Why does a good God allow pain and suffering to exist in this world?

[Astrid]

I think it would be more accurate to say that "If you believe in the Christian God then...."

More accurate still to say "my particular and personally chosen interpretation"

 

[Astrid]

There is only one God...

I'm not into stating my opinions as fact.

 

[Lost4words]

I'm not into stating my opinions as fact.

Very much a fact though. God is real.

 

[CoreyD]

Hello, I have known these forums for a few years, but I haven't accessed them for a long time and I noticed that things have changed around here.

I'm not sure if this is the right place to discuss this topic. If it's not, I apologize and ask the moderators to move it to the appropriate forum if this is not the right place for this kind of topic. I apologize in advance if I break any forum rules. And I also apologize for the long post below.

I consider myself a pantheist and a freethinker, but I really want to regain my former faith in Christianity. Yes, I was raised in a Christian family, my whole family is Christian, and I used to be a Christian as well. I started losing faith in the Christian God after I lost my friend to cancer several years ago. The ancient philosophical and theological problem of evil is perhaps one of the biggest and main challenges preventing me from returning to Christianity. When I was a Christian, I was taught in church that God is All-Powerful, All-Loving, Perfect, a God who hears our prayers and cares for us, an Omnipotent God. If this God really cares about us, why did He allow my friend to lose the battle against liver cancer? This disease made him wither and suffer in such a tragic and inhumane way, even after almost two years of treatments and many prayers, but none of that helped, he lost the battle and passed away. I considered him like a brother. This made me question the goodness of the Christian God and my faith.

There was a moment when I came across Epicurus' trilemma, which presents the following dilemma attributed to this philosopher, saying:

If God is unable to prevent evil, then He is not all-powerful.

If God is not willing to prevent evil, then He is not all-good.

If God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?

This was also one of the reasons that made me question the goodness of the Christian God. And several other questions related to evil and suffering arose, such as these:

Why does God allow diseases like Tay-Sachs, which affect the neurons of some children, causing them to live short lives and experience horrible suffering? Why allow hepatic carcinoma that killed my friend, pancreatic cancer, lung cancer, and many other forms of cancer that often cause so much pain and terrible suffering in patients, many of whom are also young children? Why does leprosy exist, which, if untreated, rots the flesh and causes fingers to fall off? Why do such horrible congenital defects exist, such as epidermodysplasia verruciformis, cyclopia, ethmocephaly, craniopagus parasiticus, epidermolysis bullosa, anencephaly, progeria, spina bifida (and many other congenital diseases listed here https://medlineplus.gov/geneticsbirthdefects.html)? If you are sensitive to strong images, do not search for them on Google. The number of genetic and congenital errors that can occur is almost infinite. Why do mental and behavioral disorders exist, causing such horrible suffering that many people wish they had never been born, preferring to take their own lives, some even losing their sanity and discernment? Moreover, there are diseases like Alzheimer's, sickle cell anemia, autism, color blindness, diabetes, and countless other diseases that kill millions and millions of people, including babies and young children. Why does God allow natural disasters that have killed many people like these here ? Why do we have parasitic infections like malaria, dengue, Chagas disease, tetanus, lice, ticks, Loa loa, brain-eating amoebas, and many others? Why create a world with predation where animals cruelly kill each other to survive and where animals also suffer pain and agony? Why create a world where millions of women and small children were killed in Auschwitz, Treblinka, and other extermination camps, and also murdered by SS soldiers and the Einsatzgruppen during World War II? Why? Just because they were Jews? Why create a world where, besides the Holocaust, other events like the Stalinist Holodomor and other genocides and crimes against humanity have occurred and still occur? A world where women and children are mistreated, assaulted, exploited, used in sex trafficking, mutilated, raped, and killed in such cruel ways? A world where millions and millions of humans have been killed by wars, famines, and plagues? A world where misogyny, religious intolerance, homophobia, racism, chauvinism, fascism, rampant capitalism, extreme poverty, theft, and hunger exist, etc.? A world where people experience hatred, violence, indifference, hypocrisy, lies, and rancor? A world where some people are so selfish and full of themselves, proud, vain, mean, hateful, arrogant, abusive, and narcissistic?

