Why don't church-priests, monks, and nuns repent of the vows which they swore?

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Nobody has told me to swear anything.

But, I'll repeat what I've already said. I consider your interpretation to be nothing more than performative moralism. This is no different than the Pharisees who were against Jesus for plucking grain to eat on the Sabbath. This isn't taking Jesus seriously, this is making a mockery of what Jesus said for self-indulgent pseudo-religion.

-CryptoLutheran

An "interpretation" which tries to eliminate all meaning and application of one or more words in a statement, is not an interpretation.

 

[prodromos]

The Law of Moses is not what God commanded us. It it interesting that you try to pretend otherwise. Certainly you do not obey the Law of Moses, or whichever nation of this world in which you are, would not be permitting you access to this forum. And Christ the Lord Himself did not obey many of the Laws of Moses: certainly those requiring executions.

Not once have I mentioned the Law of Moses, nor have you responded regarding the inspiration of the Psalms. It's very telling that you won't answer two simple questions.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Moses does not tell us what is good and evil for us. I do not respond to irrelevant questions with obvious answers.

 

[prodromos]

Moses does not tell us what is good and evil for us. I do not respond to irrelevant questions with obvious answers.

Which of my questions do you think is irrelevant?

 

[prodromos]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you think my question about the inspiration of the Psalms is both irrelevant and obvious. I'm guessing "obvious" because you do believe the Psalms are inspired by the Holy Spirit, however, what is irrelevant about the following?

Psalm 22:25​

From thee comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will pay before those who fear him.​

​

Psalm 50:14​

Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving, and pay your vows to the Most High;​

​

Psalm 56:12​

My vows to thee I must perform, O God; I will render thank offerings to thee.​

​

Psalm 61:5​

For thou, O God, hast heard my vows, thou hast given me the heritage of those who fear thy name.​

​

Psalm 61:8​

So will I ever sing praises to thy name, as I pay my vows day after day.​

​

Psalm 65:1​

Praise is due to thee, O God, in Zion; and to thee shall vows be performed,​

​

Psalm 66:13-14​

I will come into thy house with burnt offerings; I will pay thee my vows,​

that which my lips uttered and my mouth promised when I was in trouble.​

​

Psalm 76:11​

Make your vows to the Lord your God, and perform them; let all around him bring gifts to him who is to be feared,​

​

Psalm 116:14​

I will pay my vows to the Lord in the presence of all his people.​

​

Psalm 116:18​

I will pay my vows to the Lord in the presence of all his people,​

​

Psalm 132:1-2​

Remember, O Lord, in David’s favor, all the hardships he endured;​

how he swore to the Lord and vowed to the Mighty One of Jacob,​

It seems bleeding obvious to me that what Christ said in Matthew 5 is not about making vows to God, but rather about making vows to men, so the monastic and priestly vows that you so vehemently take issue with are not the subject of Christ's rebuke at all. It just demonstrates once again that your beliefs are informed, not by Scripture, but rather in opposition to what you perceive to be 'Catholic'.

 

[ViaCrucis]

An "interpretation" which tries to eliminate all meaning and application of one or more words in a statement, is not an interpretation.

If you are trying to say that you aren't interpreting what Jesus says, then that's not gonna fly.

I've met hundreds of people who claim they don't "interpret the Bible", they just "believe what it says". The only thing they all had in common is that they all believed the Bible was saying very different things.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Moses does not tell us what is good and evil for us.

That's a bizarre opinion to have if one calls themselves a follower of Jesus.

Last I checked God's Law, revealed to and through Moses, was very much about telling us what is good and evil. And Jesus tells us the same thing.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Last I checked God's Law, revealed to and through Moses, was very much about telling us what is good and evil. And Jesus tells us the same thing.

Rather clearly, you have cared little to read the Law of Moses.

