Who do you say Jesus is?

[Phil 1:21]

Crucifixion was a Roman method of execution. Stoning to death would have been the Jewish punishment.

Read it again. Thanks.

 

[danny ski]

Amazing considering the wealth of evidence that Jesus Christ is the son of God and the Messiah. What specific evidence do Jewish people look for?

Yeah, we looked at that "evidence" then and since and found it wanting. But, put the Temple back where it belongs and bring in the end to wars- I know, small details- and we might reconsider. Talk is cheap, after all.

 

[ChavaK]

Yeah, we looked at that "evidence" then and since and found it wanting. But, put the Temple back where it belongs and bring in the end to wars- I know, small details- and we might reconsider. Talk is cheap, after all.

This is why I usually try to avoid such questions as these....it always turns into an attempt to convert us.

 

[Phil 1:21]

This is why I usually try to avoid such questions as these....it always turns into an attempt to convert us.

I would expect nothing less on a Christian web site.

 

[ChavaK]

I would expect nothing less on a Christian web site.

Of course, but it also happens on non-Christian sites. An innocent question turns out not to be so innocent....
So best to avoid them, although once in awhile I will chime in.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Of course, but it also happens on non-Christian sites. An innocent questions turns out not to be so innocent....
So best to avoid them, although once in awhile I will chime in.

God did command us to share the Gospel with nonbelievers (Matthew 28:16-20). So long as it's done with grace, I would be happy someone was concerned enough about me to do so.

 

[Arius]

Yes.
Isaiah 2:1-4

How do you understand Isaiah 2- (whole chapter)? Is this not talking about the 1,000 year reign of Christ that's coming soon?

God bless you.

 

[Arius]

Yeah, we looked at that "evidence" then and since and found it wanting. But, put the Temple back where it belongs and bring in the end to wars- I know, small details- and we might reconsider. Talk is cheap, after all.

Shalom danny ski.
I know what you mean by; "looking at the evidence, and found it wanting", .. and this comes from a Jew raised as a Christian in a Christian home.
For me, it's not the Bible, either the O.T. or the N.T. that's 'wanting', .. it is what I have seen, heard and felt from the Jew first, then from the Christian Religion starting with the Creators of the Christian Religion (Roman Catholic), down to it's last denomination/no denominations.

I have talked/debated with many Jews, and I feel that the biggest error they make is considering Jesus Christ a "Christian", .. or as if he, or his Apostles started the Christian Religion.

This goes not just for Jews, but Gentiles who over the past 1,700 years have been duped into believing that just because the R.C. Christian Religion took possession of the Jewish scrolls, letters, books and implemented them into their pagan Religion, that either God/YHWH or His son Word aka Jeshua/Jesus is actually the Biblical "Creator" and his son "Word".
Well, it's time to wake up, because:
They Are NOT!

And the sad part is, that it's not that hard to spot! I spotted it, and this happened while I was debating AS a Christian, against atheists, both Jews and Gentiles alike.

So now neither Jew or Gentile has an excuse on that Last Great Day of our Lord, and my humble but urgent message is that everyone better wake up, go and get some oil in your lamps so you will not be found like the "Five Foolish Virgins" in Jesus's story, and hear that awful response from the One you thought you (Gentile Christians) were worshipping, and the one us (Jews) rejected;

Mathew 7:
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Now ask me, (if you care) both Jew or Gentile: "What do you mean by the above quote, since that does not pertain to us!?"

God bless us all with Spiritual sight so that we could truly see!

 

[Arius]

Of course, but it also happens on non-Christian sites. An innocent questions turns out not to be so innocent....
So best to avoid them, although once in awhile I will chime in.

The Jew Jeshua said (which is just one of the reasons Jews wouldn't accept him, and why Gentiles confuse him with someone else):

Christ Brings Division
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

 

[Randy777]

This is why I usually try to avoid such questions as these....it always turns into an attempt to convert us.

You would go democrat? (smile)
It not possible for us to convert you as you yourself would have to go to Jesus for life. I would think that considering the NT testimony that you would at least sincerely ask God if Jesus is the Christ the Son of God for your own sake not "ours".

According to Psalms 2 the world will object in vain to Gods anointed. And Gods enemies are destroyed in the end and the dead are resurrected as in Daniel 12. Then there will be peace and a gathering from the ends of the heavens not just people on earth. Some to everlasting life and others to everlasting contempt. Then there will be a everlasting Kingdom that can't be destroyed ruled by a faithful high priest appointed the line of David. Flesh and blood can't inherit eternity in a everlasting kingdom.

