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Where was the Jewish temple located?

BABerean2

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Much speculation has occurred of a rebuilt Jewish temple.
What was the original site of the temple?

Every year thousands of people visit the modern city of Jerusalem and visit the area now known as "The Temple Mount".
The tour guides tell tourists "The Wailing Wall" is part of the remains of the ancient temple.

What is wrong with this picture?

In Matthew 24:1-2, and Luke 19:41-44, Jesus said not one stone would be left on top of another at the temple, and in the city.


Based on the research of Bob Cornuke and others, it has now been revealed that the true site of the temple was at the Gihon Spring, and the area now called "The Temple Mount" is actually the remains of Roman Fort Antonia.

Further proof is found below in the writings of the Roman historian Tacitus, who said a "never-failing" spring was located at the temple site.

-----------------------------------------------------

From the Roman historian Tacitus.

The Jews Book Five (1-13) of The Histories by Tacitus

11. So after encamping, as I have said, before the walls of Jerusalem, he paraded his legions in formation before the eyes of the enemy. The Jews, marshalled close under their walls, were in a position to venture further out if they were successful and had a place of refuge ready at hand in case of defeat. Titus sent against them cavalry and some cohorts in battle order, but the encounter was indecisive. Then the enemy gave ground, and for some days thereafter fought a succession of engagements just in front of the gates. Finally, repeated losses drove them behind the walls. The Romans then concentrated on an assault. After all, it seemed beneath them to wait for hunger to do its work on the enemy, and the troops actually asked to be allowed to risk their lives. Some did so because they had real courage, many from mere bravado and a desire for rewards. As for Titus, his imagination dwelt on Rome, wealth and pleasure: it would be long before these dreams were realized if Jerusalem were destined not to fall in the immediate future.

But the city occupied a commanding position, and it had been reinforced by engineering works so massive that they might have rendered even a flat site impregnable. Two lofty hills were enclosed by walls skilfully staggered and forming re-entrant angles designed to expose the flank of an attacker. At the edge of the crags was a sharp drop, and a series of towers dominated the scene, 105 feet high where the rising ground helped, and 135 or 120 feet high on the lower contours. (19) These presented an impressive appearance, and to the distant observer seemed to be on a level. There were further walls inside around the palace, and a conspicuous landmark was the lofty castle of Antonia, so named by Herod in honour of Mark Antony.

12. The Temple was like a citadel and had its own walls, which had been even more laboriously and skilfully constructed than the rest. The porticoes around it constituted in themselves an excellent defensive position. To these advantages must be added a spring of never-failing water, chambers cut in the living rock, and tanks and cisterns for the storage of rainwater. Its builders had foreseen only too well that the strange practices of the Jews would lead to continual fighting. Hence everything was available for a siege, however long. Moreover, after Pompey's capture of Jerusalem, fear and experience taught them many lessons. So taking advantage of the money-grubbing instincts of the Claudian period, they purchased permission to fortify the city, and in the days of peace built walls meant for war. Already the home of a motley concourse, its population had been swollen by the fall of the other Jewish cities, for the most determined partisan leaders escaped to the capital, and thereby added to the turmoil. There were three different leaders and three armies. The long outer perimeter of the walls was held by Simon, the central part of the city by John, and the Temple by Eleazar. John and Simon could rely on numbers and equipment, Eleazar on his strategic position. But it was upon each other that they turned the weapons of battle, ambush and fire, and great stocks of corn went up in flames. Then John sent off a party of men, ostensibly to offer sacrifice but in reality to cut Eleazar and his followers to pieces, thus gaining possession of the Temple. Hence-forward, therefore, Jerusalem was divided between two factions, until, on the approach of the Romans, fighting the foreigner healed the breach between them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Why does this matter?

It proves the truth of the words from the Son of God. Both the second Jewish temple, and the city were leveled during the war of 70 AD.

During 73 AD the Jewish leader at Masada said the only thing left of Jerusalem was that which belonged to the Romans.


Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.


The construction of the third temple is found below. What is the current location of the "chief cornerstone" of that temple?

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


He is the One who knows the beginning, and the end.


Praise God, He is alive!

.
 
