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Why do some denominations not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved?

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GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta

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Why do some denominations, such as the Church of God, not believe in Once Saved Always Saved, even though the Bible clearly outlines that salvation is eternal? That is, salvation is by grace through faith and it is something that cannot be taken from you.

While I believe that grace covers such Christians and that they are genuinely saved for putting their faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, it must be somewhat troublesome to think that backsliding will result in you becoming detached from the Lord. It seems like it would hinder someone's growth in the Lord rather than promote obedience.

The thing is that God chooses us and we respond. He doesn't let go of us once we're a Child of God.

Sometimes it seems like such denominations haven't viewed the Bible in its entire scope, interpreting. What is your take on this subject?
 

prodromos

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OSAS is actually a minority view amongst Christians. It is not accepted by the vast majority of Christians around the world, so the better question would be, why do some Christians believe OSAS?
 
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ViaCrucis

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The doctrine of Perseverance of the Saints or "Once Saved Always Saved" is unique to the Calvinist-Reformed tradition.

Lutherans don't believe it. We don't believe it because the Bible clearly teaches that it is possible to fall away from the faith, to become apostate.

Lutherans do, however, believe in "Security"; or to put it more expressly, we believe that in Christ we are, indeed, secure and we have assurance in Him. But if we turn away from Christ, if we reject His gifts, if we renounce our Baptism, etc, then we apostatize, we are no longer in Christ through our own deliberate will.

The standard Reformed response is that to turn away from faith means one never had faith to begin with. Problematic since Scripture obviously doesn't say this; but it is a necessary doctrine in the systematic theology of TULIP. If, after all, Christ died only for the elect, and the elect are chosen unconditionally before creation, and predestined to believe, then upon hearing the Gospel they believe because the grace is irresistible, then it follows that the elect cannot fall away. It's a nice, tidy, self-contained theological system.

It makes less sense outside of the coherent framework of TULIP.

But yes, Scripture is clear that there is salvation found no where else except Jesus Christ, and His saving work for us, once and for all, upon Calvary. We receive all the benefits of this by faith, the good work of God in us to regenerate us and turn us toward Him; if we then turn away from this, reject faith, renounce Christ (etc) then we do not remain in Christ, and therefore fall away.

But apostasy is deliberate, not accidental. Nobody "loses" their salvation as though it were a pair of keys that you can misplace; nor is it something you must continually work for an earn. There is no earning it, none of our works merit anything before God. But it does mean trusting in Christ for our salvation, to trust in Christ is our salvation; to reject Christ is to reject our salvation.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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squint

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Why do some denominations, such as the Church of God, not believe in Once Saved Always Saved, even though the Bible clearly outlines that salvation is eternal? That is, salvation is by grace through faith and it is something that cannot be taken from you.

While I believe that grace covers such Christians and that they are genuinely saved for putting their faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, it must be somewhat troublesome to think that backsliding will result in you becoming detached from the Lord. It seems like it would hinder someone's growth in the Lord rather than promote obedience.

The thing is that God chooses us and we respond. He doesn't let go of us once we're a Child of God.

Sometimes it seems like such denominations haven't viewed the Bible in its entire scope, interpreting. What is your take on this subject?

It appears they prefer a Savior that might save them rather than A Savior who actually does.
 
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South Bound

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OSAS is actually a minority view amongst Christians. It is not accepted by the vast majority of Christians around the world, so the better question would be, why do some Christians believe OSAS?

Because we believe the Bible's teaching that Christ is able to keep that which the Father has given Him, and is competent to keep us from falling.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Because we believe the Bible's teaching that Christ is able to keep that which the Father has given Him, and is competent to keep us from falling.

And that's not being called into question.

The question is whether it is possible to deliberately turn away from the faith, to become apostate.

The Scriptures are clear that it is possible. Why speak about those who will fall away from the faith by turning to heresy (1 Timothy 4:1) if nobody can fall away from the faith?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta

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And that's not being called into question.

The question is whether it is possible to deliberately turn away from the faith, to become apostate.

The Scriptures are clear that it is possible. Why speak about those who will fall away from the faith by turning to heresy (1 Timothy 4:1) if nobody can fall away from the faith?

-CryptoLutheran

People do back slide. However, like the parable of the prodigal son, the father welcomed him back because he was his child.
 
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South Bound

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And that's not being called into question.

The question is whether it is possible to deliberately turn away from the faith, to become apostate.

No.

The Scriptures are clear that it is possible. Why speak about those who will fall away from the faith by turning to heresy (1 Timothy 4:1) if nobody can fall away from the faith?

