the end vision. It is detached in time from the contiguous other 69 weeks. Detached to allow for the destruction of the city and temple in 70AD and the time of the gentiles for when the Jews were taken captive into the nations.

Now that we are living in the time of the end, the 70th week concerning the vision of the little horn is about to take place. Following Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39.

The little horn > becomes the prince who shall come (following Gog/Magog) > becomes the Antichrist > becomes the revealed man of sin > becomes the beast of Revelation.

I agree that verse 27 involves the little horn. I'm no longer certain the entire verse involves it, though. 27b def involves it.

The Messiah has to be cutoff inside of the 70 weeks. Either during the first 69 weeks or during the 70th week. Certainly not during a gap since nothing recorded in verse 24 is fulfilled during a gap.

 

[Douggg]

The Messiah has to be cutoff inside of the 70 weeks. Either during the first 69 weeks or during the 70th week. Certainly not during a gap since nothing recorded in verse 24 is fulfilled during a gap.

The messiah has to be cutoff after 69 weeks. After his arrival in Jerusalem as the messiah. But not cutoff into the 70th week. But 4 days into the gap zone.

The 70th week is reserved for the time of the end vision of the little horn and Jesus' return to break him.

 

[DavidPT]

The messiah has to be cutoff after 69 weeks. After his arrival in Jerusalem as the messiah. But not cutoff into the 70th week. But 4 days into the gap zone.


View attachment 312414

The 70th week is reserved for the time of the end vision of the little horn and Jesus' return to break him.

If Jesus is cutoff during a gap that means that nothing recorded in verse 24 is something Jesus fulfills since those things are fulfilled within the 70 weeks, not a gap instead.

Something someone pointed out to me long ago, except I neglected to remember it at times, sacrifice recorded in verse 27 is the Hebrew word zebach. In the book of Daniel that is the only verse that Hebrew word is found in. In Daniel 8, 11, and 12, the Hebrew word for daily sacrifice is tamiyd. What are your thoughts on that, as to why the same Hebrrew word is not used in all of those passages?

 

[Douggg]

If Jesus is cutoff during a gap that means that nothing recorded in verse 24 is something Jesus fulfills since those things are fulfilled within the 70 weeks, not a gap instead.

It means that the things are fulfilled within the 70 weeks. The 70 weeks are complete when Jesus returns.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

In Daniel 8, Gabriel appeared to Daniel, standing in Daniel's presence, having the appearance of a man. The voice that Daniel then heard - was the voice of the Lord,


Daniel 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

That's the vision that the "man" Gabriel in Daniel 9:23 is referring to - regarding the 70 weeks, and in particular the 70th week.

Daniel 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

The 70th week of Daniel 9 will be about the little horn time of the end vision. It is detached in time from the contiguous other 69 weeks. Detached to allow for the destruction of the city and temple in 70AD and the time of the gentiles for when the Jews were taken captive into the nations.

Now that we are living in the time of the end, the 70th week concerning the vision of the little horn is about to take place. Following Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39.

The little horn > becomes the prince who shall come (following Gog/Magog) > becomes the Antichrist > becomes the revealed man of sin > becomes the beast of Revelation.

It was a Christophany.

 

[Douggg]

It was a Christophany.

The one having the appearance of a man in Daniel 8:15 is Gabriel. Daniel didn't know who he was, nor what his name was... until the voice of the Lord in Daniel 8:16, told Gabriel to make Daniel understand the vision.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

That's how Daniel knew the one like the appearance of a man not far away from him, name was Gabriel.

In verse 17, Gabriel comes closer to Daniel...

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

So there is the vision of the little horn person, received by Daniel, and Gabriel to explane it to him - which was carried over into Daniel 9. To take place as the 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

In Daniel 9:21, when Gabriel appeared to Daniel, Daniel didn't have to be told it was Gabriel because Daniel recognized him from before in Daniel 8.