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Douggg

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Jesus nor any of the disciples compared the temple to the alleged much larger Roman fort (the real temple mount).

The temple was built on the temple mount, which the dome of the Rock now sits.
 
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BABerean2

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Jesus nor any of the disciples compared the temple to the alleged much larger Roman fort (the real temple mount).

The temple was built on the temple mount, which the dome of the Rock now sits.


Those who disagree with Jesus to make their man-made doctrine work are easily corrected by the words from the mouth of the Son of God. Jesus said both the temple and the city would be leveled.


Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.


Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.



Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.


Tacitus was a well known Roman senator, and historian who was a teenager during 70 AD.
(56 AD- 120 AD)
Why would he lie about a "spring of never-failing water" in the Jewish temple?

He is an unbiased witness.


.
 
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Freedm

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Very interesting. Did some searching and came across this image, which I believe is what you're describing.
temple theory.JPG
 
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BABerean2

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Very interesting. Did some searching and came across this image, which I believe is what you're describing.
View attachment 297140

I suspect King Herod added an outer court to the temple, based on the detailed writings of Josephus found in the link below.


Read “Wars of the Jews”, Book 6, chapters 1-7, if you want to understand the temple, and Fort Antonia, and the cloisters that connected them.

Josephus said the eastern temple cloister extended over the Kidron Valley.

The Wars of the Jews by Flavius Josephus

Book 6, Chapter 3
CONCERNING A STRATAGEM THAT WAS DEVISED BY THE JEWS, BY WHICH THEY BURNT MANY OF THE ROMANS; WITH ANOTHER DESCRIPTION OF THE TERRIBLE FAMINE THAT WAS IN THE CITY.
1. BUT now the seditious that were in the temple did every day openly endeavor to beat off the soldiers that were upon the banks, and on the twenty-seventh day of the forenamed month [Panemus or Tamuz] contrived such a stratagem as this: They filled that part of the western cloister (14) which was between the beams, and the roof under them, with dry materials, as also with bitumen and pitch, and then retired from that place, as though they were tired with the pains they had taken; at which procedure of theirs, many of the most inconsiderate among the Romans, who were carried away with violent passions, followed hard after them as they were retiring, and applied ladders to the cloister, and got up to it suddenly; but the prudent part of them, when they understood this unaccountable retreat of the Jews, stood still where they were before. However, the cloister was full of those that were gone up the ladders; at which time the Jews set it all on fire; and as the flame burst out every where on the sudden, the Romans that were out of the danger were seized with a very great consternation, as were those that were in the midst of the danger in the utmost distress. So when they perceived themselves surrounded with the flames, some of them threw themselves down backwards into the city, and some among their enemies [in the temple]; as did many leap down to their own men, and broke their limbs to pieces; but a great number of those that were going to take these violent methods were prevented by the fire; though some prevented the fire by their own swords. However, the fire was on the sudden carried so far as to surround those who would have otherwise perished. As for Caesar himself, he could not, however, but commiserate those that thus perished, although they got up thither without any order for so doing, since there was no way of giving the many relief. Yet was this some comfort to those that were destroyed, that every body might see that person grieve, for whose sake they came to their end; for he cried out openly to them, and leaped up, and exhorted those that were about him to do their utmost to relieve them; So every one of them died cheerfully, as carrying along with him these words and this intention of Caesar as a sepulchral monument. Some there were indeed who retired into the wall of the cloister, which was broad, and were preserved out of the fire, but were then surrounded by the Jews; and although they made resistance against the Jews for a long time, yet were they wounded by them, and at length they all fell down dead.
2. At the last a young man among them, whose name was Longus, became a decoration to this sad affair, and while every one of them that perished were worthy of a memorial, this man appeared to deserve it beyond all the rest. Now the Jews admired this man for his courage, and were further desirous of having him slain; so they persuaded him to come down to them, upon security given him for his life. But Cornelius his brother persuaded him on the contrary, not to tarnish his own glory, nor that of the Roman army. He complied with this last advice, and lifting up his sword before both armies, he slew himself. Yet there was one Artorius among those surrounded by the fire who escaped by his subtlety; for when he had with a loud voice called to him Lucius, one of his fellow soldiers that lay with him in the same tent, and said to him, "I do leave thee heir of all I have, if thou wilt come and receive me." Upon this he came running to receive him readily; Artorius then threw himself down upon him, and saved his own life, while he that received him was dashed so vehemently against the stone pavement by the other’s weight, that he died immediately. This melancholy accident made the Romans sad for a while, but still it made them more upon their guard for the future, and was of advantage to them against the delusions of the Jews, by which they were greatly damaged through their unacquaintedness with the places, and with the nature of the inhabitants. Now this cloister was burnt down as far as John’s tower, which he built in the war he made against Simon over the gates that led to the Xystus. The Jews also cut off the rest of that cloister from the temple, after they had destroyed those that got up to it. But the next day the Romans burnt down the northern cloister entirely, as far as the east cloister, whose common angle joined to the valley that was called Cedron, and was built over it; on which account the depth was frightful. And this was the state of the temple at that time.


