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When did Stauros become "Cross"??

Duvduv

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What is the traditional unchallenged Christian explanation of how some 28 references to the Greek "stauros" were translated later generations to a "cross"?? And if at least the educated elite who knew Greek themselves knew it was a stake and not a cross, why did the iconography change it into a cross?
It's probably worth noting that the symbology in the book attributed to Josephus refers to the use of cross to crucify criminals under the Hasmonean dynasty. This would be another piece of evidence that the works named for Josephus emerged from a collection of information from sources INCLUDING the church itself that incorporated it in the 4th century or thereafter.
 

Duvduv

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That's because they rely on the Latin translation, "Crux." And of course nowhere in the ancient Jewish texts in any Midrash or either Talmud is there the mention of crucifixion as a form of punishment.
 
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Nihilist Virus

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What is the traditional unchallenged Christian explanation of how some 28 references to the Greek "stauros" were translated later generations to a "cross"?? And if at least the educated elite who knew Greek themselves knew it was a stake and not a cross, why did the iconography change it into a cross?
It's probably worth noting that the symbology in the book attributed to Josephus refers to the use of cross to crucify criminals under the Hasmonean dynasty. This would be another piece of evidence that the works named for Josephus emerged from a collection of information from sources INCLUDING the church itself that incorporated it in the 4th century or thereafter.

Thanks for this; I was totally unaware of this torture device.

As a quick speculation, I wonder if this is related to Constantine. It's widely known that Christianity would have fizzled out if Constantine hadn't had his vision of a cross. I wonder if the Christians of the time had no iconography of the crucifixion; if they did symbolize their movement with the stauros, it wouldn't make sense that Constantine's vision of a cross would make him think of Christianity.
 
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Radagast

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What is the traditional unchallenged Christian explanation of how some 28 references to the Greek "stauros" were translated later generations to a "cross"??

Because in Roman times, the Greek stauros meant "cross." We have both pictures and descriptions to support this.
 
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ViaCrucis

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What is the traditional unchallenged Christian explanation of how some 28 references to the Greek "stauros" were translated later generations to a "cross"?? And if at least the educated elite who knew Greek themselves knew it was a stake and not a cross, why did the iconography change it into a cross?
It's probably worth noting that the symbology in the book attributed to Josephus refers to the use of cross to crucify criminals under the Hasmonean dynasty. This would be another piece of evidence that the works named for Josephus emerged from a collection of information from sources INCLUDING the church itself that incorporated it in the 4th century or thereafter.

The Roman instrument of crucifixion was known as a crux, from which we get the word "cross". Roman crucifixion was done using a variety of methods, the simplest was known as a crux simplex, consisting solely of an upright stake or gibbet without any crossbeam. Others involved affixing a crossbeam to the gibbet, usually in a T or t shape. Another method was an X-shaped cross of criss-crossing gibbets. The reason why the traditional depiction of Jesus' cross is T or t-shaped is because of several reasons, both historical and biblical:

1) The Romans liked efficiency, and so tended to reuse gibbets, and so once they were set up, they were left there. The victim would then be hoisted along with a crossbeam (if a crossbeam was used) and then the crossbeam affixed to the gibbet.

2) The Gospels say Jesus carried His cross to the place of execution, and so what likely happened was that Jesus carried the crossbeam. The later medieval imagery of Jesus carrying a fully constructed cross is unlikely, as it is also unlikely that He carried only the gibbet.

The Greek stauros was used to refer to all the various forms of the Roman crux, from the crux simplex to the T, t, and X-shaped forms. The word stauros itself doesn't tell us what shape Jesus' cross was; but it can be inferred based on both what we know about Roman crucifixion practices and what the Gospels themselves say that Jesus' cross involved a crossbeam. This has also been how Jesus' crucifixion has always been depicted by Christians, as either a T or t-shaped cross (rather than a simplex or X-shaped cross). Early Christian writers spoke of how Jesus' instrument of crucifixion looked like the Greek letter Tau ('T'), and even anti-Christian graffiti used a T/t-shape.

It is ultimately not that important one way or another, but the most likely scenario--based on the information we have--is that the T/t-shape was used. Even if it wasn't, it isn't theologically significant.

Insisting that stauros can only refer to an upright stake or crux simplex is simply inaccurate.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Duvduv

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Sounds like the Witnesses made a big deal out of it because of the crucifixes, jewelry and sign of the cross, which they consider idolatrous. But why did the Catholic Church choose the commonly known cross as the iconic symbol in later times?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Sounds like the Witnesses made a big deal out of it because of the crucifixes, jewelry and sign of the cross, which they consider idolatrous. But why did the Catholic Church choose the commonly known cross as the iconic symbol in later times?

A T/t-shaped cross was already widely accepted long before Christians themselves were depicting Christ's crucifixion in art and iconography, so when Christians did start depicting Jesus' crucifixion it made sense to use what was already accepted. Why draw a square wheel when it is already established that wheels are round?

As I noted, even early anti-Christian graffiti depicts Jesus crucified on a t-cross, the most famous is the Alexamenos Grafito:

Images don't seem to be working, at least yet, in the new CF update, so I'm just going to link to the image instead: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Alexorig.jpg

This graffiti depicts a man with the head of a donkey hanging on a cross, with clearly outstretched arms, with a man worshiping the figure with the words, "Alexamenos worships his god". The inscription is intended to mock a Christian named Alexamenos by depicting Jesus with the head of a donkey. This graffiti is dated to the 2nd century.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Did the Church ever represent the crucifixion on a pole, or describe it officially as a pole? ("When Christ was put on the Pole")?

