Why are we so afraid of spiritual gifts?

[Naomi4Christ]

I am in training for ordination at a college in the Midlands (UK) and even here it seems difficult to find space in a service. We have managed to fill every bit of space up with liturgy and song and words and stuff. Sometimes I think God sits there and feels like saying "shut up so I can get a word in edgewise"...

That's a really good point, Kat.

I know that we occasionally have focus on prophecy during our evening services (no formal liturgy to adhere to) and our prayer meetings. We just sit for 5 minutes or so in silence to listen to God. Most of the time, we hear nothing, but occasionally some people share a few prophetic words. It is absolutely amazing when more than one person comes us with the same thing.

The key thing about prophesy is that it is encouraging and edifying.

 

[Father Rick]

Hey guys!

I'm fasting from CF for Lent (and it's killing me) so you're not seeing me around much, but I am checking in for pm's. Someone pm'd me about this thread and asked that I chime in, so I'll do so. Unfortunately, I won't be back for a while to read responses, so I hope I do a good job up front.

When it comes to spiritual gifts, many often think of the 9 manifestation gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12. If one looks at the greek, the word "gift" is actually not there. It actually says "Now concernings spirituals, brethren, I would not have you be ignorant." Later (as quoted above) it says "now the manifestation of the Spirit is given..." In short, the 9 "gifts" listed in that passage are simply 9 ways the Holy Spirit manifests Himself in and through believers. If you pray for someone and they are healed, then the "gift of healing" has been manifested. (Remember that Anointing of the Sick is a sacrament?) If you are praying for someone about a situation and God gives you supernatural insight into the situation, then "word of knowledge" or "word of wisdom" may be manifesting. Have you ever been in a prayer group of some kind and felt impressed by the Holy Spirit to pray for someone in particular-- or really felt that someone needed prayer about a specific situation? If you told the group "I feel that we need to pray for so-and-so", then you have just heard from God and spoken forth what God was saying-- in other words, you just prophesied. That's just a few examples, but I think it shows that many times these manifestations of the Holy Spirit aren't nearly as "flashy" as we think. Rather, God is working through His people in a simple, real way.

And remember, these are just 9 of the 30+ "charisms" (grace gifts) mentioned in scripture-- which include such diversity as celibacy, martyrdom, pastor, apostle, healing, helps, administrations, teacher, etc.


Now on a very pratical note...

At St. Thomas More, we deliberately make time to allow the Holy Spirit to manifest through various people. How? We basically have what would be termed a "healing mass". Our liturgy is very straightforward-- virtually identical to the Roman rite, except the peace is moved early like in the BoCP. HOWEVER, immediately following communion as everyone is returning to their seats, before the "prayer after communion" we have written into our liturgy one extra "step". It looks basically like this:
Anointing of the Sick
As the people continue in prayer/worship, those in need of anointing of the sick or other special prayer may come forward for ministry.

While people are coming to receive communion, we are usually singing an appropriate worship chorus. The music just continues for a few extra minutes. As people return to their seats and are privately in praying/worshipping etc. I step forward and make a general anouncement to the effect of "While Wade (my deacon) is clearing the altar, if there are any who may need special prayer, we'll be happy to pray with you."

There are usually several who come forward for prayer--for whatever the need may be. For those who need healing, we anoint them. For others, we pray for whatever need they may have. It is usually myself, our visiting priest (if he is there- about 2/3 of the time), my deacon (once he is finished clearing the altar), and I frequently signal a couple of the parishioners that I have worked with to come and pray with us as well. During this time, we have had a number of people healed from a variety of illnesses. We have seen exorcisms take place. Those who are ministering may have words of prophecy, etc. for those for whom they are praying. There have even been occasions when God has given me a prophetic word for individuals sitting/kneeling out in the congregation and I have simply walked out to where they are and ministered to them one on one.

When we are finished praying for everyone that wants prayer, I simply ask everyone to "please stand and join me on page ____ in your missal" and we go right into the prayers after communion/closing rites.

