Who says Christians are mistreated in Islamic countries?

[KarateCowboy]

It doesn't matter. Freedoms are about actions, not thoughts, and everyone has the freedom to follow Islam.

So they do not have the freedom to follow anything besides Islam? So they have Islamic freedom, but not religious freedom. Correct?

BTW, there is a good documentary called Facing Extinction: Assyrian Christians in Iraq. The things they suffer are unbelievable.

 

[SithDoughnut]

So they do not have the freedom to follow anything besides Islam? So they have Islamic freedom, but not religious freedom. Correct?

BTW, there is a good documentary called Facing Extinction: Assyrian Christians in Iraq. The things they suffer are unbelievable.

No society grants all freedoms. Christians and Muslims alike have the same freedoms in those countries, yet the Christians want special privileges above equality. They want what Islam clearly defines as wrong, and they want it from a position of equality. Some of them even choose to try to demand that everyone else be forced into allowing them their desires, with no respect towards Islamic beliefs. They're already equal, why should they have more?

You're getting the point of this thread though. You understand why this thread was created, right?

 

[KarateCowboy]

No society grants all freedoms. Christians and Muslims alike have the same freedoms in those countries, yet the Christians want special privileges above equality. They want what Islam clearly defines as wrong, and they want it from a position of equality. Some of them even choose to try to demand that everyone else be forced into allowing them their desires, with no respect towards Islamic beliefs. They're already equal, why should they have more?

You're getting the point of this thread though. You understand why this thread was created, right?

Yes. I believe in the allegory Christianity represents an emotional disorder and lifestyle surrounding it when it is embraced.

 

[Archer93]

Yes. I believe in the allegory Christianity represents an emotional disorder and lifestyle surrounding it when it is embraced.

Oh, I wouldn't say Christianity is an emotional disorder.
It is a lifestyle, though.

 

[buKareem]

Saudi Arabia is not a good example to measure Christians' rights in an Islamic country. In fact, most of non wahhabi people are discriminated against if not all in one way or another. I know that there are people who grow up their beards when applying for jobs and in interviews so they get preferred and employed faster, then they just shave off.



I would like to contribute to this thread with a little story to show how Islam is peaceful and provide freedom (Only if taking Islam from the twelve Imams prophet Mohammed told about)

At the time when Imam Ali ( first Imam of shiea belief) was the crown leader, there was a Christian minister in the Islamic state inviting people to Christianity some people did not like that and arrested him and took him to Imam Ali. They said this guy is trying to convert people to Christianity what are your orders? The Imam said what should I do to him! Leave him alone, people have their minds and can chose their path.


Imam Ali was fought and then assassinated. One of the reasons is because he eliminated classism and treated all people as comb teeth. Then, all kinds of bad people took the lead, invented some new Islamic laws, eliminated others, discriminated and classified, so the the image of their version of Islam now shines around the globe.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

Did you know that in even the most pro-Islamic nation, Christians have the same rights and are treated equally as everyone else. They can become Muslims and be treated like any other Muslim. This is the exact same way every other person, including all Muslims, are treated. Them not getting a special exception is not being treated unequally or discriminated against. So why do people keep claiming they are discriminated against?

I see what you did there.



I also see how many people got tripped up by your fabulous play on that old cliched argument of "you can do _____ just like everyone else, so you aren't being oppressed/mistreated/etc".

 

[KarateCowboy]

I see what you did there.



I also see how many people got tripped up by your fabulous play on that old cliched argument of "you can do _____ just like everyone else, so you aren't being oppressed/mistreated/etc".

Ultimately it's comparing apples to iPads. Religion is not by definition exclusively one faith

 

[Fenny the Fox]

Ultimately it's comparing apples to iPads. Religion is not by definition exclusively one faith

This is true.
And the post can still be overall applicable regardless.

-"You can be Muslim just like everyone else..."
-"You can be Christian just like everyone else."..
-"You can be Jewish just like everyone else..."
-"You can be __fill in the blank__ just like everyone else...

and you are not being mistreated"

This only, really, applies to the open profession, not the faith at heart [so to speak]. In times of duress and oppression it is not unusual for a person of any faith to claim a religion that does not necessarily align with said claimed faith. For self-preservation and so forth.

The overall parallelism to the cliche I pointed out is not altered by this fact. It is still applicable in the same fashion.



And to the certain "emotional disorder and lifestyle surrounding it when it is embraced", it can apply, sure - if you wish the post to be allegorical, since it is not stated directly by lawton that this is the case.

 

[SithDoughnut]

Ultimately it's comparing apples to iPads. Religion is not by definition exclusively one faith

No, but that doesn't make any difference to the OP.

 

[Jazer]

In many Islamic countries a person can be executed for converting to Christianity

It depends on what you mean by convert. They would get executed for a public confession. They break the law when they tell people about their conversion or if they try to convert others. Some people think you have to make a public confession to be a Christian, but I tend not to agree with that. Living the Christian life is a lot more important than talking about it. We maybe called and rewarded for giving a testimony, but I do not think our salvation depends on it. We should follow the law. If we break the law then we should be prepared to endure the consequencs. I would advise someone in a Muslim country to follow their law.

 

[wanderingone]

The usual response to arguments that are potentially true and unpopular.

I ask if there's an emoticon that refers to a point going right over the head (which is meant to refer to most if not all of the responses to the OP at that point) and you say it's the "usual response" to "arguments that...."

You need an over the head emoticon yourself because your point has gone right past me... I have no idea what you are trying to say.