And this is just what comes to mind at the moment.

I know that this is a question that has been asked and pondered by great philosophers and theologians over millennia, but despite that, I would like to hear the perspective of the Christians in this forum.

A long time ago, I read a post that @ViaCrucis (CryptoLuther) wrote in this forum several years ago quoting the philosopher Søren Kierkegaard, who said that 'to believe in God, a leap of faith must be made.' I'm sorry, but unfortunately, I can't find that post anymore. Although I found this very interesting, I can't make the leap to faith and embrace Christianity. I feel that doing so would be abandoning reason. Sometimes Christians say that God is beyond reason or that His plans are mysterious and incomprehensible to our limited minds. If God often doesn't want us to use reason and critical thinking to question His actions, then why did He make us thinking and rational beings? And why is He so mysterious and sinister? If we cannot even know God's plans, actions, and mysteries, then why assume that He really cares about us? I simply wish I could at least begin to understand in some logical way why the Christian God, with all the attributes He has, allows these terrible and tragic things to happen to us and to the rest of His creation that He claims to love so much.

Why does a God who is supposedly omniscient, omnipotent, and good allow all this suffering and pain that we see and experience in this world?

Thank you for reading until here.

Thanks you for posting.
I would like to attempt to answer this question in a satisfactory way, using the scriptures.
Please see consider this thread and I hope it can be discussed further, with more questions and answers.
Thanks.

 

[Felix.manuel]

Thank you to everyone participating in this thread, and I want to thank @2PhiloVoid because he is the user who is actually trying to address the points I raise here in this thread.

 

[Felix.manuel]

Just out of curiosity, your comment about being a pantheist made me wonder if perhaps you might lean more towards being a Panentheist.

I define myself as a pantheist because I believe that God and nature are the same thing, like Einstein, I believe in Spinoza's God. At this moment, I don't believe in a God that is greater than the universe and transcends it, as panentheists say. So I think that my views on God are more in line with pantheistic views or perhaps with pandeism, but not with panentheism.

 

[Felix.manuel]

Adam made that choice for everyone, that is in the blood line of Adam. Interesting that Jesus was not from the blood line of Adam, but Jesus suffered as much as any person who has ever lived. Why so He could be the blood sacrifice God required from man for Adams sin. This sacrifice and resurrection Jesus accomplished took away the sin of the world. So eventually suffering will end, the coming 1000 year millennium testifies to this.

The idea that all of humanity must suffer due to Adam's choice seems unfair and morally questionable. Why would God, being just and merciful, punish entire generations for a single mistake made by a distant ancestor? This challenges the principles of justice we value, where responsibility for actions should be individual. You claim that Jesus was not of Adam's lineage, despite being human, raises questions about the internal coherence of this narrative. If Jesus was human and born of a woman (Mary), how could he not belong to Adam's blood line? This disconnect seems to contradict the very nature of Jesus' incarnation as a human being. Many Christians see this as heresy because it denies the incarnation. Why would God need a sacrifice to forgive sins? Couldn't He simply forgive without the need for such violence? You say that Jesus' sacrifice took away the sin of the world, if Jesus' sacrifice really took away the sin of the world, why do suffering and sin continue to exist?

 

[Felix.manuel]

If one walks in faith he doesn't need to understand God's mysterious ways. We don't need to walk by sight, and see the hows and whys of his grace. He showed us a couple thousand years ago and we still didn't listen. We weed ourselves out by searching for something solid in which to convince us because it's too hard for some of us to handle the suffering, with their faith intact.If one walks in faith he doesn't need to understand God's mysterious ways. We don't need to walk by sight, and see the hows and whys of his grace. He showed us a couple thousand years ago and we still didn't listen. We weed ourselves out by searching for something solid in which to convince us because it's too hard for some of us to handle the suffering, with their faith intact.