.

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Freedm

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So, what you're suggesting is that the entire area that is generally accepted to be the temple area where the temple once stood, is actually the Antonio fortress.

So where then do we get this idea from that it was so as in this photo? Surely this is based on some kind of archeological evidence. It wouldn't be just an assumption, would it?

Rcd48a958ca3ca592ef5ceea9a69472cc
 
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BABerean2

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So, what you're suggesting is that the entire area that is generally accepted to be the temple area where the temple once stood, is actually the Antonio fortress.

So where then do we get this idea from that it was so as in this photo? Surely this is based on some kind of archeological evidence. It wouldn't be just an assumption, would it?

Rcd48a958ca3ca592ef5ceea9a69472cc

Based on section 12 below of the writings of the Roman historian Tacitus, the temple was at the Gihon Spring. Tacitus was a Roman senator, and had been a teenager during 70 AD when the second temple was destroyed.

The Jews
Book Five (1-13) of The Histories by Tacitus


11. So after encamping, as I have said, before the walls of Jerusalem, he paraded his legions in formation before the eyes of the enemy. The Jews, marshalled close under their walls, were in a position to venture further out if they were successful and had a place of refuge ready at hand in case of defeat. Titus sent against them cavalry and some cohorts in battle order, but the encounter was indecisive. Then the enemy gave ground, and for some days thereafter fought a succession of engagements just in front of the gates. Finally, repeated losses drove them behind the walls. The Romans then concentrated on an assault. After all, it seemed beneath them to wait for hunger to do its work on the enemy, and the troops actually asked to be allowed to risk their lives. Some did so because they had real courage, many from mere bravado and a desire for rewards. As for Titus, his imagination dwelt on Rome, wealth and pleasure: it would be long before these dreams were realized if Jerusalem were destined not to fall in the immediate future.
But the city occupied a commanding position, and it had been reinforced by engineering works so massive that they might have rendered even a flat site impregnable. Two lofty hills were enclosed by walls skilfully staggered and forming re-entrant angles designed to expose the flank of an attacker. At the edge of the crags was a sharp drop, and a series of towers dominated the scene, 105 feet high where the rising ground helped, and 135 or 120 feet high on the lower contours. (19) These presented an impressive appearance, and to the distant observer seemed to be on a level. There were further walls inside around the palace, and a conspicuous landmark was the lofty castle of Antonia, so named by Herod in honour of Mark Antony.

12. The Temple was like a citadel and had its own walls, which had been even more laboriously and skilfully constructed than the rest. The porticoes around it constituted in themselves an excellent defensive position. To these advantages must be added a spring of never-failing water, chambers cut in the living rock, and tanks and cisterns for the storage of rainwater. Its builders had foreseen only too well that the strange practices of the Jews would lead to continual fighting. Hence everything was available for a siege, however long. Moreover, after Pompey's capture of Jerusalem, fear and experience taught them many lessons. So taking advantage of the money-grubbing instincts of the Claudian period, they purchased permission to fortify the city, and in the days of peace built walls meant for war. Already the home of a motley concourse, its population had been swollen by the fall of the other Jewish cities, for the most determined partisan leaders escaped to the capital, and thereby added to the turmoil. There were three different leaders and three armies. The long outer perimeter of the walls was held by Simon, the central part of the city by John, and the Temple by Eleazar. John and Simon could rely on numbers and equipment, Eleazar on his strategic position. But it was upon each other that they turned the weapons of battle, ambush and fire, and great stocks of corn went up in flames. Then John sent off a party of men, ostensibly to offer sacrifice but in reality to cut Eleazar and his followers to pieces, thus gaining possession of the Temple. Hence-forward, therefore, Jerusalem was divided between two factions, until, on the approach of the Romans, fighting the foreigner healed the breach between them.

