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Why do the American's on this forum keep bringing up Putin's statements like they are truthful?

CitizenD

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Multiple threads are now at the top of this forum that all hinge on taking Putin's words at face value.

Any casual observer of Russian culture will tell you what kind of nihilistic mess Putin's statements are in Russia. It doesn't take some CIA investigation to tell you he was the head of a bunch of spies at the KGB. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out the strategy of a government that literally kills reporters.

But hey! Let's trust the murderous dictator and take his word over American intelligence agencies, and pretty much every single observer in any country other than Russia.

Tell me, how do you consider yourselves Americans when you regurgitate such tosh?
 
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Speedwell

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Tell me, how do you consider yourselves Americans when you regurgitate such tosh?
Yes, but it's been proved with geometric logic that the intelligence community has concocted the alleged Russian interference in our election as part of a conspiracy to "get Trump." Isn't that the spin?
 
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CitizenD

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Yes, but it's been proved with geometric logic that the intelligence community has concocted the alleged Russian interference in our election as part of a conspiracy to "get Trump." Isn't that the spin?
Authoritarian dictators of the world unite to protect the proles! Deliver yourself into their tiny, murderous hands.
 
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AirPo

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Multiple threads are now at the top of this forum that all hinge on taking Putin's words at face value.

Any casual observer of Russian culture will tell you what kind of nihilistic mess Putin's statements are in Russia. It doesn't take some CIA investigation to tell you he was the head of a bunch of spies at the KGB. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out the strategy of a government that literally kills reporters.

But hey! Let's trust the murderous dictator and take his word over American intelligence agencies, and pretty much every single observer in any country other than Russia.

Tell me, how do you consider yourselves Americans when you regurgitate such tosh?
What makes you think they are Americans?
 
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Clint Edwards

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Multiple threads are now at the top of this forum that all hinge on taking Putin's words at face value.

Any casual observer of Russian culture will tell you what kind of nihilistic mess Putin's statements are in Russia. It doesn't take some CIA investigation to tell you he was the head of a bunch of spies at the KGB. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out the strategy of a government that literally kills reporters.

But hey! Let's trust the murderous dictator and take his word over American intelligence agencies, and pretty much every single observer in any country other than Russia.

Tell me, how do you consider yourselves Americans when you regurgitate such tosh?
Trump is like the two faced God janus. On the one hand he can say the most stupid inane things imaginable.

On the other hand his Administration has accomplished some very good things that I strongly support.

Trump cannot seem to understand that there are actually two investigations in the " Russia investigation ", i.e. Russian behavior specifically related to the election and his campaign's behavior related to the Russians before the election, two separate tracks. Because of this he see's them as one, and as is his wont, he sees them all about him, with he being the victim.

So, in cozying up to the Russians he apparently believes in some primal way that he is being defiant to the investigation and defending himself from what he see';s as an immoral attack upon him.

He also believes, with a lot of justification, that open communication is better than silent confrontation. I support him here.

This however, doesn't require one to appear to be a Neville Chamberlain. As a patriotic American who knows Russia's desires and goals, Trump embarrassed me with his stupid words at the Helsinki news conference.
 
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mina

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I was at a child's birthday party this weekend and some adult there just out of the blue started praising Trump and made the statement that Putin was the most trustworthy world leader apart from Trump that there is.....it was not satire; this person was actually serious. And went on to declare that Putin has never murdered anyone or made people disappear; this is all fake news; everyone who has ever said or reported anything negative about Putin has just been lying for attention. Putin was the savior of Russia and upholds Christian values......
It was the weirdest thing I've ever heard. If people want to believe that; I guess they can. I guess we are in the call good evil and call evil good stage. They were asked to either leave or be quiet because a child's birthday party is no place for that.
 
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wing2000

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...he is no friend of America, nor the church (other than to use the latter to maintain his power)

Under the guise of implementing “anti-terrorism” measures, Putin adopted laws in 2016 that restrict religious freedom and criminalize missionary activities. According to the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF), the Russian president signed into law measures that redefine “missionary activities” as religious practices that take place outside of state-sanctioned sites. The law bans “preaching, praying, proselytizing, and disseminating religious materials” outside of sites officially designated by the state. Citizens can also be fined up to $15,000 for engaging in these activities in private residences or distributing unauthorized religious materials through “mass print, broadcast, or online media.” Foreign missionaries also must prove they were invited by state-registered religious groups and must operate only in regions where their sponsoring organizations are registered. Missionaries who fail to comply face harsh fines and deportation.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...-know-about-russian-president-vladimir-putin/
 
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Kaon

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Multiple threads are now at the top of this forum that all hinge on taking Putin's words at face value.