I don't believe the things of this world you seem to hold so valuable are the priority in the long run. Not for God or those with faith. The things of this world are merely tools for us to stumble over time and again and ruin our chances of grace and salvation. Like I said, we weed ourselves out by chasing the wind in pursuit of esteemed objects of man.

With faith, it's easier to accept the pain and suffering of mortality. Because without it, God's true goal for us in the hereafter would likely not come to fruition. If you grow your faith you will be graced with the ability and tools to suffer any pain anyhow. Stop worrying and read the word if you want salvation. If you wholeheartedly wish you could return to Christianity then DO IT! If you don't try then you lied when you said wholeheartedly.

The idea that we should not seek to understand and simply accept God's mysterious ways without questioning can be quite problematic. Faith without questioning can lead to accepting explanations that don't stand up to logic or morality. Shouldn't we seek to understand and question the things presented to us, especially when they involve suffering and pain?

I understand your perspective on the transience of material goods, but I see it differently. Things in this world, like relationships, personal achievements, and contributions to society, have intrinsic value and can bring meaning and satisfaction. The pursuit of a fulfilling and ethical life doesn't need to be seen as a stumbling block but as an important part of the human experience. Furthermore, the idea that we are constantly ruining our chances of grace and salvation may seem pessimistic and discouraging. I prefer to believe that we can find meaning and purpose in the here and now, without relying on a reward or final judgment.

Faith may offer some comfort to many in dealing with the pain and suffering of mortality, but it's not the only way to find strength and resilience. There are many ways to face adversity that don't necessarily involve religious faith, such as social and family support, seeking professional help, etc. Furthermore, the idea that pain and suffering are necessary for the fulfillment of a divine purpose is difficult for me to accept. It seems unfair that a benevolent God would need to allow or even plan suffering for a future purpose. The issue of faith and salvation is deeply complex. I simply can't do it; I can't return to Christianity without good reason. I didn't lie when I said about my desire to return to Christianity, but as I said before, people simply aren't obligated to believe what I write.

 

[Felix.manuel]

God does everything for His glory. It's all about Him, not us. God indeed knew we would sin, but He created us to show His mercy and wrath. God allowed us to sin, so the Son can glorify the Father on the cross. Despite knowing we would sin, He still created us out of love, even though He knew how much our salvation would cost Him.

God is the Creator and can therefore do whatever He wants. He answers to no one. He does as He pleases, but whatever He does know that He will deal with you justly, as God cannot make an unjust judgement.



No one forces you to sin, yet you do anyway, because that's what you chose to do. As it is written, God has given everyone knowledge of Him, yet people surpress Him, because people don't want there to be God who they have to serve, people don't want there to be God because that would mean there is someone who they will answer for their sin. You, as everyone, we sin because we want to, and even when a person does not know what the Law, they know what is evil and they do it anyway.



I am going to respond to you as God responded to Job who question Him like you.

Can you explain how God created the universe? Where we you when God lay foundations of the Earth? Were you there to give Him wisdom on how He should create the universe? Have you in your life commanded the sun to raise or the clouds to give rain? Do you understand have God created a human merely out of dust? Have you considered the vast expanses of the Earth? Tell me all about them. Can you count the stars and explain how they were created and why they look the way they look? Do you command all the creatures in the sea and birds in the air? Do you feed them all in precise time? Do you command the winds or the waves of the sea?

If you can't explain these things, then why do you question God who created all these things out of nothing? Please read the book of Job, or at least chapter 38 and 39 and see how you measure against the infinite God who can form things out of nothing.

Why God does things then way He does? And why not? Who am I to question Him? God is who He is.