 

[danny ski]

Shalom danny ski.
I know what you mean by; "looking at the evidence, and found it wanting", .. and this comes from a Jew raised as a Christian in a Christian home.
For me, it's not the Bible, either the O.T. or the N.T. that's 'wanting', .. it is what I have seen, heard and felt from the Jew first, then from the Christian Religion starting with the Creators of the Christian Religion (Roman Catholic), down to it's last denomination/no denominations.

I have talked/debated with many Jews, and I feel that the biggest error they make is considering Jesus Christ a "Christian", .. or as if he, or his Apostles started the Christian Religion.

This goes not just for Jews, but Gentiles who over the past 1,700 years have been duped into believing that just because the R.C. Christian Religion took possession of the Jewish scrolls, letters, books and implemented them into their pagan Religion, that either God/YHWH or His son Word aka Jeshua/Jesus is actually the Biblical "Creator" and his son "Word".
Well, it's time to wake up, because:
They Are NOT!

And the sad part is, that it's not that hard to spot! I spotted it, and this happened while I was debating AS a Christian, against atheists, both Jews and Gentiles alike.

So now neither Jew or Gentile has an excuse on that Last Great Day of our Lord, and my humble but urgent message is that everyone better wake up, go and get some oil in your lamps so you will not be found like the "Five Foolish Virgins" in Jesus's story, and hear that awful response from the One you thought you (Gentile Christians) were worshipping, and the one us (Jews) rejected;

Mathew 7:
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Now ask me, (if you care) both Jew or Gentile: "What do you mean by the above quote, since that does not pertain to us!?"

God bless us all with Spiritual sight so that we could truly see!

I disagree. The biggest mistake was turning Jesus into a god. Jesus a Jewish teacher(or whatever other title) had a place and role among us. Maybe. The deified Jesus is an abomination. Only confirmed by his followers' treatment of us throughout centuries. You should know that, if you were a Jew - even a Christian one. The issue of rejection of Jesus is not a secret. He failed as a potential messiah.

 

[Arius]

I disagree. The biggest mistake was turning Jesus into a god.

Shalom Danny
I agree 100% .. But who did that?
It was the gentile Emperor Constantine, and the Roman Catholic Religion 1,700 years ago, who, over the past 1,700 years just about wiped out, .. that Jewish led Church that the Apostles through the power of the Holy Spirit that Jesus sent after his ascension, established all over the world.

Jesus was the first of all of Gods creations, John 1:1- explains this, and He NEVER claimed he was God, but pointed out over and over again that he was the "son of God", after whose image God created Eve (Adam after the image of God), and Eve after the image of His son Word aka Jesus Christ.

Jesus a Jewish teacher(or whatever other title) had a place and role among us. Maybe.

Maybe? Have you read and studied the New Testament before you threw Jesus in the box we Jews labeled "Maybe"? I have, .. but first, I had to climb out of the box called "Religion" before anything of greater significance stated to make sense to me.

The deified Jesus is an abomination.

Once again I agree with you 100%, .. "The deified Jesus IS an abomination" before our God, the God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob, .. where through our father Jacob He becomes the God of the Jews, for salvation comes from the Jews. John 4:21-23

Deifying a man like what Pharaohs used to be, .. or even a fallen angel, and then turning, or inquiring of these deities either directly, or through a medium (like Christian Diviners who got their degree in Divination from Schools of Divinity) in place of God is an abomination!
Jeremiah 14:14
And the Lord said to me, “The prophets prophesy lies in My name. I have not sent them, commanded them, nor spoken to them; they prophesy to you a false vision, divination, a worthless thing, and the deceit of their heart.
Leviticus 19:26
‘You shall not eat anything with the blood, nor shall you practice divination or soothsaying.

7 times in Ezekiel,

and here:
Acts 16:16 Now it happened, as we went to prayer, that a certain slave girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much profit by fortune-telling.

Only confirmed by his followers' treatment of us throughout centuries. You should know that, if you were a Jew - even a Christian one.

Yes, I now know that, only what I have learned was that it was NOT Jesus followers, but Gentile imposters, starting with Emperor Constantine and his Catholic Religion, who took our scrolls and other writings and claimed it as their own. By this they also "deified" Jesus into their sun-god, their "morning star Lucifer".
This is no longer a secret;

The issue of rejection of Jesus is not a secret. He failed as a potential messiah.

.. according to the Jews, Christians and their newly chosen Messiah the Pope;

Failed? .. NOT according to the prophesies made by all our Prophets, for he fulfilled every last one of them. (about 400 prophesies)

time 0:30 -

Which prophesies did you personally feel that he didn't fulfill?