Not to my knowledge. Greek writers used stauros, Latin writers used crux; and they referred to the same thing. Tertullian, the first Christian who wrote chiefly in Latin, mentions the shape of the cross as being in the form of the Greek letter Tau and Latin 'T'. This can be found in his work against Marcion, Book III, ch. XXII. The explicit context is the sign of the cross made upon the forehead, one of the most ancient Christian devotional practices we know about.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Why did the texts get written first in Greek and later Latin? After all, the Romans were always in control, not Greeks.
And why would the icons always be officially the Cross as we know it?

Tertullian was from North Africa, Carthage specifically, in what is modern day Tunisia. He spoke and wrote in Latin. Greek was the predominant language of the eastern half of the Roman Empire and also served as the lingua franca of the empire, both East and West. Latin was the imperial language, the language of the Senate, of Roman law, etc. Latin was spoken in the western half of the Empire, but Greek was also used for widespread communication.

The New Testament was written in Greek, specifically the common Greek known as Koine, because that was a language almost everyone could communicate in throughout the Empire. Christians predominantly wrote in Greek, even in the West, for that reason. Tertullian is the first known Christian writer who wrote in Latin, though there were many Latin writers who came after him, especially in late Antiquity (such as Ambrose, Augustine, and Jerome). Many originally Greek writings were later translated into Latin, just as Scripture was translated into Latin from Greek (the Old Latin manuscripts, as well as the later Vulgate of Jerome). As the Roman Empire's power waned in late Antiquity and the early Medieval period, the use of Greek tended to be restricted to the Eastern Roman Empire (what we would come to call the Byzantine Empire), and local Christian writers began to write chiefly in their own native and local tongue and dialects: Latin in the West, Syriac and Coptic in the East. Just as Armenian Christians wrote in Armenian, Ethiopian Christians wrote in Ge'ez and later Amharic; or even how many Christians in the middle east use Arabic after the Arabization of the region. But during the height of Roman hegemony over the Mediterranean, Greek was the language of trade, commerce, diplomacy, and inter-cultural communication. That's why Greek was the favorite writing of the time, not just for Christians, but people in general.

And as I said, when Christians began depicting Jesus' crucifixion, the shape of the cross was already firmly established in Christian thought and tradition. They already were convinced that Jesus was crucified on a T/t-shaped cross, because that's how Christian writers described it, and its the most reasonable inference to make given the historical and biblical material.

The reason why some modern groups insist that Jesus was crucified on an upright stake alone (a crux simplex) rather than one with a crossbeam as traditionally depicted is because of an anti-Catholic bias that was at its height in the 19th century (and early 20th century) when those groups came into existence (such as the Jehovah's Witnesses). It was part of a larger cultural anti-Catholicism that existed both in the United States and the United Kingdom at the time in what were predominantly Protestant cultures. It was this environment which also produced Alexander Hislop's mess of a work known as The Two Babylons which largely contains ideas Hislop pulled straight from his hindquarters without any basis in fact whatsoever, as well xenophobic movements such as Nativism in the United States. This cultural anti-Catholicism became embedded in many of the Neo-Protestant sects and movements that originated in the time period, which was also often coupled with romantic notions of Christian Primitivism and Restorationism. Hence the birth of movements and groups such as Mormonism, Adventism, Christadelphianism, the Stone-Campbell Movement, and the Jehovah's Witnesses; not to mention more "mainstream" Primitivist movements within established Protestant movements, such as Landmarkism.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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So how did the representation move from the T to the cross as we know it? And the added cross beam of the Orthodox?

You can still find T-crosses used in Christian art. It's also sensible that there may have been some gibbet showing above the crossbeam for there to be room to place the sentence plaque/note. Crucifixion victims often had their crimes posted with them on their cross, in the case of Jesus the Gospels present Jesus as a traitorous would-be king, reading "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews" (the intent was mockery, both of Jesus, as well as the Jews); apparently written in Aramaic, Greek, and in Latin.

Something like this can be seen as an example here, where the shape of the cross is mostly T-shaped, with still the notice posted above the crossbeam: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...on_(School_of_Brugge,_circle_of_Memmling).jpg

In other cases, crosses of all sorts and styles have been used. Examples include the readily familiar Latin or "Plain" Cross familiar to most Westerners, but the Orthodox stylized cross often contains two extra horizontal bars to represent the placard and a foot rest (in the West Jesus is often depicted with a single nail through both feet, whereas in the East two nails are used, one for each foot). Another significant symbol used by the Orthodox is the Patriarchal Cross which is generally used only by Patriarchs of the Orthodox Church, this has two bars, a slightly shorter horizontal bar above the crossbeam, likely to represent the placard. It's stabilization mostly.

Other crosses in Christian uses also exist in different contexts. For example the cross of St. Peter is associated with the Bishop of Rome (that is, the Pope), it is an upside-down cross based on the ancient tradition that St. Peter was crucified upside-down. The cross of St. Andrew is an X-shaped cross, as tradition says Andrew the Apostle was crucified on an X-shaped cross; it is notable as one of the major heraldic symbols of Scotland, as St. Andrew is the the patron saint of Scotland--which is also why you can see it in the Union Jack.

https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31ESDnWr63L._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...svg/1200px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png

-CryptoLutheran
 
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