The idea that God does everything for His own glory and that it's all about Him, not us, may seem problematic to people seeking a more compassionate and altruistic sense in the relationship between God and humanity. If God is loving and omnipotent, why did He allow us to sin? If He created us out of love, then why does He allow us to suffer and feel pain? What kind of love is this?

If God is the Creator and can do as He pleases, this raises questions about the nature of divine justice. Claiming that God always acts justly because He cannot be unjust seems like a circular argument to me. Furthermore, the world shows many situations of suffering and injustice that are hard to reconcile with the idea of a wholly just and benevolent divine being.

This assertion that everyone has an innate knowledge of God and chooses to suppress it fails to consider the diversity of beliefs and spiritual experiences around the world. There are many people who live ethical and moral lives without adhering to a belief in God, and others who have different understandings of the divine.

The response to God speaking to Job can be seen as a way to emphasize the vastness and complexity of the universe, something that transcends human understanding. Sure. However, the complexity and our lack of complete understanding of the universe don't necessarily validate all actions or judgments attributed to God. Science has significantly advanced in explaining many natural phenomena, and the pursuit of understanding is a fundamental characteristic of the human experience. Furthermore, the idea that questioning is futile because "we can't understand everything" can be seen as a way to discourage curiosity and critical, rational thinking. I believe questioning is an essential part of human intellectual and moral growth. If we accept everything without questioning, we risk accepting injustices and errors without seeking improvements or solutions. I also acknowledge that there are limits to human knowledge, but that shouldn't hinder the quest for answers and a better understanding of the world and morality. Questioning the actions and purposes attributed to a deity can be a path to a more mature faith and a more robust ethics, one that isn't solely based on blind acceptance but on critical reflection and deep understanding.

 

[expos4ever]

I have not thought deeply about this question. However, to the extent that I have thought about it, I think the only coherent answer to the so-called problem of evil entails belief in a life beyond this life. If there is indeed a life beyond this life, one can imagine a rectifying of the injustices and suffering that many undergo during their earthly lives. If there is no such life beyond the grave, it really does seem hard to imagine for me how to reconcile evil with the existence of a good God.

 

[Felix.manuel]

The simplest and shortest answer to your question is, because one cannot have or experience true growth into the true highest God's true likeness any other way.

Our part is to make sure this is doing that for us each and every single day.

Otherwise it's meaningless. And in my view, might even wind up meaning that you are not one of the ones who is going to be saved, etc.

Claiming that true growth can only occur through likeness to a specific God is a view that may not resonate with everyone. I believe that personal and spiritual growth can be achieved in various ways, through various beliefs and practices, many of which do not involve religion or a specific God.

The idea that I cannot be "saved" for not following this specific path is something I see as exclusive, sectarian, and dogmatic. Many people find meaning, purpose, and growth in secular philosophies, philosophies of other religions, or ethical systems based on reason and human compassion.

 

[Felix.manuel]

@2PhiloVoid

It's true that not all questions have directly accessible answers, but that doesn't mean we should accept any answer without solid evidence. The quest for answers should be guided by reason and evidence, even if some questions remain unsolved. Describing the world as brutal and indifferent doesn't change whether God exists or not. However, the existence of a benevolent and powerful God should, theoretically, change this reality. The persistence of brutality, "red in tooth and claw," and suffering in general in the world can be seen as evidence against the existence of such a God or, at least, against the idea of a God who deeply cares about human suffering. Leibniz's hypothesis that this is the "best of all possible worlds" is difficult to reconcile with the reality of suffering and evil. People argue that an omnipotent God could create a significantly better world, with less suffering and more justice, without violating free will. I think the quest for meaning beyond material existence is valid, but it doesn't justify accepting any religious narrative uncritically. The question "is there more than just this?" is important, but the answer should be based on evidence and solid reasoning, not just hope or desire.

