Who is the 12th apostle?

[Deme]

Hi,

I am new and first time to here.

I recently surf the Internet and see many different ideas of "the 12th apostle".

Many of those consider Matthias is not the real 12th apostle. Matthias worte a Gospel, right? But not in the canon, right? Then, he is not qualified to be the 12th to replace Judas?

Also a Gospel of Judas, right?

Anyhow, just use google to search the 12th apostle, you will find so many different ideas!

Why even such a fundatmental thing confused?

God bless

 

[Floatingaxe]

Hi,

I am new and first time to here.

I recently surf the Internet and see many different ideas of "the 12th apostle".

Many of those consider Matthias is not the real 12th apostle. Matthias worte a Gospel, right? But not in the canon, right? Then, he is not qualified to be the 12th to replace Judas?

Also a Gospel of Judas, right?

Anyhow, just use google to search the 12th apostle, you will find so many different ideas!

Why even such a fundatmental thing confused?

God bless

Are you confused? Why shouldn't Matthias have been the twelfth disciple? Why was he not qualified, in your opinion? Seems to me, the others voted him as the replacement for Judas, so why can't you have the confidence in those men of God to choose the right one?

 

[New_Wineskin]

Hi,

I am new and first time to here.

I recently surf the Internet and see many different ideas of "the 12th apostle".

Many of those consider Matthias is not the real 12th apostle. Matthias worte a Gospel, right? But not in the canon, right? Then, he is not qualified to be the 12th to replace Judas?

Also a Gospel of Judas, right?

Anyhow, just use google to search the 12th apostle, you will find so many different ideas!

Why even such a fundatmental thing confused?

God bless

The author of the writing that people call "Acts" does not say that Peter spoke by the Spirit or that Peter correctly interpreted the passage in thinking that a replacement was needed .

 

[Deme]

Hi,

I am new and first time to here.

I recently surf the Internet and see many different ideas of "the 12th apostle".

Many of those consider Matthias is not the real 12th apostle. Matthias worte a Gospel, right? But not in the canon, right? Then, he is not qualified to be the 12th to replace Judas?

Also a Gospel of Judas, right?

Anyhow, just use google to search the 12th apostle, you will find so many different ideas!

Why even such a fundatmental thing confused?

God bless

Quoted from (link removed)

If I were present I may have asked Peter the following:

1. Yes Judas will be replaced, but why do you think it's necessary RIGHT NOW? Can't the Lord chose the timing, just the Lord choses the timing concerning the coming of the kingdom and not us?
2. Why not wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit before making such a decision?
3. In fact why not let the Holy Spirit make the decision rather than ourselves choosing the candidates?
For each apostle was not chosen by mutual consent, but by the Lord himself. And after the Lord Himself fulfilled the scripture personally chosing Paul as the 12th apostle, as he writes in many places of his experience in being chosen in Acts 9 saying, "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God" I would ask Peter "what's up with that?"
​

IF Matthias is the right one why Christ select Paul?

 

[New_Wineskin]

The Lord selected Paul as an apostle but that doesn't mean that he was selected as a replacement to Judas . There were other apostles besides the 12 and Paul .

 

[Deme]

The Lord selected Paul as an apostle but that doesn't mean that he was selected as a replacement to Judas . There were other apostles besides the 12 and Paul .

"The apostles choose Matthias as Judas’ replacement (Acts 1), even though they were instructed to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4-5). We never hear of Matthias again, and yet Paul seems to be God’s choice as the 12th apostle..." ,
from: (link removed)

 

[Deme]

I show you one more:

"I agree there were 12 original Apostles, with one the son of perdition. Then peter added one. And then the Lord added Paul.
I wonder was the one Peter added God’s will? "

from (link removed)

 

[HypnoToad]

"The apostles choose Matthias as Judas’ replacement (Acts 1), even though they were instructed to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4-5). We never hear of Matthias again, and yet Paul seems to be God’s choice as the 12th apostle..." ,
from: (link removed)

It says they were to wait for the Holy Spirit before leaving Jerusalem, it doesn't say they had to wait for the Holy Spirit before choosing a replacement.

Actually, I don't see a problem with 13 apostles.

One for each tribe of Israel, and then one for the Gentiles.

So, there's no reason why BOTH Matthias and Paul are acceptable as "apostles". Unless, of course, someone can provide Scripture that states only 12 are allowed.

 

[Floatingaxe]

"The apostles choose Matthias as Judas’ replacement (Acts 1), even though they were instructed to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4-5). We never hear of Matthias again, and yet Paul seems to be God’s choice as the 12th apostle..." ,
from: (link removed)

What do you mean, "even though" as if they were disobedient??

You are talking about apples and oranges!

The selection of another disciple is not anything to do with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Paul was God's choice FOR AN apostle. Why the big issue?

 

[Deme]

lRev. 21:14 shows only 12 apo. of the Lamb like foundations. No 13th. Which is the foundation you are built most likely between Paul and Matthias? Then, we non Jews believers are built on which foundation? Not Paul's?

The way to get Matthais is convincible?
God ask them to wait not act, then, how their acts are proved by God?

I consider should be Paul.

 

[HypnoToad]

Matthias worte a Gospel, right? But not in the canon, right? Then, he is not qualified to be the 12th to replace Judas?

Just to comment on that -

Apostleship is not dependent on having a letter included in Scripture. The rejection of a gospel by Matthias would NOT be because Matthias is rejected as an apostle, but because the writing is likely not authentic - not actually written by Matthias.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Rev. 21:14 shows only 12 apo. of the Lamb like foundations. No 13th. Which is the foundation you are built most likely between Paul and Matthias? Then, we non Jews believers are built on which foundation? Not Paul's?