Too bad you didn't keep reading. It tells us that they fell away because they followed a false gospel.
Think about the consequences of rejecting the Biblical doctrine of eternal security for a moment. If we could really lose our salvation, then Hebrews 6:4-6 says that if we ever sin after being saved, we'll be lost forever with no way back, because the Lord would have to be crucified all over again to retrieve us. BTW, it only takes one sin to fall away, right? I mean, one sin before we're saved was enough to condemn us, so one sin after we're saved is enough to condemn us, right? Doesn't this make the New Covenant worse than the Old? Under the Old Covenant, the Israelites were condemned for their actions, but we'd be condemned for our thoughts.

Under the Old Covenant, under the law, the Israelites couldn't murder. We couldn't even be angry. They couldn't commit adultery. We couldn't even have a lustful thought. If you're right, then we lose our salvation by doing less in following the law than the Israelites did!

Is this really the Good News of Jesus Christ? Are these the riches of His Grace, that we have to live in fear of sinning? Are we saved by grace only to be placed under the constraints of an even more severely administered law?

And what of Romans 8:29-30, which says that God predestined those whom He foreknew to be conformed to the image of Christ. If we can lose our salvation and, thus, our conformity to the image of Christ, then does this mean that God's foreknowledge is wrong? That's open theism, which has historically been condemned as heresy by the Church.

How about Jude 24, which says that Christ is able to keep us from falling? If we can lose our salvation, does this mean that Christ is able to keep us from falling, but is merely unwilling? How is that consistent with the Biblical description of Christ?

What do you make of Colosians 3:1-4, which promises that if we have been save, we will appear with Christ in glory? It doesn't say "you might appear with Christ in glory, if you don't lose your salvation". It says "you will appear with Christ in glory". Done deal.

Philipians 1:6 promises us that if Christ has begun a good work in us, that He will finish it. How does He keep that promise if you believe you can lose your salvation?

How do you explain 1 Peter 1:23, which tells us that when we are born again, we are born of incorruptable seed? If we can lose our salvation, then this seed is corruptable and that promise is not true.

Like Colosians 3:1-4, 1 John 3:2 says that we are sons of God now and that when Christ appears, we will be like Him. There is no qualifier. There is no "...if we don't lose our salvation".

Titus 1:2 says that God has promised us eternal life and that He never breaks a promise.

In John 10:27-29, Jesus promises us that He has given us eternal life, that we will never perish, and that we are not only in His hands, but in the Father's hands. How is Jesus' promise in John 10:27-28 consistent with the idea that we can lose our salvation? Is Jesus really incompetent to keep those whom the Father has given Him?

John 5:24 says that if we are saved, we will not come into condemnation but will have eternal life? How can Jesus promise that we will not come into condemnation if He knows we can lose our salvation?

Romans 11:6 tells us that salvation is not by works. If we cannot be saved by works, then how can we lose our salvation by works?

John 14:16-17 tells us that when we are saved, the Holy Spirit indwells us forever. How can the Holy Spirit indwell in us forever if we lose our salvation? Since when does the Holy Spirit dwell in the unsaved?

Ephesians 1:13, 4:30 tells us that we are sealed unto the day of redemption. If we lose our salvation, then how can we still claim to be sealed?

1 Peter 1:4 says that our salvation is "imperishable, undefiled, and unfading". If our salvation is imperishable, how can we lose it? If our salvation is promised by God to be undefiled, how can we defile it?

I would strongly encourage you to reconsider your denial of the Biblical doctrine of eternal security and its logical and Biblical consequences.
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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Why do some denominations ... not believe in Once Saved Always Saved...?

... What is your take on this subject?
It is unscriptural for numerous reasons and actually quite dangerous to ones' salvation.

That is the Scriptural standpoint [for my [or anyone's] 'take'] is not relevant in comparison to "Thus saith the Lord", and "It is written" yes?], upon which if you would like, I will enter into Bible study with you, that this may be made manifest to all. However, if so, I will not be replying to any others posts/responses, only to your own in our study. Additionally, there must also be participation upon your part [as my own] to directly answer questions asked, if/when they come up.

There are not merely texts to consider, though they also needs be considered, but moreso an entire look at the plan of salvation, from type to anti-type, shadow to substance, figure to real.
 
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OSAS is actually a minority view amongst Christians. It is not accepted by the vast majority of Christians around the world, so the better question would be, why do some Christians believe OSAS?

The majority of today's Christians trace their bishop lineages back to the Roman Church. Even EO. And SDA. This is why the majority believe a theology that is more similar to Sinai thinking than Zion salvation.