A "reasonably justified" avenue of inquiry should be grounded in evidence and logic. Faith based solely on hope may be comforting, but it's not necessarily true. Personal preference for a narrative isn't enough to establish its truthfulness. Embracing a materialistic view of life doesn't necessarily mean "succumbing to fatalism." Many materialists find meaning, purpose, and hope within natural life. Moreover, accepting a materialistic view doesn't preclude the pursuit of answers and understanding but guides it toward empirical and rational methods. Acknowledging the "apparent implausibility" of the Christian faith should lead to more critical investigation, not acceptance based on hope. If faith seems implausible, it may indicate that its claims don't hold up under rational and rigorous analysis.

I think saying that there are no accessible answers to the questions of evil and suffering raises a significant problem. If religions claim to provide an understanding of the world and morality but fail to satisfactorily explain the extreme and unjust suffering that I mention in my OP, this may undermine confidence in their ability to offer comprehensive and meaningful truths. While I found the idea of having direct access to God for answers appealing, the absence of this access questions the nature of a God who supposedly desires a close relationship with humanity, doesn't it? If God is loving and powerful as many say, why doesn't He provide a clearer and more direct way to answer such fundamental questions about suffering and evil? The suggestion that focusing on hyper-evils is a matter of subjective preference ignores the reality that these evils represent profound moral and existential issues. Events like genocides, horrendous diseases, and child suffering that I mentioned in my OP are not just 'subjective preferences,' but realities that challenge the idea of a good and just God. Ignoring or minimizing these questions can be seen as a way to avoid an honest confrontation with the central questions of theodicy.

The idea that focusing on extreme evils is a 'subjective preference' suggests a pragmatic rather than theological approach to dealing with suffering. However, I believe that a good and robust theology should be able to confront and explain the harshest realities of human life, rather than relegating them to matters of personal preference. A theology that fails to address the harshest realities of human life or adequately deal with the existence of catastrophic evils may be seen as insufficient to provide a solid foundation for belief in a loving and just God.

The concepts of an omnipotent and benevolent God are widely accepted in contemporary Judeo-Christian traditions. Dismissing Epicurus' trilemma based on its cultural origins does not address how these traditions are understood and practiced today. I still believe that modern Christians face the need to reconcile their beliefs with the reality of suffering. Although the concept of omnipotence brings more problems than solutions (e.g., arguments about stones that cannot be lifted, square triangles, and anything of the sort).

Thanks for the kind words, 2PhiloVoid

 

[Felix.manuel]

I have not thought deeply about this question. However, to the extent that I have thought about it, I think the only coherent answer to the so-called problem of evil entails belief in a life beyond this life. If there is indeed a life beyond this life, one can imagine a rectifying of the injustices and suffering that many undergo during their earthly lives. If there is no such life beyond the grave, it really does seem hard to imagine for me how to reconcile evil with the existence of a good God.

@expos4ever

The idea that the only coherent answer to the so-called problem of evil implies belief in a life beyond this one reflects a common perspective among many people seeking to reconcile the existence of evil with the conception of a good and benevolent God. For these individuals, the possibility of an afterlife offers hope for justice and rectification of injustices and suffering experienced during earthly life. But it would be good if many religious believers presented a coherent reason for why God allows these things to happen before the grave.

 

[Brihaha]

The idea that we should not seek to understand and simply accept God's mysterious ways without questioning can be quite problematic. Faith without questioning can lead to accepting explanations that don't stand up to logic or morality. Shouldn't we seek to understand and question the things presented to us, especially when they involve suffering and pain?

I understand your perspective on the transience of material goods, but I see it differently. Things in this world, like relationships, personal achievements, and contributions to society, have intrinsic value and can bring meaning and satisfaction. The pursuit of a fulfilling and ethical life doesn't need to be seen as a stumbling block but as an important part of the human experience. Furthermore, the idea that we are constantly ruining our chances of grace and salvation may seem pessimistic and discouraging. I prefer to believe that we can find meaning and purpose in the here and now, without relying on a reward or final judgment.