It is usually very simple and takes about 10 minutes or so to pray for everyone who wants prayer. (Our mass normally lasts about 1 hour 15 minutes total). On those occasions, however, when God has done something really "special", mass may last longer--but no one has ever complained about mass lasting an extra 15 minutes when they just saw God perform a miracle.

I hope this helps some.

God Bless-- see you guys again after Easter!

 

[Simon_Templar]

Thats very cool

 

[Naomi4Christ]

THanks for that, Rick.

 

[Yahweh Nissi]

Thanks everyone, especially Father Rick, this thread has been very interesting and thought provoking.

I am currently a church trainee (apprentice/lay worker/associate/whatever your church calls it if they have them), and from the conversations we have had about it I believe my minister and I are roughly on the same page regarding this issue - i.e. we are certainly not cessationists, but it would also be somewhat misleading to call us charismatics. Coincidentally (or not!) he is speaking on just this tonight from 1Cor, and this thread has motivated me to consider broaching with him how we might 'make room' for the kind of spiritual gifts being discussed in services. I would really appreciate people's prayers about this.

Thanks,
love YN.

 

[Timothy]

I wanna visit Fr. Rick's church.

Timothy

 

[ContraMundum]

So what is it about the gifts of the Spirit that do scare us so? Why do we so often reject our inheritance on this earth in order to live a life of nondescript Christianity?

The gifts are often mimicked. In fact, the charismatic gifts are easily mimicked. No one hear was present in the early church, nor do we know exactly what happened at pentecost. Hence, when someone hears what is claimed as "speaking in tongues" or "prophesying" they assume that what they witness is in fact those gifts. On the contrary, they could be counterfeit, inspired through psychological factors or even strange spirits.

When one looks at things logically, the idea that one can witness or claim a gift therefore they must have it or have seen it is a theological syllogism. Without a Divinely mandated assurance and guarantee of authenticity there is always going to be the possibility that the "gifts" being practiced are based on anything from demons to autosuggestion.

There is a safety mechanism found in scripture- that is, that we are not to find our assurances of God's favour, spiritual growth or doctrines in the gifts of the Spirit, but rather in the fruit of the Spirit. Christian experience is part of the faith. The Spirit bears witness in our hearts, but the result is that we cry "Abba, Father" and know of our salvation.

The Biblical gifts, on the other hand, were witnessed to, distributed by and authenticated by the ministry of the Apostles. There is no charismatic gift found anywhere in scripture outside of their authority. The Apostles appear to be the means and source of the occasion of the charismatic gifts in the church. They had the "signs of an Apostle", which were wonders and the like. It is obvious to any avid reader of the Bible that these gifts in Apostolic times were impossible to fake on the account of the oversight of the Apostles and the miraculous nature of their appearance. For example, the Apostolic church spoke in other, human, languages (previously unknown to the speaker) when they received the gift of tongues. Today, we hear what the dictionary would define as "gibberish", that is, unintelligible sounds, lacking all the things necessary for language. The lack of the miraculous is also the case for any of the other so-called charismatic gifts.

However, I am not closed to the possibility that God could maybe on occasion does revisit these gifts upon those who He deems require them at certain times and places. I don't understand how, but I as always remain open to the possibility. In this sense I am not a certain "cessationist".

The point I wish to press is that God's will is to make us perfect in love. Without love, having the gifts mean nothing. One can speak in tongues, prophesy, heal other or whatever, but still end up in Hell. However, when one is a child of God perfected in His Divine love one will most assuredly end up in Heaven. The evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in someone is not the charismata, but the fruit of the Spirit. When we ask God to send us a double portion of His Spirit, we should be seeking heart purity and fruit that will be for His glory that others might know Him too.


Isa 35:8 And a highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[karen freeinchristman]

The evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in someone is not the charismata, but the fruit of the Spirit. When we ask God to send us a double portion of His Spirit, we should be seeking heart purity and fruit that will be for His glory that others might know Him too.