Any casual observer of Russian culture will tell you what kind of nihilistic mess Putin's statements are in Russia. It doesn't take some CIA investigation to tell you he was the head of a bunch of spies at the KGB. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out the strategy of a government that literally kills reporters.

But hey! Let's trust the murderous dictator and take his word over American intelligence agencies, and pretty much every single observer in any country other than Russia.

Tell me, how do you consider yourselves Americans when you regurgitate such tosh?

There is a lot of social engineering and programming that goes on in the States. It isn't much less than any other nation socially engineers their population, but America has never been put to the test as a nation so as to be wisely suspicious of empty politicians, or their words, for example. Despite seeing these warring politicians literally laugh at the public together, over dinner, it is hard for many of them to accept that their entire nation (as are all nations) have been hijacked by corruption they are not willing to entertain exists. That last part is important, because it is how they are being exploited. Despite being one of the most technologically advanced and educationally progressive (university) nations on the planet, Americans tend to be incredulous of the wrong things.

They are naive as a nation.

It will take America's first collapse as a nation for them to behave in a way the world calls "more rational."
 
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CitizenD

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it is hard for many of them to accept that their entire nation (as are all nations) have been hijacked by corruption they are not willing to entertain exists.

It is simply not the case that nations are equally compromised. Corruption is an issue that is and has been studied. Western countries are considerably less corrupt than the rest of the world. For two immediate examples, police shakedowns for bribes are the absolute standard in MOST of the world. Whereas in the US and EU, if you offered a bribe to an officer you would definitely get thrown in prison. For the second example, bribes for bureaucracy. In most of the world, you have to pay a bribe to the right bureaucrat to make anything happen.

This level of corruption is unheard of in the United States.
 
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ubicaritas

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It is simply not the case that nations are equally compromised. Corruption is an issue that is and has been studied. Western countries are considerably less corrupt than the rest of the world. For two immediate examples, police shakedowns for bribes are the absolute standard in MOST of the world. Whereas in the US and EU, if you offered a bribe to an officer you would definitely get thrown in prison. For the second example, bribes for bureaucracy. In most of the world, you have to pay a bribe to the right bureaucrat to make anything happen.

This level of corruption is unheard of in the United States.

Indeed. People think "corruption" is bad here, I would suggest they have no clue as to what most of the rest of the world has.
 
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CitizenD

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ndeed. People think "corruption" is bad here, I would suggest they have no clue as to what most of the rest of the world has.
Whenever someone suggests corruption is bad in the US, I just assume they have never left EU/US/Canada/Australia for pretty much anywhere else.
 
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ubicaritas

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Whenever someone suggests corruption is bad in the US, I just assume they have never left EU/US/Canada/Australia for pretty much anywhere else.

In parts of southern or eastern Europe, graft isn't seen as something immoral but just how business is done. Everybody expects a gratuity for even the most basic services.
 
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Kaon

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It is simply not the case that nations are equally compromised.

Oh, it is the case; you just may not know about it. No one figurehead runs this world - that should be clear from a pedestrian POV. No one corporation [conglomerate], even, runs this world. Ideally, as a believer, you know there are real powers, principalities, and entities in heavenly realms that pull strings on a geopolitical scale - using other entities down here to do it. These are real entities; not metaphors - the same type of real entities the Redeemer literally removed from another human, and literally put into swine. If you believe that, then you absolutely know about these powers and principalities running this world.

On a civilian level, it should still be clear that no puppet figurehead runs a nation, and none of the nations are any less corrupt than any other. America talks about N. Korean crimes against humanity as if the nation has never had corrupt bedfellows, and has never done wet work itself. The posturing of a "democratic nation of the people" is a farce for the collective consciousness of the people - to maintain sedation, ignorance and complacency.