Faith may offer some comfort to many in dealing with the pain and suffering of mortality, but it's not the only way to find strength and resilience. There are many ways to face adversity that don't necessarily involve religious faith, such as social and family support, seeking professional help, etc. Furthermore, the idea that pain and suffering are necessary for the fulfillment of a divine purpose is difficult for me to accept. It seems unfair that a benevolent God would need to allow or even plan suffering for a future purpose. The issue of faith and salvation is deeply complex. I simply can't do it; I can't return to Christianity without good reason. I didn't lie when I said about my desire to return to Christianity, but as I said before, people simply aren't obligated to believe what I write.

Well, perhaps you haven't experienced the right suffering just yet. Your query as to why there has to be so much suffering could be answered soon. If you are so distraught as to seek His grace, the inspiration to find salvation is the suffering. Like I said, the pain inspires us when we are ready I suppose. If it's meant to be. We all suffer pain, yet not all are inspired to seek salvation.

I apologize if my attempt at "tough love" seemed harsh the other day. I raised three kids and a couple of them responded better to tough love than being too soft. I thought maybe you just needed a nudge. My attention was elsewhere and I probably should have kept quiet.

In growing my faith, recently I've made a breakthrough. I don't fear much here in my mortal body any longer. I'm more afraid of being lazy and apathetic in my faith and losing the blessing of salvation. I can assure you, I have always been interested in the hows and whys of just about anything. I am a literal thinker probably because I've always been a problem solver. So I definitely understand wanting to fathom and understand the ins and outs of God and the word. Funny thing is, He gives me the understanding now when I'm faithful. I understand the important things He needs me to understand. Even if I did have an epiphany and realized His reasoning for innocents suffering, I'm not equipped, HERE, to understand how or why. I've been given grace to work on my duties as a member of the body of Christ and let God handle the hard stuff.

It's still difficult to put my thoughts into proper words, even after all these years trying hahaha. I appreciate your reply though. Have a great day.

 

[Neogaia777]

Claiming that true growth can only occur through likeness to a specific God is a view that may not resonate with everyone. I believe that personal and spiritual growth can be achieved in various ways, through various beliefs and practices, many of which do not involve religion or a specific God.

You might believe that, but it doesn't mean that that's the truth, because the truth about suffering is what I told you.

The idea that I cannot be "saved" for not following this specific path is something I see as exclusive, sectarian, and dogmatic.

Doesn't matter how you see it as no one has a choice but to walk this path, or the path that you are right now complaining about. Aka, going through evil, or experiencing suffering, etc. Both dishing it out and taking it, etc.

Many people find meaning, purpose, and growth in secular philosophies, philosophies of other religions, or ethical systems based on reason and human compassion.

They might find meaning in them, but the only thing that can change yours/my nature is to experience the bad/evil first hand, or walk the path of suffering, etc.

I told you the truth, what you do with it is up to you.

You wanted and answer as to why bad, evil, wickedness, suffering, etc, and I told you, etc. It is up to you to be either satisfied or not satisfied with the answer.

God Bless.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

The idea that God does everything for His own glory and that it's all about Him

It is about Him. God does not need us but He created us to have a relationship with Him. Have we not chose to sin, there would be no pain, no suffering, no death, no cries etc. We chose to sin, not God.

If God is loving and omnipotent, why did He allow us to sin? If He created us out of love, then why does He allow us to suffer and feel pain? What kind of love is this?

Again, does God as a Creator of all creation has a right as He pleases with His creation? Does clay tell potter 'why have you created me'? Do parents ask their children if they want to be born? As is clay in potter's hands, so we are in Gods.

God did not create robots, but human beings with a free will to chose to obey God or reject Him. Humanity rejected God, not the other way round. It is God who calls us back to Him so we may have eternal life and enjoy a relationship with Him, and not to die in our sins. God said He desires all to repent and no one to perrish, but He cannot force you, can He?

Yes, God is love. If He was not why would He sent His only Son to take the punishment for our sin and die for us.