Remember Firmilian in 256ad commenting of the baptism issue. He said, Rome fell away and pretends the authority of apostles re easter and other sacramental issues. Anyone may know.
 
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squint

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It is unscriptural for numerous reasons and actually quite dangerous to ones' salvation.

A classic. If you believe you are saved you may not be.

However, if so, I will not be replying to any others posts/responses, only to your own in our study.

Certainly can't have anyone questioning any open holes or anything.

Who ever said theology is not entertaining?
 
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squint

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So much for "I write these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:13)"

I have to admit to the fact that it's an interesting study with plenty of ammo on both sides of the fence.

These kinds of complications are purposefully placed in the text.

For the record I believe OSAS not only for myself, but for everyone who has simply called upon our Lord to save them. So I'll admit to being a tad hyper OSAS...;)

And I'll also say it makes me very very happy to measure that way to others even if they don't believe it for themselves.

s
 
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prodromos

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No.



Too bad you didn't keep reading. It tells us that they fell away because they followed a false gospel.
Think about the consequences of rejecting the Biblical doctrine of eternal security for a moment. If we could really lose our salvation, then Hebrews 6:4-6 says that if we ever sin after being saved, we'll be lost forever with no way back, because the Lord would have to be crucified all over again to retrieve us. BTW, it only takes one sin to fall away, right? I mean, one sin before we're saved was enough to condemn us, so one sin after we're saved is enough to condemn us, right? Doesn't this make the New Covenant worse than the Old? Under the Old Covenant, the Israelites were condemned for their actions, but we'd be condemned for our thoughts.

Under the Old Covenant, under the law, the Israelites couldn't murder. We couldn't even be angry. They couldn't commit adultery. We couldn't even have a lustful thought. If you're right, then we lose our salvation by doing less in following the law than the Israelites did!

Is this really the Good News of Jesus Christ? Are these the riches of His Grace, that we have to live in fear of sinning? Are we saved by grace only to be placed under the constraints of an even more severely administered law?

And what of Romans 8:29-30, which says that God predestined those whom He foreknew to be conformed to the image of Christ. If we can lose our salvation and, thus, our conformity to the image of Christ, then does this mean that God's foreknowledge is wrong? That's open theism, which has historically been condemned as heresy by the Church.

How about Jude 24, which says that Christ is able to keep us from falling? If we can lose our salvation, does this mean that Christ is able to keep us from falling, but is merely unwilling? How is that consistent with the Biblical description of Christ?

What do you make of Colosians 3:1-4, which promises that if we have been save, we will appear with Christ in glory? It doesn't say "you might appear with Christ in glory, if you don't lose your salvation". It says "you will appear with Christ in glory". Done deal.

Philipians 1:6 promises us that if Christ has begun a good work in us, that He will finish it. How does He keep that promise if you believe you can lose your salvation?

How do you explain 1 Peter 1:23, which tells us that when we are born again, we are born of incorruptable seed? If we can lose our salvation, then this seed is corruptable and that promise is not true.

Like Colosians 3:1-4, 1 John 3:2 says that we are sons of God now and that when Christ appears, we will be like Him. There is no qualifier. There is no "...if we don't lose our salvation".

Titus 1:2 says that God has promised us eternal life and that He never breaks a promise.

In John 10:27-29, Jesus promises us that He has given us eternal life, that we will never perish, and that we are not only in His hands, but in the Father's hands. How is Jesus' promise in John 10:27-28 consistent with the idea that we can lose our salvation? Is Jesus really incompetent to keep those whom the Father has given Him?

John 5:24 says that if we are saved, we will not come into condemnation but will have eternal life? How can Jesus promise that we will not come into condemnation if He knows we can lose our salvation?

Romans 11:6 tells us that salvation is not by works. If we cannot be saved by works, then how can we lose our salvation by works?

John 14:16-17 tells us that when we are saved, the Holy Spirit indwells us forever. How can the Holy Spirit indwell in us forever if we lose our salvation? Since when does the Holy Spirit dwell in the unsaved?

Ephesians 1:13, 4:30 tells us that we are sealed unto the day of redemption. If we lose our salvation, then how can we still claim to be sealed?

1 Peter 1:4 says that our salvation is "imperishable, undefiled, and unfading". If our salvation is imperishable, how can we lose it? If our salvation is promised by God to be undefiled, how can we defile it?

I would strongly encourage you to reconsider your denial of the Biblical doctrine of eternal security and its logical and Biblical consequences.
Now that you're done knocking down your strawman, how about pouring a bit of kero on it and setting it on fire?
 
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