Whats your opinion?

[interpreter]

May God have mercy on your soul.

Because I took part in the Viet Nam war? I will be rewarded in heaven for that.
My point is, Jesus condoned the death penalty (In Luke 19:27 and other verses).

 

[TheReasoner]

Because I took part in the Viet Nam war? I will be rewarded in heaven for that.
My point is, Jesus condoned the death penalty (In Luke 19:27 and other verses).

Ah yes, "Jesus thought as I do!" a common argument from supporters or opposers of anything from slavery, via taxation to death penalty, war, economic policy or racial questions.YOU read your bible that way. This does not mean you are right in your interpretation (After all many people understand it completely differently). And even if you are right this does not mean you are right in your opinion as it rests on the authority and veracity of the bible. And frankly, I think there is no real reason to think the bible is a good source of morality, facts, ethics or anything else, apart from a few good stories. Bloody, violent, horrible stories. Such as genocides, horrible rape stories and the like. God apparently killed everything that moved on this earth in the flood. He told the Israelites to slaughter everyone in the nations they conquered as another example. This is the stuff of Hollywood, war novels or post apocalyptic ones. It SHOULD be the stuff of the ancient past. Yet for some reason some people cling to these horrible stories as templates for their lives. Or they say thay do, but fail to read the book they profess to follow. Thankfully.

 

[florida2]

What's your problem? We are clearly commanded to kill the enemies of Jesus, and that's what the US does. The point is, Jesus is OK with the death penalty.

We are commanded to LOVE.

That's it.

Blowing someone's brains out because you may perceive someone is an 'enemy of Jesus' (how do you define that?) does not come into the equation.

 

[TheReasoner]

We are commanded to LOVE.

That's it.

Blowing someone's brains out because you may perceive someone is an 'enemy of Jesus' (how do you define that?) does not come into the equation.

As much as I agree with you, Florida2, far from all christians seem to do so. Your viewpoint is clearly in line with what my own was as a christian, and I maintain that position without believing there is any divine commandment demanding it of me today. However, there are many verses in the bible where violence is quite significantly endorsed directly (as in the call for death penalty for minor perceived crimes, the sale of offspring as slaves, or extermination of entire nations) or indirectly (By speaking of atrocities without any form of condemnation).
Christians today are the ones who keep pushing for discrimination of homosexuals. It tends to be christians who want borders closed to immigration, and who work against universal healthcare in the states. Just to bring up a few examples. Yes, plenty of christians are as you describe loving and kind people. Who genuinely seek to do good and who also DO good. We can probably make a long list of such people, famous or not. But, we can also make a long list of christians who are anything but. And both sides (it is an excessive simplification to say there are only two sides, I know) tend to claim they are right because the bible supports THEIR view. In many cases both sides are right, too. The bible may be said to support many different things if the reader only wants it to.

I applaud the viewpoint you seem to have, that love is your primary purpose, and I would agree that this would be Jesus of Nazareth's core teaching. It would seem not everyone agrees with us on that though. Not in practice, anyway.

 

[Armoured]

Because I took part in the Viet Nam war? I will be rewarded in heaven for that.
My point is, Jesus condoned the death penalty (In Luke 19:27 and other verses).

What is the heavenly reward for having been in Vietnam?

 

[Desk trauma]

What is the heavenly reward for having been in Vietnam?

An existence in a universe where the war never happened?

 

[Armoured]

An existence in a universe where the war never happened?

But then there'd be no need for armour! You can see why I'm conflicted...

 

[interpreter]

We are commanded to LOVE.

That's it.

Blowing someone's brains out because you may perceive someone is an 'enemy of Jesus' (how do you define that?) does not come into the equation.

Read Luke 19:27 where an enemy of Jesus is defined as someone who doesn't want Jesus ruling over them (through Christian nations). We are commanded to kill them.

 

[Armoured]

Read Luke 19:27 where an enemy of Jesus is defined as someone who doesn't want Jesus ruling over them (through Christian nations). We are commanded to kill them.

Context, what's that?