Imagine someone sinned against you and your loved ones all the time, you sent people to warn him but he kills them, and this person finally gets caught and is judged for all the evil and the penalty is death. Would you then stand up and say, 'yes the punishment is just, but I am going to give my only child who I love, for the culprit so he may live and my child will take punishment'. Would you do that? Would you give your child for your enemies? If this is not love, then I don't know what is.

If God is the Creator and can do as He pleases, this raises questions about the nature of divine justice. Claiming that God always acts justly because He cannot be unjust seems like a circular argument to me.

Because you have an image of God in your head on how He should be and how He should act. But God is not going to be like what people imagine Him to be. Ofc God is just, if God done just one evil act, He would cease to exist and the whole creation with Him. Don't create your own image of God, but read the Bible which God gave us so we know who is He. And when God says He is Holy and nothing bad is in Him, then I am going to trust Him. the one who created me, and sent His Son to die for me on the cross.

Btw where does your morality come from to say God is unjust? Are you going to judge God?

This assertion that everyone has an innate knowledge of God and chooses to suppress it fails to consider the diversity of beliefs and spiritual experiences around the world.

Because God says we surpress the knowledge of Him. God knows our every thought and desire, He knows what is hidden in us.

The response to God speaking to Job can be seen as a way to emphasize the vastness and complexity of the universe, something that transcends human understanding. Sure. However, the complexity and our lack of complete understanding of the universe don't necessarily validate all actions or judgments attributed to God.

I am not saying we cannot ask God why He does such and such, we however cannot tell Him what to do and what He can allow, because He knows way better than us. We are corrupt sinner, He is not.

Why don't you ask questions like why God gives you breath, and a heartbeat when you don't even acknowledge Him. You do nothing for Him, yet He allows good in your life. He is not judging you for now, because He wants you to come to Him so you may have a loving relationship with Him and live eternally without any suffering. How evil of Him. But the day of God's judgement is coming, because every sin must be punished. Either Christ is your Saviour and you are fogiven, or you will be paying for your sins forever.

In regards to science, who do you think created and gave man knowledge of it?

You asking why there is evil? Well because of humanity, we chose it, or are you going to blame God? Should God force us and we be lile robots? Then you'll be complaining again. You done evol in your life as has done everyone else. You going to blame God for it? Because God is just, all evil will be eventually punished, that is why you need a Saviour. And God has sent a Saviour 2000 years ago, so everyone who accepts Him and repents will be forgiven. But only Jesus Christ can forgive you.

Laatly, it doesn't matter what humans thin of themselves, but what God thinks, as He is the judge.

 

[d taylor]

The idea that all of humanity must suffer due to Adam's choice seems unfair and morally questionable. Why would God, being just and merciful, punish entire generations for a single mistake made by a distant ancestor? This challenges the principles of justice we value, where responsibility for actions should be individual. You claim that Jesus was not of Adam's lineage, despite being human, raises questions about the internal coherence of this narrative. If Jesus was human and born of a woman (Mary), how could he not belong to Adam's blood line? This disconnect seems to contradict the very nature of Jesus' incarnation as a human being. Many Christians see this as heresy because it denies the incarnation. Why would God need a sacrifice to forgive sins? Couldn't He simply forgive without the need for such violence? You say that Jesus' sacrifice took away the sin of the world, if Jesus' sacrifice really took away the sin of the world, why do suffering and sin continue to exist?

-
​

You are trying to gauge perfect justice from God, by comparing mans flawed justice. So this will never make sense to you.

Jesus line goes back to Adam/Eve through Mary Jesus was her seed. Jesus male seed was God The Father. So Jesus did not receive the sin nature seed that comes from the seed of Adam.

Jesus took away the sin of the world, that means people do not have to live sin free lives to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. It has nothing to do with removing the plenty of sin, that will take place with the creation of the new heaven and earth.