.-------------------------------------------

When Solomon was anointed king the tabernacle was at Gihon.

1Ki 1:38 So Zadok the priest, Nathan the prophet, Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, the Cherethites, and the Pelethites went down and had Solomon ride on King David's mule, and took him to Gihon.
1Ki 1:39 Then Zadok the priest took a horn of oil from the tabernacle and anointed Solomon. And they blew the horn, and all the people said, "Long live King Solomon!"

,
 
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Douggg

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By the way, guys, the Western Wall can't be part the Temple, because Jesus said: "verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
Jesus was speaking about the buildings.

2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The temple mount foundation wall was not prophesied to be destroyed. And is necessary that it was not, in order that the Jews construct the temple sanctuary building which the Antichrist will go into, sit, and claim to have achieved God-hood.

And the foundation wall and courtyard remain as a testament that there was a temple.
 
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BABerean2

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By the way, guys, the Western Wall can't be part the Temple, because Jesus said: "verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

During recent years a coin found underneath the bottom layer of stones in an underground excavation of "The Wailing Wall" was dated between 17 AD -20 AD.

Herod the Great died during 4 BC

Therefore, that wall was built after Jesus had become a man.
It could not be a part of Herod's temple.

Recent discoveries at the "Western Wall":

.
 
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BABerean2

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And the foundation wall and courtyard remain as a testament that there was a temple.


What you are saying does not come from the Bible, and is in direct conflict with the words of Christ in Matthew 24:1-2, and Luke 19:41-44.


.
 
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Douggg

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What you are saying does not come from the Bible, and is in direct conflict with the words of Christ in Matthew 24:1-2, and Luke 19:41-44.


.
Luke 19:41-44 is talking about the city.

Matthew 24:1-2 is taking about the buildings on the temple mount.
 
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BABerean2

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Luke 19:41-44 is talking about the city.

Matthew 24:1-2 is taking about the buildings on the temple mount.

If you can show us the words "the temple mount" in the passage, we might believe you.

Otherwise, it is just one more private interpretation of the text.

We have already proven the temple was at the Gihon Spring in the writings of Roman historian Tacitus.

What did the Roman historian Tacitus say about a "spring of never-failing water" in the temple in section 12 of the passage below? He was a teenager when the temple was destroyed during 70 AD.


The Jews

Book Five (1-13) of The Histories by Tacitus


11. So after encamping, as I have said, before the walls of Jerusalem, he paraded his legions in formation before the eyes of the enemy. The Jews, marshalled close under their walls, were in a position to venture further out if they were successful and had a place of refuge ready at hand in case of defeat. Titus sent against them cavalry and some cohorts in battle order, but the encounter was indecisive. Then the enemy gave ground, and for some days thereafter fought a succession of engagements just in front of the gates. Finally, repeated losses drove them behind the walls. The Romans then concentrated on an assault. After all, it seemed beneath them to wait for hunger to do its work on the enemy, and the troops actually asked to be allowed to risk their lives. Some did so because they had real courage, many from mere bravado and a desire for rewards. As for Titus, his imagination dwelt on Rome, wealth and pleasure: it would be long before these dreams were realized if Jerusalem were destined not to fall in the immediate future.

But the city occupied a commanding position, and it had been reinforced by engineering works so massive that they might have rendered even a flat site impregnable. Two lofty hills were enclosed by walls skilfully staggered and forming re-entrant angles designed to expose the flank of an attacker. At the edge of the crags was a sharp drop, and a series of towers dominated the scene, 105 feet high where the rising ground helped, and 135 or 120 feet high on the lower contours. (19) These presented an impressive appearance, and to the distant observer seemed to be on a level. There were further walls inside around the palace, and a conspicuous landmark was the lofty castle of Antonia, so named by Herod in honour of Mark Antony.