Corruption is an issue that is and has been studied. Western countries are considerably less corrupt than the rest of the world. For two immediate examples, police shakedowns for bribes are the absolute standard in MOST of the world. Whereas in the US and EU, if you offered a bribe to an officer you would definitely get thrown in prison.

Not definitely - if it fits the mood or exploitation of the entity. An odyssey in Police Corruption in the US will vehemently put to bed the idea that one would definitely be thrown in prison for bribing a cop. This is also the case for the EU, and the UK. It is an illusion to believe the West does not have a rich culture of coups, currency manipulation, creating wars for profit, and toppling governments for the purposes of putting their own puppet in office. These things can be verified historically.

The U.S. and EU razed most of S. America - and have been for decades - through one or more of the aforementioned vectors of corruption.

For the second example, bribes for bureaucracy. In most of the world, you have to pay a bribe to the right bureaucrat to make anything happen.

The US skips that step and just denies you due process - while giving you the illusion that you have rights. If you know your law, you know what law is currently in effect.

The West, East, South and North all magnify their own [marginal] attributes, while highlighting the errors and wrongs of other nations and regions. This is by design, but it is a complete comparative deception.

This level of corruption is unheard of in the United States.

This is my point; it is not unheard of in the States; the current population of the States may just be realizing the magnitude of the corruption, but generations of Americans have seen more overt corruption, and (perhaps, because of seeing the corruption) have been able to make prescient conclusions about the trajectory of the world today. Some less scrupulous persons exploit this fatal flaw in the sight of Americans, and make money from it. Most people have a convenient paradigm to alleviate their responsibility to see the magnitude of the corruption with which they constantly face.

Whatever it is, if you are seeing the corruption in the States now, it is almost too late. Of course, anything is possible with the Most High God.
 
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ubicaritas

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The US skips that step and just denies you due process - while giving you the illusion that you have rights. If you know your law, you know what law is currently in effect.

This is just overblown rhetoric and amounts to nothing more than anti-Americanism. America is not perfect but compared to most other countries we have a great respect for due process in our justice system.

Whatever it is, if you are seeing the corruption in the States now, it is almost too late. Of course, anything is possible with the Most High God.

Which sums up everything about your superstitious worldview. Every central bank becomes a den for demons.
 
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Clint Edwards

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I was at a child's birthday party this weekend and some adult there just out of the blue started praising Trump and made the statement that Putin was the most trustworthy world leader apart from Trump that there is.....it was not satire; this person was actually serious. And went on to declare that Putin has never murdered anyone or made people disappear; this is all fake news; everyone who has ever said or reported anything negative about Putin has just been lying for attention. Putin was the savior of Russia and upholds Christian values......
It was the weirdest thing I've ever heard. If people want to believe that; I guess they can. I guess we are in the call good evil and call evil good stage. They were asked to either leave or be quiet because a child's birthday party is no place for that.
There are those who support Trump as a politician, and recognize he as a ton of warts. There are those who worship him as a god, believe he is infallible, want him to be more like the little KGB thug putin, and actually admire putin. You crossed paths with one of these trumpbots. They have a lot of bird poop and many birds on their antennaś.
 
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ubicaritas

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I was at a child's birthday party this weekend and some adult there just out of the blue started praising Trump and made the statement that Putin was the most trustworthy world leader apart from Trump that there is.....it was not satire; this person was actually serious. And went on to declare that Putin has never murdered anyone or made people disappear; this is all fake news; everyone who has ever said or reported anything negative about Putin has just been lying for attention. Putin was the savior of Russia and upholds Christian values......
It was the weirdest thing I've ever heard. If people want to believe that; I guess they can. I guess we are in the call good evil and call evil good stage. They were asked to either leave or be quiet because a child's birthday party is no place for that.

I used to be an Orthodox Christian and there were people at my conservative parish who seemed to have similar attitudes, that Putin's brutality was justifiable because he was standing up for "Christian values". That was right around the time I was becoming seriously alienated from that religion and I left it.

I figured if people in a church are no longer interested in truth or justice then I wanted to have no part in the sort of "religion" being promoted. Some of the people even seemed to think our church would be better off under the Moscow Patriarchate and did not trust our own synod to direct its affairs as Americans.
 
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