I would take the OP's post to be pointing to a specific bit of discrimination but also think it can be applied across the board to all areas where supporters of discrimination claim that individuals are not being discriminated against, that they can do X, Y and Z, they just have to do those things in the specific government/socially/culturally approved way. If the people whining would just clean up their act and stop whining they would see they were free to be like everyone else.

 

[EyesOfKohl]

Did you know that in even the most pro-Islamic nation, Christians have the same rights and are treated equally as everyone else. They can become Muslims and be treated like any other Muslim. This is the exact same way every other person, including all Muslims, are treated. Them not getting a special exception is not being treated unequally or discriminated against. So why do people keep claiming they are discriminated against?

I suppose you don't class Pakistani Christians being persecuted then?

These protestors who have suffered persecution by Muslims for their Christian beliefs, are just protesting for no reason or meaning?

You don't know what they go through each day, their homes are burnt, the women are raped, both men are women are beaten, some even burned alive. That's not discrimination, huh?

This just doesn't happen in Pakistan either! It happens in nearly every other Islamic country.

Blessed are you whenever they curse you and they persecute you and they say every evil word about you falsely because of me. - Matthew 5:11

It's even more difficult for Muslims who give up their beliefs to follow Christ. There are more than enough testimonies of people like this, you wouldn't know what courage was until reading what they had to go through.

Even in Saudi Arabia, they have different road lanes in some cities, one for the 'non-believers' and the other for 'Muslims'.

Please open your eyes, instead of sitting behind your computer in a safe country where you have freedom of belief and saying they don't get discriminated against.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I suppose you don't class Pakistani Christians being persecuted then?

Nope, all they have to do is become a Muslim and no more persecution. And any Muslims who acts like them, who becomes Christian, will be treated just the same as any Christian who does the same.

You don't know what they go through each day, their homes are burnt, the women are raped, both men are women are beaten, some even burned alive. That's not discrimination, huh?

All because they insist on being different. There is nothing stopping them from being treated like the Muslims are except their own stubbornness to not change.

 

[EyesOfKohl]

Nope, all they have to do is become a Muslim and no more persecution. And any Muslims who acts like them, who becomes Christian, will be treated just the same as any Christian who does the same.

You're suggesting that Christians should change to suit Muslim standards?

All because they insist on being different. There is nothing stopping them from being treated like the Muslims are except their own stubbornness to not change.

Why should they change their beliefs?

 

[Skaloop]

Why should they change their beliefs?

They don't have to. They can keep their beliefs. But they shouldn't be asking for special rights when everybody already has the same religious rights to be Muslim, they just choose not to. But they have the right to be Muslim just like everyone else. Instead, they choose to be Christian. It's their choice As long as they keep quiet about it and don't flaunt their Christian lifestyle, it generally won't be a problem.

 

[SithDoughnut]

You're suggesting that Christians should change to suit Muslim standards?

Why should they have special rights? They have the same rights as everyone else, they just want more and they whine about the rest of society trying to protect itself from their disruptive lifestyles.

Why should they change their beliefs?

Why should they get special privileges? They already have equal rights. It's not their beliefs that are the issue, it's the Christian lifestyle that is a danger. Many of those Christians are undoubtedly trying to recruit innocent people into their sinful lifestyle. Christians are free to believe what they wish; they are not free to force everyone else to celebrate it. The west is slowly fighting back but it will take time, so it's understandable that Muslim societies to not wish to be destroyed in a similar way.

 

[Hakan101]

Why should they have special rights? They have the same rights as everyone else, they just want more and they whine about the rest of society trying to protect itself from their disruptive lifestyles.

Why should they get special privileges? They already have equal rights. It's not their beliefs that are the issue, it's the Christian lifestyle that is a danger. Many of those Christians are undoubtedly trying to recruit innocent people into their sinful lifestyle. Christians are free to believe what they wish; they are not free to force everyone else to celebrate it. The west is slowly fighting back but it will take time, so it's understandable that Muslim societies to not wish to be destroyed in a similar way.

What do you mean by sinful lifestyle? Can you give some examples? How are those people who get recruited "innocent", when everyone is a sinner?

 

[Skaloop]

What do you mean by sinful lifestyle?

Practicing Christianity, and more specifically flaunting it. In the eyes of Muslims, that would be a sin. Just as in the eyes of a Christian, practicing Islam is a sin. But in a Muslim country, living the Christian lifestyle would be seen as sinful by most.

Can you give some examples? How are those people who get recruited "innocent", when everyone is a sinner?

They're innocent of being Christian. They're doing nothing wrong, then Christian predators come to convert them. They are targeted and recruited by Christians and turned into Christians. They are led into a lifestyle of that sin.

 

[SithDoughnut]

What do you mean by sinful lifestyle?

Well, not following the rules clearly laid out in the Qur'an, for a start.

How are those people who get recruited "innocent", when everyone is a sinner?

This is merely another Christian attempt to deny the truth. The Qur'an clearly states that a sin is an act, not a state of being. I'm sure most people will commit some sins, but then Christians come and try to pressure them into sinning even further, and with an even worse sin: turning from Allah.

I never realised how much of a parallel this really is.

 

[Tergle]

Did you know that in even the most pro-Islamic nation, Christians have the same rights and are treated equally as everyone else. They can become Muslims and be treated like any other Muslim. This is the exact same way every other person, including all Muslims, are treated. Them not getting a special exception is not being treated unequally or discriminated against. So why do people keep claiming they are discriminated against?

Sarcasm that may be misplaced.

A lot of Christians are killed in Islamic countries. And all are subjugated.