The way to get Matthais is convincible?
God ask them to wait not act, then, how their acts are proved by God?

I consider should be Paul.

Your whole idea makes no sense.

What is wrong with establishing another disciple? There were hundreds of them! God never instructed them to wait for anything like that...

 

[HypnoToad]

Rev. 21:14 shows only 12 apo. of the Lamb like foundations. No 13th.

Yeah, but that isn't conclusive. It says "of the lamb" - during Jesus' ministry, He had 12 disciples, so it could just be representative of that.

Which is the foundation you are built most likely between Paul and Matthias? Then, we non Jews believers are built on which foundation? Not Paul's?

The way to get Matthais is convincible?

I consider should be Paul.

Can you rephrase all of that? The grammar/syntax is not understandable.

God ask them to wait not act, then, how their acts are proved by God?

Again, the text instructs not to leave Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit comes. It does NOT say, "don't do ANYTHING at all".

 

[Deme]

I show you one more link

Which is the foundation you are built most likely between Paul and Matthias?


Sorry! I mean your faith by reading Bible bases on whose teaching, Matthias or Paul? In the New Jerusalem, you will thank Paul or Matthias?

For me, I thank Paul for he helped me to touch faith in Christ much more than Matthias.

Paul's name is not in one of the 12 foundations of the wall of the New Jerusalem? Is this fair?

Let say IF Peter and others did not select the right one, or, Matthias is not the one in God's eye, just temporary IF, OK? Then, to look at the whole picture, isn't that wonderful that Jesus selected the 13th to replace the 12th! Just temporary forget about Matthias, Jesus only selceted 13 persons, the 12th gone, the 13th selected later, perfect isn't it?

 

[Deme]

the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

in Acts 4:8,31; 9:17;13:9, it used pletho for fill.
Yet, in 13:52, it used pleroo for fill.

At least, two kinds of being filled with Holy Spirit.

you meant this?

 

[Floatingaxe]

in Acts 4:8,31; 9:17;13:9, it used pletho for fill.
Yet, in 13:52, it used pleroo for fill.

At least, two kinds of being filled with Holy Spirit.

you meant this?

Huh??????????

 

[Floatingaxe]

I show you one more link

Which is the foundation you are built most likely between Paul and Matthias?


Sorry! I mean your faith by reading Bible bases on whose teaching, Matthias or Paul? In the New Jerusalem, you will thank Paul or Matthias?

For me, I thank Paul for he helped me to touch faith in Christ much more than Matthias.

Paul's name is not in one of the 12 foundations of the wall of the New Jerusalem? Is this fair?

Let say IF Peter and others did not select the right one, or, Matthias is not the one in God's eye, just temporary IF, OK? Then, to look at the whole picture, isn't that wonderful that Jesus selected the 13th to replace the 12th! Just temporary forget about Matthias, Jesus only selceted 13 persons, the 12th gone, the 13th selected later, perfect isn't it?

Paul's name is not in one of the 12 foundations of the wall of the New Jerusalem? Is this fair?

Whatever God does is fair. Who are we to question?

 

[New_Wineskin]

"The apostles choose Matthias as Judas’ replacement (Acts 1), even though they were instructed to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4-5). We never hear of Matthias again, and yet Paul seems to be God’s choice as the 12th apostle..." ,
from: (link removed)

Did the author of that quote mention where in the writing called "Acts" it is mentioned that Paul was the Lord's choice to replace Judas ? Barnabas did a lot with Paul and was even the one to bring Paul to the other apostles .

"Seems" is a bit iffy if the author of the quote is making a doctrine out of it .

 

[New_Wineskin]

I show you one more:

"I agree there were 12 original Apostles, with one the son of perdition. Then peter added one. And then the Lord added Paul.
I wonder was the one Peter added God’s will? "

from (link removed)

Yeah . Again , the author decided to skip others that were others referred to as "apostles" besides Paul and Matthias . It is easy to get rid of Mathias because it is not mentioned that Peter was speaking via the Holy Spirit . Yet , at the same time , that is where Peter interpreted the passage as being about their situation . Jesus spent time with them after His ressurection and didn't appoint another one in that time . I see no reason to think that Peter was correct in his interpretation but incorrect in the choice . I consider that he was incorrect in both .

 

[Deme]

Dear, so you do believe that the twelve apostle of the Lamb in Rev 21:14 there God meant Matthias?

Denominations traditionally teaches so and insist so most likely.

God does not list Matthias' name in this verse, why men insist God chose Matthias?
By casting lots to convince Matthias' choosing by God?

We out of denominations perhaps should excersie our feeling within more than heads.

Isn't that beautiful that Paul is the chosen 13th to replace the chosen 12th and included in the 12 apostle of the Lamb, just when you temporary put aside Matthias? So, there is no further words need from God.

If Matthias is but Paul is not, there causes at least "discussing" like to us now. It is not beautiful as what I just said. Christians therefore love God more or love God less. Try to touch your feeling. I can not let you agree with me by reasons. Yet, through feeling, can you feel my thankfulness on looking this beautiful picture within?

Dear ones, pls change another way and try to enjoy my feeling on looking this so beautiful picture within with smiling. Are you 100% sure that Matthias must be the twelve apostle of the Lamb? Are you forcing that Paul can't be? Let Christ announce it but let us to enjoy this picture first!

Which way do you enjoy God's arrangement more?