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The one having the appearance of a man in Daniel 8:15 is Gabriel. Daniel didn't know who he was, nor what his name was... until the voice of the Lord in Daniel 8:16, told Gabriel to make Daniel understand the vision.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

That's how Daniel knew the one like the appearance of a man not far away from him, name was Gabriel.

In verse 17, Gabriel comes closer to Daniel...

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Either way Gabriel represents the interests of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

 

[Douggg]

Either way Gabriel represents the interests of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Gabriel is an angelic servant unto the Lord. The Lord sent Gabriel to Daniel in Daniel 8.

And the Lord sent Gabriel again to Daniel in Daniel 9.

The vision in Daniel 9:23 is that of the vision of the time of the end little horn.

The 70th week of Daniel 9:27 is time of the end regarding the vision about the little horn. Who will stop the daily sacrifice (as foretold in Daniel 8) in the middle part of the 7 year 70th week.

 

[Kenneth Heck]

Gabriel is called a man because he was a man of some kind before he became an archangel. This doesn't mean he originated from earth. He more likely came from a realm outside of the earth or the solar system.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The messiah has to be cutoff after 69 weeks. After his arrival in Jerusalem as the messiah. But not cutoff into the 70th week. But 4 days into the gap zone.

The 70th week is reserved for the time of the end vision of the little horn and Jesus' return to break him.

As David correctly indicated, Jesus had to be cut off within the 70 weeks and not withing a gap between the 69th and 70th week. His death is crucial to the fulfillment of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24, so it makes no sense to have His death not occur within one of the 70 weeks as you do. Since it says He would be cut off AFTER the first 69 weeks then it's very clear that He had to be cut off during the 70th week.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Gabriel is called a man because he was a man of some kind before he became an archangel. This doesn't mean he originated from earth. He more likely came from a realm outside of the earth or the solar system.

What evidence to you have to back this up? It's far more likely that he appeared as a man so that Daniel could comprehend his appearance. There is no basis for thinking that Gabriel was ever anything but an angel.

 

[Douggg]

Since it says He would be cut off AFTER the first 69 weeks then it's very clear that He had to be cut off during the 70th wee

No, that is your rationale, of not accepting that there is a gap between the 69th week and the 70th week. The 70th week is reserved for the time of the end vision of the little horn. The 2300 days of the little horn person fit within the 70th week.

The 70th week is the 7 year following the Gog/Magog event in Ezekiel 38-39.

The world is very close to Gog/Magog and the seven years that follow, and Jesus's return to this earth.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

No, that is your rationale, of not accepting that there is a gap between the 69th week and the 70th week. The 70th week is reserved for the time of the end vision of the little horn. The 2300 days of the little horn person fit within the 70th week.

The 70th week is the 7 year following the Gog/Magog event in Ezekiel 38-39.

The world is very close to Gog/Magog and the seven years that follow, and Jesus's return to this earth.

Christ's death was crucial for the fulfillment of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24. That verse indicates that those things would be fulfilled within the 70 weeks, not during some gap between any of the weeks. You don't even have Christ's death occurring during any of the 70 weeks. That's like saying His death has nothing to do with the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24, which is ridiculous. No wonder you try to say He died at the end of the 69th week. You know He had to die during one of the 70 weeks, so that's why you do that even though it couldn't be more clear that it says He would be cut off AFTER the 69th week.

 

[Douggg]

You don't even have Christ's death occurring during any of the 70 weeks

Jesus was cutoff, crucified, before the 70 weeks are complete. The 70 weeks are complete with His return, to break the little horn as it says in Daniel 8:25.

You keep arguing Daniel 9:24, without acknowledging the vision and prophecy in Daniel 9:24 is referring to the time of the end vision of the little horn person, and prophecy as all time of the end prophecy given to Daniel and his contemporary Ezekiel.

Even as the world is on the verge of Gog/Magog, followed by the 70th week, and Jesus's return to break the little horn person.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Jesus was cutoff, crucified, before the 70 weeks are complete. The 70 weeks are complete with His return, to break the little horn as it says in Daniel 8:25.