Adam was created with having Eternal Life (The Life of God) but Adam lost this life. Man/women are born with a dead spirit, because of Adam losing his. A human is born physically alive but spiritually dead.

Jesus was born physically alive and spiritually alive.

 

[dlamberth]

I define myself as a pantheist because I believe that God and nature are the same thing, like Einstein, I believe in Spinoza's God. At this moment, I don't believe in a God that is greater than the universe and transcends it, as panentheists say. So I think that my views on God are more in line with pantheistic views or perhaps with pandeism, but not with panentheism.

I'm attracted to the idea that everywhere one looks, there God is. That's' me wondering if that's where your spiritual world takes you.

 

[CoreyD]

Why did God allow death to enter the Universe and degrade life and all of His good creation? Couldn't He have prevented it?

There are Christians who disagree with you and claim that God is mysterious and that we cannot understand divine actions and mysteries. I think things related to human and animal suffering are of vital importance, but God has never revealed the reason behind this.

However, God has never revealed His plans regarding the issue of pain and suffering. If God does indeed care for us, why does He allow humans to continue to suffer?

If God loves us, then why does He allow a large part of His creation to suffer so tragically? I simply don't understand this.

I simply don't understand this.

Oftentimes, that is the real problem.
When we understand, then it makes a big difference in how we view things.

 

[CoreyD]

You say that God created a perfect world, without pain or anything evil, right? If it was indeed perfect, without pain or any evil action or influence, then why create beings He already knew would commit evil actions through sin and ruin everything? Why did God create a way to test us knowing that we would fail the test and ruin everything?

Why did God allow death and evil to enter the world through sin and afflict all creation through our sins and iniquities? Why do All humans and All of nature need to suffer for the sins of Adam and Eve?

Why did He need to subject Christ to the torture of crucifixion and death? Couldn't He redeem us, save us, heal us, and forgive our sins in another way? Without Jesus' execution on the Cross being necessary?

We see more evil than good in this world. The good that God allows may not even compare to the occurrence of evil and violence in this world. In what way do we mock God? In what way do people who suffer tragically mock God? And the tragedies and disasters in this world provide evidence that it is likely that God is not caring for us all day long and every day of the week. And yet God created human beings who are ungrateful, wicked, murderers, and selfish even though God has all the Power to have created us with a different nature or at least to change our corrupt nature.

I question the goodness of the Christian God because reality shows me that He is not as benevolent as many Christians claim He is, unfortunately. Why will He judge me? You are not obligated to believe in what I write here, but I at least strive to live an honest and just life, I try to do my best to treat people with dignity and respect, do you think this is not a good way to act? Do you think He did not create me to act in this way? Do you think I am disobedient just because I question the goodness of God in my OP?

You mentioned something similar to the passage in Romans 9: 20-21, if God does not allow us to have doubts and even question Him, if it is wrong to question, then why did God make us thinking and questioning beings?

Yes, I ask where His love is. Why does God, who is Love and Justice, allow children to suffer from these conditions and tragedies that I mentioned in my OP? When I was a Christian, I always believed that God as an Almighty Being would do much more than we think, ask, or imagine.

As I said, you may not believe and I also don't want to convince anyone to believe in what I write. I was born in a Christian home, I have always devoted my faith to the Christian God, I have worshiped and praised Him with all my heart and all my soul, and I have prayed to Him with all faith and devotion, read the scriptures faithfully and devotedly. So, yes, to all your questions. Can we do something for a God?

If God is calling me, then why doesn't His call come in a clearer and undeniable way for me to believe?

You have many many question, and it's good to ask.
All of these questions are answered in the book we call the Bible.
It just requires a little bit of time, and a little bit of help, studying it.
Once we do that, all our questions are answered, and we will understand why things are the way they are.
Jesus said, we need to pay attention to how we listen. That of course requires, not a heart of stone, but a heart of flesh. Ezekiel 11:19
Seed falling on stone will not produce.