The Parable of the Ten Minas

11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’

14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’

15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’

17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’

18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’

19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’

20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’

22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’

24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’

25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’

26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

 

[Desk trauma]

Read Luke 19:27 where an enemy of Jesus is defined as someone who doesn't want Jesus ruling over them (through Christian nations). We are commanded to kill them.

I qualify as an enemy of Jesus by that definition, when should I expect the assault?

 

[drjean]

Originally Posted by interpreter

Read Luke 19:27 where an enemy of Jesus is defined as someone who doesn't want Jesus ruling over them (through Christian nations). We are commanded to kill them.
​

No we aren't.
That is a parable and the person who will destroy the enemies of Christ is the Christ, not us... that is not our responsibility in Christianity (though it is in Islam, to kill us the infidels.)

There is a difference between killing and murdering, also. While our laws allow us to put certain people to death, I no longer (and haven't for a long time) condoned the death penalty in general. Where there is positive evidence of someone evil murdering another, yes, put him/her to death. But there are far too many people in prison who committed no crime. And with the way the world is going (NWO etc) for all we know WE will be the ones in prison on death row for no real crime except believing in Jesus the Christ and rejecting the satanic powers in authority.

 

[interpreter]

No we aren't.
That is a parable and the person who will destroy the enemies of Christ is the Christ, not us... that is not our responsibility in Christianity (though it is in Islam, to kill us the infidels.)

There is a difference between killing and murdering, also. While our laws allow us to put certain people to death, I no longer (and haven't for a long time) condoned the death penalty in general. Where there is positive evidence of someone evil murdering another, yes, put him/her to death. But there are far too many people in prison who committed no crime. And with the way the world is going (NWO etc) for all we know WE will be the ones in prison on death row for no real crime except believing in Jesus the Christ and rejecting the satanic powers in authority.

Wrong. Jesus is the king of the parable.
Jesus doesn't kill anyone. His followers carry out the death penalty.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The vast majority of experts in this field, do not believe the death penalty is a deterent.

Criminologists' Views on Deterrence and the Death Penalty​

A recent survey of the most leading criminologists in the country from found that the overwhelming majority did not believe that the death penalty is a proven deterrent to homicide. Eighty-eight percent of the country’s top criminologists do not believe the death penalty acts as a deterrent to homicide, according to a new study published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology and authored by Professor Michael Radelet, Chair of the Department of Sociology at the University of Colorado-Boulder, and Traci Lacock, also at Boulder.
Similarly, 87% of the expert criminologists believe that abolition of the death penalty would not have any significant effect on murder rates. In addition, 75% of the respondents agree that “debates about the death penalty distract Congress and state legislatures from focusing on real solutions to crime problems.”
The survey relied on questionnaires completed by the most pre-eminent criminologists in the country, including Fellows in the American Society of Criminology; winners of the American Society of Criminology’s prestigious Southerland Award; and recent presidents of the American Society of Criminology. Respondents were not asked for their personal opinion about the death penalty, but instead to answer on the basis of their understandings of the empirical research.

Facts about Deterrence and the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

Many 'experts' blind themselves to what the rest of the elephant looks like.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Who are you to judge? I don't know, for someone who claims the enemies of Jesus should be killed, I got the feeling judging others, sort of came natural to you.

No worries. The enemies of Jesus will be killed.......by Jesus.

 

[Joykins]

Context, what's that?

Parable of the talents or minas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An analogue of Herod Archelaus is probably not intended to be symbolic of Jesus?

 

[bhsmte]

No worries. The enemies of Jesus will be killed.......by Jesus.

How do you determine who the enemies of Jesus are?

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

How do you determine who the enemies of Jesus are?

We don't. He does. Simple criteria: Belief.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Read Luke 19:27 where an enemy of Jesus is defined as someone who doesn't want Jesus ruling over them (through Christian nations). We are commanded to kill them.

Jesus did uphold the death penalty, but not in this verse. The time frame of the parable in Luke 19 is at the return of Christ, a yet future event. See verse 15:

15 "And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then (and only then) he commanded these..(to be killed).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How do you determine who the enemies of Jesus are?

He will determine that, when he returns. (see post #138).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Here is where Jesus validates the death penalty:


Matthew 15:3-5

"But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me";

and,

Mark 7:9-11

"And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free."