You keep arguing Daniel 9:24, without acknowledging the vision and prophecy in Daniel 9:24 is referring to the time of the end vision of the little horn person, and prophecy as all time of the end prophecy given to Daniel and his contemporary Ezekiel.

Even as the world is on the verge of Gog/Magog, followed by the 70th week, and Jesus's return to break the little horn person.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Again, you don't even have Jesus being cut off during any of the 70 weeks even though His death is crucial to the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24. So, apparently, you don't think His death was necessary in order for anything in Daniel 9:24 to be fulfilled (note: I'm not saying you don't think His death was necessary at all, I'm only saying in relation to Daniel 9:24).

 

[Douggg]

Again, you don't even have Jesus being cut off during any of the 70 weeks

And again Jesus was cutoff, crucified, before the 70weeks are complete. And after the 69 weeks. What you trying to tell me is that the messiah is cutoff after 69 weeks plus some part of the 70th week. But that is not what the text says.

Jesus was cutoff, crucified, after the 62th week, as it says in the text, which is 69 weeks when the 7 weeks of Daniel 9:25 are taken into account.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Why do you kept telling me something wrong, when what I have on my chart is right? The 70th week is time of the end.

You have no chart(s) of your own, of the 70 weeks, which the vision and prophecy of Daniel 9:24 take place. Nor of Jesus's return. For some reason, you don't think that the 70 weeks determined on Jerusalem and Daniel's people the Jews includes them believing on Jesus.

 

[Timtofly]

I am sure that in first century BC forums, it was prohibited to date set the future fulfillment of the 70 weeks, just the same as it is futile now to date set the end of that final year of that 70 weeks. It is still not a done deal, unless all here are full preterist and we do not even exist in any reality, but only figments of some being's virtual reality simulation.

 

[angelsaroundme]

I never noticed that. On a related note, this is from Genesis 18:1-3.

"Then the Lord appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, and said, 'My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant.'"

Here angels are described as men. Some think God is being described as a man also because of how it's written.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

And again Jesus was cutoff, crucified, before the 70weeks are complete. And after the 69 weeks. What you trying to tell me is that the messiah is cutoff after 69 weeks plus some part of the 70th week. But that is not what the text says.

Yes, it does, but since you don't understand the prophecy overall (including a complete lack of understanding of Daniel 9:24), that is why you're missing the point.

Jesus was cutoff, crucified, after the 62th week, as it says in the text, which is 69 weeks when the 7 weeks of Daniel 9:25 are taken into account.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

You continue to miss the point. The prophecy in Daniel 9:24 lists six things that had to happen during the 70 weeks. Not some time outside of the 70 weeks. That's what you are missing. Christ's death and sacrifice are crucial to the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24. Therefore, His death had to fall within one of the 70 weeks. It couldn't occur within the 69th week since it says He would be cut off AFTER the 69th week. So, the only week left during which He could be cut off was the 70th week. To not even have His death within any of the 70 weeks, as you do, shows a complete lack of understanding of the prophecy on your part.

Why do you kept telling me something wrong, when what I have on my chart is right? The 70th week is time of the end.

Your chart is just as wrong as your words.

You have no chart(s) of your own, of the 70 weeks, which the vision and prophecy of Daniel 9:24 take place. Nor of Jesus's return.

Who cares? We don't need charts. Are there charts in the Bible? No. Stop talking to me about charts. I have no interest in your charts whatsoever.

For some reason, you don't think that the 70 weeks determined on Jerusalem and Daniel's people the Jews includes them believing on Jesus.

For some reason you still don't even know what I believe as evidenced by the straw man argument you made here. When did I ever say that it doesn't include Jews believing on Jesus? I didn't. I believe the 70th week involves Christ's ministry, His death and resurrection, and the preaching of the gospel to the Jews. Many of the Jews believed in Him and were saved during that time, including 3,000 on the day of Pentecost alone.