 

[Randy777]

It does not matter who was to blame for nailing Jesus to the cross as Jesus forgave that sin, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

But Peter an eyewitness and Apostle stated the facts of the event
Acts 2:23
Peter was addressing the crowd (fellow Israelites)
This man was handed over to you by God's deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I would expect nothing less on a Christian web site.

It's not our job as Christians to convert others. I know that idea is going to be controversial in the minds of Evangelicals who have been raised to believe that every Christian is a missionary and it is the personal responsibility of every Christian to "win souls" or "bring people to Jesus". But not only is it not our job to convert people, we can't--because conversion is a supernatural act of God. At no point does Holy Scripture command every Christian to be a missionary or try and convert others, though many passages are taken out of context to try and guilt trip the Faithful into thinking it is not only their responsibility to convert others, but that if they aren't converting others then they are in some way responsible for the damnation of their friends and neighbors.

I recall many times in my youth being told the same story of imagining a friend, burning in hell, crying out my name asking why I didn't try harder to get them saved. Want to know how to screw with someone's head? That's a good way to do it.

Anyway, I realize that I'm a guest here and am probably overstepping my bounds by engaging in debate, I apologize.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Read it again. Thanks.

All four Gospels agree that it was the Romans that executed Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Phil 1:21]

All four Gospels agree that it was the Romans that executed Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

Actually not amazing at all considering they had Him nailed to a tree.

Important part denoted. Thanks.

 

[Randy777]

It's not our job as Christians to convert others. I know that idea is going to be controversial in the minds of Evangelicals who have been raised to believe that every Christian is a missionary and it is the personal responsibility of every Christian to "win souls" or "bring people to Jesus". But not only is it not our job to convert people, we can't--because conversion is a supernatural act of God. At no point does Holy Scripture command every Christian to be a missionary or try and convert others, though many passages are taken out of context to try and guilt trip the Faithful into thinking it is not only their responsibility to convert others, but that if they aren't converting others then they are in some way responsible for the damnation of their friends and neighbors.

I recall many times in my youth being told the same story of imagining a friend, burning in hell, crying out my name asking why I didn't try harder to get them saved. Want to know how to screw with someone's head? That's a good way to do it.

Anyway, I realize that I'm a guest here and am probably overstepping my bounds by engaging in debate, I apologize.

-CryptoLutheran

To lead anyone to Jesus for "their" salvation is a work of "love" and is lawful.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

[ViaCrucis]

To lead anyone to Jesus for "their" salvation is a work of "love" and is lawful.

We don't lead anyone to Jesus. That is what the Holy Spirit does by granting us faith through the Means of Grace. We can tell people about Jesus, we can share our hope and faith in Him and His Gospel; but we can't make anyone a believer. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ (Romans 1:17).

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Yes, the Church makes disciples by preaching the Gospel, baptizing, and teaching the faith to the baptized.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Randy777]

We don't lead anyone to Jesus. That is what the Holy Spirit does by granting us faith through the Means of Grace. We can tell people about Jesus, we can share our hope and faith in Him and His Gospel; but we can't make anyone a believer. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ (Romans 1:17).


CryptoLutheran

God uses us as his witnesses. The Spirit can speak through the saints.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Which many do preach from. So are you actively opposed to evangelizing? Why? Paul and others debated for the sake of others that they may be saved. They were commanded to stop speaking about Jesus but they never did. I didn't state the HS wasn't needed I stated such work is a work of love and is lawful.

 

[ViaCrucis]

God uses us as his witnesses. The Spirit can speak through the saints.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Which many do preach from. So are you actively opposed to evangelizing? Why? Paul and others debated for the sake of others that they may be saved. They were commanded to stop speaking about Jesus but they never did. I didn't state the HS wasn't needed I stated such work is a work of love and is lawful.

I'm for evangelism--the proclamation of the Gospel. What I disagree with is the idea that we can make other people Christians. I can't bring someone to Jesus, Jesus brings people to Himself. It's about understanding that God works through the Means of Grace to accomplish His purposes, the Church is the instrument through the Means are found--preaching the Word and administering the Sacraments--but as an individual it is not in my power or ability to make someone else believe. I can't make another person believe, I can't argue or debate or reason a person into faith--because faith isn't something that comes by reason, intuition, or argument; faith comes extra nos, from outside ourselves, as a supernatural gift of God apart from us.

I'm not going to make anyone a Christian by arguing with them, or trying to convince them through the use of rhetoric or reason. Evangelism, the proclaiming of the Gospel, is a very different thing than arguing a person into believing. If someone asks me about my faith, I am happy to share with them my faith and hope--but as St. Peter says it must be done with gentleness and respect.

-CryptoLutheran