12. The Temple was like a citadel and had its own walls, which had been even more laboriously and skilfully constructed than the rest. The porticoes around it constituted in themselves an excellent defensive position. To these advantages must be added a spring of never-failing water, chambers cut in the living rock, and tanks and cisterns for the storage of rainwater. Its builders had foreseen only too well that the strange practices of the Jews would lead to continual fighting. Hence everything was available for a siege, however long. Moreover, after Pompey's capture of Jerusalem, fear and experience taught them many lessons. So taking advantage of the money-grubbing instincts of the Claudian period, they purchased permission to fortify the city, and in the days of peace built walls meant for war. Already the home of a motley concourse, its population had been swollen by the fall of the other Jewish cities, for the most determined partisan leaders escaped to the capital, and thereby added to the turmoil. There were three different leaders and three armies. The long outer perimeter of the walls was held by Simon, the central part of the city by John, and the Temple by Eleazar. John and Simon could rely on numbers and equipment, Eleazar on his strategic position. But it was upon each other that they turned the weapons of battle, ambush and fire, and great stocks of corn went up in flames. Then John sent off a party of men, ostensibly to offer sacrifice but in reality to cut Eleazar and his followers to pieces, thus gaining possession of the Temple. Hence-forward, therefore, Jerusalem was divided between two factions, until, on the approach of the Romans, fighting the foreigner healed the breach between them.


---------------------------------------------------------------------


The tabernacle was at Gihon when Solomon was anointed king of Israel.


1Ki 1:38 So Zadok the priest, and Nathan the prophet, and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, and the Cherethites, and the Pelethites, went down, and caused Solomon to ride upon king David's mule, and brought him to Gihon.

1Ki 1:39 And Zadok the priest took an horn of oil out of the tabernacle, and anointed Solomon. And they blew the trumpet; and all the people said, God save king Solomon.

----------------------------------------------

You keep attempting to ignore the facts above in order to get your man-made doctrine to work.

The "buildings of the temple" were at the Gihon Spring.

The "Wailing Wall" was not a part of Herod's temple.


.
 
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If you can show us the words "the temple mount" in the passage, we might believe you.

Otherwise, it is just one more private interpretation of the text.


.
The temple buildings were built on the temple platform which leveled the top of the mount, and formed the courtyard.


1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

All that is left is the temple mount foundation retaining wall and the temple platform on which the temple buildings were built.
 
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BABerean2

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All that is left is the temple mount foundation retaining wall and the temple platform on which the temple buildings were built.

A coin dated 17-20 AD found underneath the bottom layer of stones at "The Wailing Wall" has already proven that wall was not a part of Herod's temple, and therefore it can not be a "retaining wall" of the temple.


If your house is destroyed and many years later a coin dated 2005 is found underneath the bottom stone of the foundation, could your house have been built in 1984?


.
 
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BABerean2

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In the YouTube video below Ken Klein discusses the fact that the Gihon Spring is a very rare "siphon spring", which is capable of pumping water up hill into the temple.

Ken Klein discusses the true location of the ancient Jewish temple:



Where was Solomon anointed as King of Israel, and what is special about the water of the Gihon Spring?

Where was the “tabernacle” at that time?


1Ki_1:33 The king also said unto them, Take with you the servants of your lord, and cause Solomon my son to ride upon mine own mule, and bring him down to Gihon:


1Ki 1:38 So Zadok the priest, and Nathan the prophet, and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, and the Cherethites, and the Pelethites, went down, and caused Solomon to ride upon king David's mule, and brought him to Gihon.

1Ki 1:39 And Zadok the priest took an horn of oil out of the tabernacle, and anointed Solomon. And they blew the trumpet; and all the people said, God save king Solomon.


1Ki_1:45 And Zadok the priest and Nathan the prophet have anointed him king in Gihon: and they are come up from thence rejoicing, so that the city rang again. This is the noise that ye have heard.


.
 
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