18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and though they chasten him, will not listen to them, 19 then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city and to the gate of his place. 20 They shall tell the elders of his city, “This our son is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey our voice. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 All the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall remove the evil from among you. All Israel shall hear, and fear.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21

But if the bull had a habit of goring in the past, and this has been testified to its owner, and he has not kept it in, but it has killed a man or a woman, the bull shall be stoned, and its owner shall also be put to death.
Exodus 21:29

1 Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying, ‘If a woman conceives, and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of her monthly period she shall be unclean. 3 In the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. 4 She shall continue in the blood of purification thirty-three days. She shall not touch any holy thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying are completed. 5 But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her period; and she shall continue in the blood of purification sixty-six days. 6 “‘When the days of her purification are completed for a son or for a daughter, she shall bring to the priest at the door of the Tent of Meeting, a year old lamb for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon or a turtledove, for a sin offering. 7 He shall offer it before Yahweh, and make atonement for her; then she shall be cleansed from the fountain of her blood. “‘This is the law for her who bears, whether a male or a female. 8 If she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons: the one for a burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering. The priest shall make atonement for her, and she shall be clean.’”
Leviticus Chap. 12

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

If you are trying to say that you aren't interpreting what Jesus says, then that's not gonna fly.

I said:

An "interpretation" which tries to eliminate all meaning and application of one or more words in a statement, is not an interpretation.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I said:

An "interpretation" which tries to eliminate all meaning and application of one or more words in a statement, is not an interpretation.

Then I don't know what you are trying to say.

Who is trying to eliminate all meaning and application of one or more words in a statement? I assumed you were talking about yourself, but if you aren't, then I don't have a clue what this is intended to mean.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Rather clearly, you have cared little to read the Law of Moses.

18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and though they chasten him, will not listen to them, 19 then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city and to the gate of his place. 20 They shall tell the elders of his city, “This our son is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey our voice. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 All the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall remove the evil from among you. All Israel shall hear, and fear.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21

But if the bull had a habit of goring in the past, and this has been testified to its owner, and he has not kept it in, but it has killed a man or a woman, the bull shall be stoned, and its owner shall also be put to death.
Exodus 21:29

1 Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying, ‘If a woman conceives, and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of her monthly period she shall be unclean. 3 In the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. 4 She shall continue in the blood of purification thirty-three days. She shall not touch any holy thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying are completed. 5 But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her period; and she shall continue in the blood of purification sixty-six days. 6 “‘When the days of her purification are completed for a son or for a daughter, she shall bring to the priest at the door of the Tent of Meeting, a year old lamb for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon or a turtledove, for a sin offering. 7 He shall offer it before Yahweh, and make atonement for her; then she shall be cleansed from the fountain of her blood. “‘This is the law for her who bears, whether a male or a female. 8 If she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons: the one for a burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering. The priest shall make atonement for her, and she shall be clean.’”
Leviticus Chap. 12

You could try being less cryptic.

Though I have suspicions at this point about your theology. My suspicion is that it rhymes with Barcionite.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[prodromos]

So @JEBofChristTheLord do you agree that Christ is not talking about vows to God in Matthew 5? Do you understand that monastic and priestly vows are between them and God, and are not vows or oaths to men?

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

So @JEBofChristTheLord do you agree that Christ is not talking about vows to God in Matthew 5? Do you understand that monastic and priestly vows are between them and God, and are not vows or oaths to men?

Christ the Lord tells us to not swear at all. At all. He does not add your suggestion to His words. He tells us, that all swearing of vows or oaths, is of evil.

But I say to you, swear not at all, neither by heaven, for it is the throne of God;
...
But let your speech be 'Yes, yes,' or 'No, no.' Anything that is more than this is from the evil one.
Matthew 5:34-7

Do not swear to God. It is behavior of the evil one. Instead, choose His words, love them, and receive more of the freedom that He is eager to give.

 

[prodromos]

Christ the Lord tells us to not swear at all. At all. He does not add your suggestion to His words. He tells us, that all swearing of vows or oaths, is of evil.



Do not swear to God. It is behavior of the evil one. Instead, choose His words, love them, and receive more of the freedom that He is eager to give.

So by implication, you reject the Psalms as being inspired by the Holy Spirit. That is truly from the evil one.

 

[Strong in Him]

Do not swear to God. It is behavior of the evil one.

So when God swears/swore it was the behaviour of the evil one?
Psalm 95:11, Hebrews 3:18, Hebrews 6:13.